Would Brian Flores really be all that bad??

Should Cardinals hire Brian Flores as Head Coach?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 29.1%
  • No

    Votes: 50 42.7%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 33 28.2%

  • Total voters
    117

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
Surely the absolute worst way to hire a HC is just based on their record as a coordinator? If not why do teams bother with interviews? Just send job offers to Eric Bienemy and Shane Steichen right away.

If there is an endless list of good coordinators that made poor HC's (we contributed extensive to that list) then surely there are also coordinators with mediocre records who would make great HC's?

The skill sets probably don't even 50% overlap, but it's become a lazy tradition.

Would rather a coach with a great record as a coordinator but mediocre leadership qualities or a great leader with a mediocre record as a coordinator?
Personally I’d rather hire a coach that I don’t have to make excuses for. Novel idea, I know.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
There are very few instances in any industry where the talent pool is small where you get your first choice.

Frank Reich wasn't the Panthers first choice, they were hot for Ben Johnson but he decided to stay in Detroit.

I'm not even sure Ryans is the Texans first choice. They were apparently very hot for John Gannon but he wasn't interested.
This is a defeatist attitude. Someone gets their first choice. Why just abandon that possibility? Oh, because it’s a bad organization. And you’re fine with that, we get it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
There are very few instances in any industry where the talent pool is small where you get your first choice.

Frank Reich wasn't the Panthers first choice, they were hot for Ben Johnson but he decided to stay in Detroit.

I'm not even sure Ryans is the Texans first choice. They were apparently very hot for John Gannon but he wasn't interested.
I also love the fact that Brit tells us we don’t know who the favorites are for the cardinals but he knows who were the likely or hot choices for other franchises. Lol. The entertainment value . . .
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
?

I think it's well unfair to criticize Glenn for a "mediocre record". That franchise has been going through a massive rebuild. You put Lou Anarumo, John Gannon etc in Detroit the last 2 years and the results would be similar.
Next level excuse making.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
True. That’s why I’m not going to have a strong opinion on which guys would be the best for the job. We’re all just guessing.
Agree. I’m a wait and see at this point because truth be told, almost no one in ASFN is really familiar with these guys. Except Brit who doesn’t like anamuno’s leadership. Lol.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
What? Of course they all are. That's why they are interviewing.

You asked a version of "Why are we interviewing Glenn when he's not been great at the Lions?" well it's because people think he has the qualities to be a good HC.

Nobody seems to be asking the same about Mike Kafka's stats who's offense was 18th in yards and 15th in points. 26th in passing and 24th in passing TD's.
Really? I think many posters aren’t enamored off Kafka as a candidate.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
I can paint a better picture for you, too...Given the BFlo lawsuit, if the Cardinals, or any team for that matter, runs right out and hires him, the optics would just be "well they only did it because of the lawsuit"...We even saw reports of that, when his name came up, with guys like Florio pointing out the obvious legal advantages of Mike hiring Flores. However, if they actually take their time and exhaust all realistic HC options (so far I haven't seen them interested in anyone that would just be a fluff interview) and hire BFlo, a real argument can be made he was the best man for the job. Because Mike really liked him back in 2018, it's doubtful they even need a 2nd interview this time around.

Anyway, that's just how I see things.
:rolleyes:
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
Not a single other team has hired a coordinator or other staff member yet. Colts are no cometition. What's a couple more days?

There won't be any more interviews after tomorrow and by riday I expect we have an announcement.
Uh, a couple more days for them to discuss staffing with guys we might want. These guys aren’t all just waiting to see if the cards OC or DC or position coaching slots open up for them lol.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,434
Reaction score
27,651
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Though it doesn’t always work, I would think a cerebral coach who failed on the first go round would be much better the second (see Carroll and belicheck). I think he’s the type of personality this team needs. I also think he did a nice job the first time around - wasn’t a total failure despite his ownership working against him.

This is the story in favor of Flores, to be sure. We don’t know what is plan for offense would be, and how he solved that.

My preference is to win games; I think we have so much invested in the offense currently that Flores represents a bigger rebuild than I’d prefer. If you can guarantee we were as relevant as Seattle has been the past decade I’d take it tho.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
10,028
Reaction score
11,540
Location
York, PA
Making pre-excuses for the worst resume candidate is high level Brit work.
I understand your point, and it's a valid one. But, I did watch a lot of Detroit football last year, as I love the aggressiveness that Campbell has added to that franchise. And Glenn's D was very good the last 6-8 games of the year. I won't sit here and say that it means that Glenn will make a great HC. But, if we don't hire the guy, I'll be excited to watch that Lion's D when next season starts.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,223
Reaction score
53,636
Location
SoCal
I understand your point, and it's a valid one. But, I did watch a lot of Detroit football last year, as I love the aggressiveness that Campbell has added to that franchise. And Glenn's D was very good the last 6-8 games of the year. I won't sit here and say that it means that Glenn will make a great HC. But, if we don't hire the guy, I'll be excited to watch that Lion's D when next season starts.
Man, hiring a guy based on 6-8 games of success would be next to hiring a fired college coach for the height of cardinaldom.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
10,028
Reaction score
11,540
Location
York, PA
Man, hiring a guy based on 6-8 games of success would be next to hiring a fired college coach for the height of cardinaldom.
Your point is 100% accurate, but never forget that we once hired a college coach who hadn’t coached a game in 15 years lol (Bud Wilkinson). So anything is possible. I certainly didn’t want Glenn, but I’m not certain he could have been any worse than Kliff. Still would have been a Bidwillian bad hire.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,879
Location
Colorado
This is the story in favor of Flores, to be sure. We don’t know what is plan for offense would be, and how he solved that.

My preference is to win games; I think we have so much invested in the offense currently that Flores represents a bigger rebuild than I’d prefer. If you can guarantee we were as relevant as Seattle has been the past decade I’d take it tho.
If Flores is hired people better come to grips with some truths real quick.

1 - Offense is probably going to be ugly. Dude couldn't figure it out in three seasons in Miami. I don't know what a year in Pittsburgh does to change that.

2 - Kyler is probably gone in two seasons. Flores loves the try-hards and Kyler isn't that. These two are oil and water. Kyler isn't going to stick around on a bad to mediocre team with an offense that doesn't have a plan. Flores is going to struggle with a QB whose nature is to slide short of the sticks on 3rd down to protect himself.

3 - Flores is likely going to rub some players the wrong way, and potentially good ones. His personality was overwhelming to some guys in Miami and I don't know what has changed.

And for the "we don't know" crowd, none of this is made up, it comes Flores's HC history that ended just over one year ago.
 
OP
OP
BirdGangThing

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
12,814
Reaction score
16,548
Location
Arcadia
If Flores is hired people better come to grips with some truths real quick.

1 - Offense is probably going to be ugly. Dude couldn't figure it out in three seasons in Miami. I don't know what a year in Pittsburgh does to change that.

2 - Kyler is probably gone in two seasons. Flores loves the try-hards and Kyler isn't that. These two are oil and water. Kyler isn't going to stick around on a bad to mediocre team with an offense that doesn't have a plan. Flores is going to struggle with a QB whose nature is to slide short of the sticks on 3rd down to protect himself.

3 - Flores is likely going to rub some players the wrong way, and potentially good ones. His personality was overwhelming to some guys in Miami and I don't know what has changed.

And for the "we don't know" crowd, none of this is made up, it comes Flores's HC history that ended just over one year ago.
If Kyler doesn't make it with the Arizona Cardinals Kyler will be the next RGIII. No other teams will pick him up as a starter unless it's a temporary place holder. If Kyler wants to be successful in the NFL he has to do it with the Arizona Cardinals - and with whoever the next coach is.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,434
Reaction score
27,651
Location
Gilbert, AZ
3 - Flores is likely going to rub some players the wrong way, and potentially good ones. His personality was overwhelming to some guys in Miami and I don't know what has changed.

To be fair, how many "good" players do we have on our roster right now where I should be concerned about this? Budda is the only Pro Bowler on the roster that's home grown. DeAndre probably leaves, and if he doesn't I don't think he's gonna get shook by any head coach talking about accountability.

I like D.J. Humphries, but I don't really care if he doesn't get along with the head coach, either.

The guy who jumped to mind was Isaiah Simmons. I really think he didn't love what Bill Davis was saying in the LB room and decided he'd just roll with the DBs. I don't think that would fly in Flores' world, but I don't think that a happy Isaiah Simmons is a top concern for an Arizona Cardinals fan, either.

If Kyler doesn't make it with the Arizona Cardinals Kyler will be the next RGIII. No other teams will pick him up as a starter unless it's a temporary place holder. If Kyler wants to be successful in the NFL he has to do it with the Arizona Cardinals - and with whoever the next coach is.
RG3 was the Week 1 starter for an extremely bad Cleveland team after leaving Washington in 2016. He'd get another chance with someone. Probably Dallas or Houston.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,879
Location
Colorado
To be fair, how many "good" players do we have on our roster right now where I should be concerned about this? Budda is the only Pro Bowler on the roster that's home grown. DeAndre probably leaves, and if he doesn't I don't think he's gonna get shook by any head coach talking about accountability.

I like D.J. Humphries, but I don't really care if he doesn't get along with the head coach, either.

The guy who jumped to mind was Isaiah Simmons. I really think he didn't love what Bill Davis was saying in the LB room and decided he'd just roll with the DBs. I don't think that would fly in Flores' world, but I don't think that a happy Isaiah Simmons is a top concern for an Arizona Cardinals fan, either.


RG3 was the Week 1 starter for an extremely bad Cleveland team after leaving Washington in 2016. He'd get another chance with someone. Probably Dallas or Houston.
I agree that these matter to a varying degree. Out of all the candidates I think Flores probably has the highest floor. I don't believe that we will awful just like the Dolphins weren't awful.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,537
Reaction score
12,417
I agree that these matter to a varying degree. Out of all the candidates I think Flores probably has the highest floor. I don't believe that we will awful just like the Dolphins weren't awful.
Hopefully the goal is more than to be out of the dregs, but I guess that alone would be progress.
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,957
Reaction score
13,401
To be fair, how many "good" players do we have on our roster right now where I should be concerned about this? Budda is the only Pro Bowler on the roster that's home grown. DeAndre probably leaves, and if he doesn't I don't think he's gonna get shook by any head coach talking about accountability.

I like D.J. Humphries, but I don't really care if he doesn't get along with the head coach, either.

The guy who jumped to mind was Isaiah Simmons. I really think he didn't love what Bill Davis was saying in the LB room and decided he'd just roll with the DBs. I don't think that would fly in Flores' world, but I don't think that a happy Isaiah Simmons is a top concern for an Arizona Cardinals fan, either.
new HC + new GM = player turnover

i remember when Denny was let go and Whisenhunt was brought in -- ostensibly to get the most out of the Matt Leinart

two years later, Kurt Warner takes them to the SB.
 

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
25,982
Reaction score
33,026
Location
BirdGangThing
new HC + new GM = player turnover

i remember when Denny was let go and Whisenhunt was brought in -- ostensibly to get the most out of the Matt Leinart

two years later, Kurt Warner takes them to the SB.
Whis, it can be argued, broke Leinart. I think Denny would have done much better with him.
 
Top