Wondering why all the Linebackers?

[BW52]

Was wondering why the Cards have drafted and signed all the LBs.Maybe the Cards are thinking ahead somewhat.Ray Thompson is a FA after this season and McKinnon after 2004 plus he is soon to be 30.Special teams help also.Nice forward thinking if that is the case.

 

[Pariah]

I think in the case of Hayes, it'll be an upgrade. Maybe the other OLB were a case of best value/football player available.

 

[JeffGollin]

Both Hayes and Gilbert are natural ILB's.

From Mac's comments going in and coming out of the draft, it seems as though he wanted more toughness and stoutness up the middle defensively. No knock on Ronnie-Mac, but both guys provide depth behind McKinnon and could eventually succeed him.

Yes, there's been some talk about moving Hayes outside (just as there's been talk about Darling playing inside or outside). But I think a lot of that is to give our LB's the feeling that they won't be painted into a corner career-wise.

After pooh-pooing the notion of converting our defense to a 3-4, there are signals that the Cards could do so if they wanted - a front three of Wendell - Bell - VDB in rotation with Wakefield- Atoe/Tanner - King and backed up by a linebacking crew of Fisher-McKinnon-Hayes-Raynoch with Darling as an inside/outside swingman and Gilbert spotted inside in short yardage and possibly room for Wood in reserve. (Note - there may be a logjam at LB, but injury possibilities make it imperative we have "too many" good players at any position going into camp).

I don't think they will go 3-4 as a base defense, but they could switch over to it against the right teams as game-situations dictate.

 

[EndZone]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Both Hayes and Gilbert are natural ILB's.

From Mac's comments going in and coming out of the draft, it seems as though he wanted more toughness and stoutness up the middle defensively. No knock on Ronnie-Mac, but both guys provide depth behind McKinnon and could eventually succeed him.

Yes, there's been some talk about moving Hayes outside (just as there's been talk about Darling playing inside or outside). But I think a lot of that is to give our LB's the feeling that they won't be painted into a corner career-wise.

After pooh-pooing the notion of converting our defense to a 3-4, there are signals that the Cards could do so if they wanted - a front three of Wendell - Bell - VDB in rotation with Wakefield- Atoe/Tanner - King and backed up by a linebacking crew of Fisher-McKinnon-Hayes-Raynoch with Darling as an inside/outside swingman and Gilbert spotted inside in short yardage and possibly room for Wood in reserve. (Note - there may be a logjam at LB, but injury possibilities make it imperative we have "too many" good players at any position going into camp).

I don't think they will go 3-4 as a base defense, but they could switch over to it against the right teams as game-situations dictate.

That and we drafted a 3-4 DE.

 

[40yearfan]

Interesting------Going into this off-season everyone (including the coaching staff) agreed that we needed to get more pressure on the QB if we are to have a successful defense. Then we address the LB positions more so than the DL positions. I wonder if the thought was that more emphasis was needed on using one of those LB positions to pressure the QB to keep the opposing team honest and eliminate some of the double teaming on Bryant/Vanden Bosch or whomever? I do like the idea about going to a 3 - 4 defense, especially since Endzone reminded me that Pace played in that alignment in college. This looks to be a very interesting year for the defense. I do believe with the additions through FA and the draft that we have definetly upgraded that side of the ball. Now if Bryant, Vanden Bosch, Wakefield, etc. can improve on their last year performances, we might be looking at a middle of the pack defense.<p>I wish we would have picked up some veteran WR's in FA because I see that as our only questionable part of this offense. If one of our two new draftees step forward however, that might be a mute point. This should be an exciting team to watch this year. I'd be willing to bet we will score in the 1st. quarter this year which is something we could never do with Plummer. If that's the case, and we can play ball control with our running game, maybe we can make that 10 - 6 mark I predicted this team would have after seeing the strength of the schedule.

 

[tigertat]

I think we are all forgetting that our Run Defense sucked worse then our pass defense. Upgrading the LB spot will help this a lot. And we did with this draft and signing of Darling. Plus we used the 3-4 defense about 30% of the time last year so it is an important part of our scheme.

Hayes Isnt a MLB he played one in college, he wont play one in the NFL he weighs under 238 lbs, way to small to be a MLB, heck McKinnon is a little to small. He is a SLB. We drafted him becuase the only other SLB of worth is Darling and he is more of a cover LB and nickle LB.

So I see a rotation that may look like this:

Run defense

WLB - Fisher
MLB - Gilbert
SLB - Hayes

Pass Defense

WLB - Thompson
MLB - McKinnon
SLB - Darling

3-4 Run defensive scheme

WLB - Fisher
ILB - Gilbert
ILB - McKinnon
SLB - Hayes

3-4 pass defensive scheme

WLB - Thompson
ILB - McKinnon
ILB - Darling
SLB - Fisher

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by BW52
Was wondering why the Cards have drafted and signed all the LBs.Maybe the Cards are thinking ahead somewhat.Ray Thompson is a FA after this season and McKinnon after 2004 plus he is soon to be 30.Special teams help also.Nice forward thinking if that is the case.

I think it has more to do with Fredrickson being released, finally giving up on Johnny Rutledge, worries about Fisher's knees, and seeing an opportunity to get a real backup for Ron McKinnon.

It also has a lot to do with rebuilding special teams.

 

[Goldfield]

Re: Re: Wondering why all the Linebackers?

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I think it has more to do with Fredrickson being released, finally giving up on Johnny Rutledge, worries about Fisher's knees, and seeing an opportunity to get a real backup for Ron McKinnon.

It also has a lot to do with rebuilding special teams.

yea what he said!

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

If the Cards do decide to switch to a 3-4 alignment, I wonder if they'll bring back Kevin "Slow Grave" Greene...

 

[JeffGollin]

If the Cards do decide to switch to a 3-4 alignment
Maybe not as our base but - as was mentioned earlier (and I never knew this) we used the 3-4 30% of the time last year (Is this really true????). So with these guys, maybe we'll use it more.

Or maybe we just play mix and match with the fronts on every defensive down to confuse the other side. (Danger, of course, is that we'll wind up confusing ourselves).

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Wondering why all the Linebackers?

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I think it has more to do with Fredrickson being released, finally giving up on Johnny Rutledge, worries about Fisher's knees, and seeing an opportunity to get a real backup for Ron McKinnon.

It also has a lot to do with rebuilding special teams.

I think it also has to do with the 2 guys they drafted and their potential to be full-time NFL players.

Hayes of course has the best....he was drafted higher and for good reason....for one he can play inside or out.....reports are that he is the consumate linebacker....agile....mobile...and hostile.

Gilbert looks to be a reach....oops....forgot....we reached for everyone according to the experts.....but take a closer look at this guy....sure he's only a 2 down run stopper....but what's so wrong with that?

Just because he can't run sideline to sideline....does that make him a bad MLB in any scheme?

With Gilbert I just see a guy who has led his team in tackles for the last 2 or 3 years against some of the best competition in the land.

So what do you want to do in the draft?

Draft 2 fairly sure NFL players or 2 defensive lineman who won't be any better than you have and will be cut?

 

[tigertat]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
If the Cards do decide to switch to a 3-4 alignment
Maybe not as our base but - as was mentioned earlier (and I never knew this) we used the 3-4 30% of the time last year (Is this really true????). So with these guys, maybe we'll use it more.

Or maybe we just play mix and match with the fronts on every defensive down to confuse the other side. (Danger, of course, is that we'll wind up confusing ourselves).

I did the research on it at the end of last season becuase this topic came up in another thread on another forum. There was a site that I forgot the name of that gave all obscure stats that you can think of including dropped pass, bad QB throws, oline pancake blocks, defensive formations used, offensive formations used. I really wish I remember that site, I bookmarked it but lost in in a computer swap. But the number is really about 28% if I remember right.

People realy dont realize that Marmie uses a lot of different schemes and defesive looks. Thats why our defense was succesful for the first 6 weeks because teams couldnt figure it out. Once teams started to figure it out the lack of defensive skill started to really show. With more LB skill and depth Marmie can better utilize his bag of tricks.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Originally posted by tigertat


People realy dont realize that Marmie uses a lot of different schemes and defesive looks. Thats why our defense was succesful for the first 6 weeks because teams couldnt figure it out. Once teams started to figure it out the lack of defensive skill started to really show. With more LB skill and depth Marmie can better utilize his bag of tricks.

Hmm....teams couldn't figure out our defense in week 1?

31 points in week 1 surrendered to Washington

23 points surrendered to San Diego in week 3

I like how you cut off at week 6.

The following five weeks we allowed 38, 27, 27, 38, 41, and 49 points.

Man Marmie is a genius!!! Or maybe the teams we played early had bad offenses...

*sips Cardinal Kool-Aide*Nah Marmie is a genius and no team can figure out our schemes.

 

[tigertat]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Hmm....teams couldn't figure out our defense in week 1?

If you couldnt guess it I was eluding to our rush defense.

31 points in week 1 surrendered to Washington.

No pass rush. and bad pass defense.

23 points surrendered to San Diego in week 3

No pass rush.

Look at the stats buddy we were ranked at the top in run defense for the first 6 weeks.

I like how you cut off at week 6.

Exactly the time we started to loss a lot. And teams started to run all over us. So let me see why did I cut it off at week 6.

The following five weeks we allowed 38, 27, 27, 38, 41, and 49 points.

Man Marmie is a genius!!! Or maybe the teams we played early had bad offenses...

did I ever say he was a genuis, I dont think so. Do you really need to put words in peoples mouths just try and prove your points. What I said was that he used a lot of different schemes. More then normal, and if we hand talent it would have worked. If you couldnt get that point then its out of my hands.

*sips Cardinal Kool-Aide*Nah Marmie is a genius and no team can figure out our schemes.

I still would like to know were I can get some of this Kool-aid you keep talking about.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
If the Cards do decide to switch to a 3-4 alignment
Maybe not as our base but - as was mentioned earlier (and I never knew this) we used the 3-4 30% of the time last year (Is this really true????). So with these guys, maybe we'll use it more.

Or maybe we just play mix and match with the fronts on every defensive down to confuse the other side. (Danger, of course, is that we'll wind up confusing ourselves).

And it's interesting that we picked a 3-4 DE in the first round...