Would you fire Gannon?

[BirdGangThing]

All I know is that the churn of HCs over the history of the franchise in AZ has led us to this point. When do we try something different?

like lock all the hc candidates in the same room with a 15' ladder as the only escape

 

[kerouac9]

All I know is that the churn of HCs over the history of the franchise in AZ has led us to this point. When do we try something different?

Can you think of a head coach who was as big a failure as Gannon has been for three seasons and then turned it around for consistent success?

Kyle Shanahan was 10-22 through two seasons then went 13-3. Bill Belicheck was 20-28 through his first three seasons in Cleveland.

I don’t think our bad ownership makes good coaches mid. I think our bad ownership repels good coaches. If JG has a grand scheme to make us consistently successful, he’s certainly slow-playing it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Stick with a loser showing bad traits as a coach? Hmm...

Or is being a close loser better than being a not-close loser?

 

[Chopper0080]

Can you think of a head coach who was as big a failure as Gannon has been for three seasons and then turned it around for consistent success?

Kyle Shanahan was 10-22 through two seasons then went 13-3. Bill Belicheck was 20-28 through his first three seasons in Cleveland.

I don’t think our bad ownership makes good coaches mid. I think our bad ownership repels good coaches. If JG has a grand scheme to make us consistently successful, he’s certainly slow-playing it.

No. And that isn't a depressing deep dive that I want to really explore.

My personal issue is that there are more things that I dislike (don't believe in) more than Gannon. Kyler is not a winning QB, and his ineptitude had more to do with the Titans loss than Gannon, IMO. Bidwill is an awful owner that exudes failure. Monti chose a plan to punt the 2023 season like he somehow had the resume to earn the right to throw away seasons. I also think they have had the worst injury luck in relation to players they needed to fill key roles. They also have been competitive in every game they have played this year so they do seem close.

All of that is cope. 100%. I don't want to give Monti another chance to mess up a HC hire and then fire him in two years. I want a chance to see the young players we drafted play in the system there were drafted to play in. I pretty much believe that the next HC they hire is going to be the next Kliff who was the next Arians and then he will be fired and they will hire the next Gannon, who was already the next Wilks.

All inexperienced. All learning. All climbing Everest when they think they are trying to summit a local 14er.

 

[Proteus]

No. And that isn't a depressing deep dive that I want to really explore.

My personal issue is that there are more things that I dislike (don't believe in) more than Gannon. Kyler is not a winning QB, and his ineptitude had more to do with the Titans loss than Gannon, IMO. Bidwill is an awful owner that exudes failure. Monti chose a plan to punt the 2023 season like he somehow had the resume to earn the right to throw away seasons. I also think they have had the worst injury luck in relation to players they needed to fill key roles. They also have been competitive in every game they have played this year so they do seem close.

All of that is cope. 100%. I don't want to give Monti another chance to mess up a HC hire and then fire him in two years. I want a chance to see the young players we drafted play in the system there were drafted to play in. I pretty much believe that the next HC they hire is going to be the next Kliff who was the next Arians and then he will be fired and they will hire the next Gannon, who was already the next Wilks.

All inexperienced. All learning. All climbing Everest when they think they are trying to summit a local 14er.

When would JG have to at least have a .500 season or better or be fired? How long would JG have before the team has to make the playoffs or be fired?
I'm not a fan of rebuilds lasting more than 3 more seasons and I really don't like rebuilds taking more than 4 seasons.

 

[Harry]

And I guess that's the issue with discussing it now. At this point, it doesn't seem like Gannon has lost the locker room. When he does, I'm fine with making a move.

I would put more stock in this if I saw better veteran leadership on the team. Campbell just got here. Baker is perhaps having his worst season. Connor is out. Where’s the guy who holds everyone accountable. Virtually every power team has at least one. The Cards have not cultivated a leader. That tells me the culture is flawed. It’s not surprising there is no internal dispute.

 

[Harry]

Keep in mind getting Arians was a fluke. How many times does a winning coach get made available by his team? I will credit Bidwill for seizing the opportunity, but it’s unlikely to happen again.

 

[kerouac9]

I would put more stock in this if I saw better veteran leadership on the team. Campbell just got here. Baker is perhaps having his worst season. Connor is out. Where’s the guy who holds everyone accountable. Virtually every power team has at least one. The Cards have not cultivated a leader. That tells me the culture is flawed. It’s not surprising there is no internal dispute.

PJJ stood up for his teammate

 

[Stout]

Or is being a close loser better than being a not-close loser?

A loser is a loser. Listen, if they were close losses as in "man, we're still rebuilding and almost keep completing the comeback," it would be one thing. Close losses as in "man, this is year three and they are coaching scared and stupid to lose games at the end" is unacceptable. But hey, if you love it, you do you. You can enjoy and support that football. Not me.

 

[Chopper0080]

When would JG have to at least have a .500 season or better or be fired? How long would JG have before the team has to make the playoffs or be fired?
I'm not a fan of rebuilds lasting more than 3 more seasons and I really don't like rebuilds taking more than 4 seasons.

I guess I will answer a question with a question. Why give a HC a 5 year deal if you are going to fire him in 3? Why would you keep a GM whose first HC hire is someone you are firing early?

 

[Stout]

I guess I will answer a question with a question. Why give a HC a 5 year deal if you are going to fire him in 3? Why would you keep a GM whose first HC hire is someone you are firing early?

I'll pose a question to your questions: If we get more of the same next season, do you fire one or both? How long do you put up with horrible losing football?

 

[Chopper0080]

I'll pose a question to your questions: If we get more of the same next season, do you fire one or both? How long do you put up with horrible losing football?

I'm ok with firing both this year if the decision is that this leadership isn't working out. Certainly next year.

I am not interested in keeping just one of them to try again with a different counterpart.

 

[kerouac9]

I guess I will answer a question with a question. Why give a HC a 5 year deal if you are going to fire him in 3? Why would you keep a GM whose first HC hire is someone you are firing early?

Well there are tons of externalities around contract length that don’t have anything to do with expectations.

The second point is a good one. I’m less convinced that Monti is a guy who can match talent to system than I am of Gannon being a guy who can instill a culture and generally not be embarrassing.

Can he assemble a staff? Outlook not so good, although two months ago people were fearing openly that we’d lose both coordinators to head coaching jobs.

 

[Stout]

I'm ok with firing both this year if the decision is that this leadership isn't working out. Certainly next year.

I am not interested in keeping just one of them to try again with a different counterpart.

So not firing Gannon unless Monti goes? I can see that, as that would give Monti, who has for sure been sub-par, another three seasons minimum with a new head coach and a new QB. I'm not interested in that. Firing Monti and not Gannon would leave us with a bad lame duck. Yes, fire either or neither. I agree.

 

[phillycard]

I'm ok with firing both this year if the decision is that this leadership isn't working out. Certainly next year.

I am not interested in keeping just one of them to try again with a different counterpart.

All or nothing. Agreed 1000%

 

[Krangodnzr]

Compare the Bears’ overall record to our overall record.

Since when?

 

[Harry]

I think the question comes down to where does Bidwill place the blame? Is he finally over Murray? If so he may think since he’s paid for him Gannon deserves a shot with a new QB.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I'm ok with firing both this year if the decision is that this leadership isn't working out. Certainly next year.

I am not interested in keeping just one of them to try again with a different counterpart.

Do we trust MB to hire the right guys?

More misses than hits

 

[Stout]

I think the question comes down to where does Bidwill place the blame? Is he finally over Murray? If so he may think since he’s paid for him Gannon deserves a shot with a new QB.

You're probably right. But that means multiple more seasons with Gannon and Monti

 

[Chopper0080]

Do we trust MB to hire the right guys?

More misses than hits

No but we can't get rid of him.

 

[phillycard]

When would JG have to at least have a .500 season or better or be fired? How long would JG have before the team has to make the playoffs or be fired?
I'm not a fan of rebuilds lasting more than 3 more seasons and I really don't like rebuilds taking more than 4 seasons.

Especially in THIS current era of NFL football. Turnarounds are expected, not wished for. Didn't think the Colts and the Patriots would both leave us in the dust. Had you asked me before the season started if we'd be worse than them at this point in the season, I would have looked at you like you were crazy.

 

[az jam]

I’m not a Gannon fan. He acts like a smart-ass to the press. He and his staff are poor game mangers. If this isn’t turned around he should be gone at the end of the season along with his staff.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Can you think of a head coach who was as big a failure as Gannon has been for three seasons and then turned it around for consistent success?

Kyle Shanahan was 10-22 through two seasons then went 13-3. Bill Belicheck was 20-28 through his first three seasons in Cleveland.

I don’t think our bad ownership makes good coaches mid. I think our bad ownership repels good coaches. If JG has a grand scheme to make us consistently successful, he’s certainly slow-playing it.

How quickly Gannon imploded the second there were expectations is the disqualifying thing for me. Lot of coaches around the league can get borderline roster league guys to play with their hair on fire, it’s easy to motivate a guy who’s playing for a paycheck. A lot harder when there’s a microscope on the organization and your players don’t really “need” you.

I keep going back to how BA won here even with the trainwreck GM and same ownership. Ownership obviously sucks but you know you’re legit if you go into Seattle and beat the LOB every year even with Drew Stanton.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think the question comes down to where does Bidwill place the blame? Is he finally over Murray? If so he may think since he’s paid for him Gannon deserves a shot with a new QB.

Bidwill doesn’t throw down that $100k fine if he wanted to work with Gannon long term.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I’ll also say it’s a tad concerning that Monti seems to be worse at drafting than a dude who was hammered six nights a week.

Or it was Jason Licht all along.