Why you hire a OC/QB coach

Jetstream Green

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I believe K9 cited the Catch 22 of having Kingsbury tied to Murray right now which will make it difficult to can Kingsbury (though I see the rational of doing just that), so one option is to hire a OC/QB coach to at least offer an opposing point of view to Kingsbury's approach and have a guy to tutor Murray which will inject some tough love because it appears Kingsbury is cuddling Murray's ego. This is just a suggestion based on assumption and interested who some of the posters feel could do the job
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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I would love to hear a reporter ask KK why he doesn't put Kyler under center more? Is it Kyler? Is it KK? Something positive usually happens when Kyler is under center, play fakes & rolls out, then never runs it again. Instead he goes back to that spread 10 personnel stuff that teams have figured out. They know the route tree is around the sticks & no one ever comes back to the ball when Kyler is under pressure, making it easier to defend, especially when Kyler just lays down in the fetal position & takes the sack. Imo, the 2019 season was the most creative KK has been calling plays in his 3 seasons. Was that due to the fact we had no true #1 WR? Now we do & I guess he thinks he can go right back to the bread & butter 10 personnel? I cringe anymore when I see us in 10 personnel, especially in a 2 minute drill because I know something bad is gonna happen. As a play caller, you gotta mix it up, use misdirection, play action from under center etc etc. Figure out a team's weakness & attack it till they stop it, not just go with what worked the last game because every defense is different. KK not making adjustments drives me nuts, I figured against the Rams he would pull out every trick in the book but boy was I wrong. Not having Hopkins is a big deal but even if he did play it would've been more of the same ole same ole 10 personnel spread stuff with no adjustments imo. KK isn't gonna go for an OC other than himself so either he looks in the mirror & makes changes or he's gonna be on the hot seat next season imo. Teams have figured him out & the 2022 schedule looks brutal on paper. Had the Cardinals listened to Jerry Sullivan & drafted Justin Jefferson we would have that #2 WR & future #1.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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As far as a play caller goes, not sure of the names on the Chiefs staff but there has to be someone that knows that offense? RB, WR or TE's coach other than Bienemy because he's only taking a HC job.
 

slanidrac16

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Kyler believes his talent and athleticism can overcome any and all opponents. He consistently takes the lower pct pass because he believes he can make the play. He lacks the mind of an NFL Qb. He doesn’t seem to understand a boring 8 yard completion to a wide open receiver is much better than a almost spectacular 25 yard incompletion.. Either that or he doesn’t know where he SHOULD throw it.

I’ve referred to the Bears game where on 4th and 3 Kyler threw An absolutely perfect pass and Hopkins made an incredibly great catch for a td. Kyler either didn’t see Conner wide open in the middle of the field for an easy first down and probably would have scored.
After the game Kingsbury acknowledged exactly that but added, “ Kyler had Conner open but he recognized the one on one coverage and made the decision to exploit it.”

In other words he made the wrong decision but since it worked his coach was okay with it. A learning moment that wasn’t learned.
Then we watched as the season rolled on those great passes weren’t hitting when the easy first down pass was ignored. We saw it Monday on the 25 yard 3rd down pass failed to find Green. Three and out , punt.

I don’t think Kyler wants to play Qb in the NFL the way it needs to be played. And he has a coach who either doesn’t understand the NFL or he is just happy to see Kyler happy.

So where does that leave things?
1. The offense is to complicated and Kyler isn’t intelligent enough to grasp it?
2. Kyler is simply going to play the way he wants to play in which case Kingsbury, another coach or OC is going to matter?
3. Kingsbury simply is relying on Kyler’s athletic ability and doesn’t know how to get the most out him?

Murray and Kingsbury are at a crossroads of their careers. This offense has fallen WAY short and is the biggest cause of the collapse.
The offensive genius and the incredibly athletic Qb have failed in December football.
Both seem to lack the patience it takes to play in the NFL. They better learn REALLY quickly or the coach will be gone and the Qb will flounder his way through a stat driven career.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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As far as a play caller goes, not sure of the names on the Chiefs staff but there has to be someone that knows that offense? RB, WR or TE's coach other than Bienemy because he's only taking a HC job.
Kyler believes his talent and athleticism can overcome any and all opponents. He consistently takes the lower pct pass because he believes he can make the play. He lacks the mind of an NFL Qb. He doesn’t seem to understand a boring 8 yard completion to a wide open receiver is much better than a almost spectacular 25 yard incompletion.. Either that or he doesn’t know where he SHOULD throw it.

I’ve referred to the Bears game where on 4th and 3 Kyler threw An absolutely perfect pass and Hopkins made an incredibly great catch for a td. Kyler either didn’t see Conner wide open in the middle of the field for an easy first down and probably would have scored.
After the game Kingsbury acknowledged exactly that but added, “ Kyler had Conner open but he recognized the one on one coverage and made the decision to exploit it.”

In other words he made the wrong decision but since it worked his coach was okay with it. A learning moment that wasn’t learned.
Then we watched as the season rolled on those great passes weren’t hitting when the easy first down pass was ignored. We saw it Monday on the 25 yard 3rd down pass failed to find Green. Three and out , punt.

I don’t think Kyler wants to play Qb in the NFL the way it needs to be played. And he has a coach who either doesn’t understand the NFL or he is just happy to see Kyler happy.

So where does that leave things?
1. The offense is to complicated and Kyler isn’t intelligent enough to grasp it?
2. Kyler is simply going to play the way he wants to play in which case Kingsbury, another coach or OC is going to matter?
3. Kingsbury simply is relying on Kyler’s athletic ability and doesn’t know how to get the most out him?

Murray and Kingsbury are at a crossroads of their careers. This offense has fallen WAY short and is the biggest cause of the collapse.
The offensive genius and the incredibly athletic Qb have failed in December football.
Both seem to lack the patience it takes to play in the NFL. They better learn REALLY quickly or the coach will be gone and the Qb will flounder his way through a stat driven career.
One thing that kills me is this. Did Kyler just forget how he played in the first 7 games? I know we started having some injuries ( every team does) but in those first 7 games he was going through his reads, he was looking several different directions before he passed the ball, then we start losing & it just stops.
 

cardpa

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Kyler believes his talent and athleticism can overcome any and all opponents. He consistently takes the lower pct pass because he believes he can make the play. He lacks the mind of an NFL Qb. He doesn’t seem to understand a boring 8 yard completion to a wide open receiver is much better than a almost spectacular 25 yard incompletion.. Either that or he doesn’t know where he SHOULD throw it.

I’ve referred to the Bears game where on 4th and 3 Kyler threw An absolutely perfect pass and Hopkins made an incredibly great catch for a td. Kyler either didn’t see Conner wide open in the middle of the field for an easy first down and probably would have scored.
After the game Kingsbury acknowledged exactly that but added, “ Kyler had Conner open but he recognized the one on one coverage and made the decision to exploit it.”

In other words he made the wrong decision but since it worked his coach was okay with it. A learning moment that wasn’t learned.
Then we watched as the season rolled on those great passes weren’t hitting when the easy first down pass was ignored. We saw it Monday on the 25 yard 3rd down pass failed to find Green. Three and out , punt.

I don’t think Kyler wants to play Qb in the NFL the way it needs to be played. And he has a coach who either doesn’t understand the NFL or he is just happy to see Kyler happy.

So where does that leave things?
1. The offense is to complicated and Kyler isn’t intelligent enough to grasp it?
2. Kyler is simply going to play the way he wants to play in which case Kingsbury, another coach or OC is going to matter?
3. Kingsbury simply is relying on Kyler’s athletic ability and doesn’t know how to get the most out him?

Murray and Kingsbury are at a crossroads of their careers. This offense has fallen WAY short and is the biggest cause of the collapse.
The offensive genius and the incredibly athletic Qb have failed in December football.
Both seem to lack the patience it takes to play in the NFL. They better learn REALLY quickly or the coach will be gone and the Qb will flounder his way through a stat driven career.
Agree with all of this.
 

Totally_Red

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I agree adding an OC and or QB coach is essential to maximizing K1 since I don't see K2 getting fired THIS year. Kingsbury has no way of preventing this after the late season collapse for a second year.

Even though he's a lame duck there has to be somebody out there who relish the chance to work with K2.
 
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Jetstream Green

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I agree adding an OC and or QB coach is essential to maximizing K1 since I don't see K2 getting fired THIS year. Kingsbury has no way of preventing this after the late season collapse for a second year.

Even though he's a lame duck there has to be somebody out there who relish the chance to work with K2.
Exactly, every year with a young QB is crucial. I get the whole 'well if Kliff is not the OC, why have him because that's why we hired him' but I do not see him getting fired after getting to the playoffs and this is a way if not solely for Kyler to develop by chance Kingsbury is not doing his job or I think his approach might not be reaching him
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I agree adding an OC and or QB coach is essential to maximizing K1 since I don't see K2 getting fired THIS year. Kingsbury has no way of preventing this after the late season collapse for a second year.

Even though he's a lame duck there has to be somebody out there who relish the chance to work with K2.
How many top end OCs or QB coaches are going to want to sign on under a lame duck coach? Oh yeah, I’ll sign in AZ . . . for a year.
 
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Jetstream Green

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How many top end OCs or QB coaches are going to want to sign on under a lame duck coach? Oh yeah, I’ll sign in AZ . . . for a year.
Maybe the kind which sees this as coming at the tail end of the other's tenure and the possibility of maybe then being promoted if said coach does get fired... to the head coach job
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Maybe the kind which sees this as coming at the tail end of the other's tenure and the possibility of maybe then being promoted if said coach does get fired... to the head coach job
I doubt that’s a common occurrence. And man that would a crappy guy to hire if you’re the head coach. What a wonderful working relationship that perspective would likely create.
 

pemory09

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Kyler believes his talent and athleticism can overcome any and all opponents. He consistently takes the lower pct pass because he believes he can make the play. He lacks the mind of an NFL Qb. He doesn’t seem to understand a boring 8 yard completion to a wide open receiver is much better than a almost spectacular 25 yard incompletion.. Either that or he doesn’t know where he SHOULD throw it.

I’ve referred to the Bears game where on 4th and 3 Kyler threw An absolutely perfect pass and Hopkins made an incredibly great catch for a td. Kyler either didn’t see Conner wide open in the middle of the field for an easy first down and probably would have scored.
After the game Kingsbury acknowledged exactly that but added, “ Kyler had Conner open but he recognized the one on one coverage and made the decision to exploit it.”

In other words he made the wrong decision but since it worked his coach was okay with it. A learning moment that wasn’t learned.
Then we watched as the season rolled on those great passes weren’t hitting when the easy first down pass was ignored. We saw it Monday on the 25 yard 3rd down pass failed to find Green. Three and out , punt.

I don’t think Kyler wants to play Qb in the NFL the way it needs to be played. And he has a coach who either doesn’t understand the NFL or he is just happy to see Kyler happy.

So where does that leave things?
1. The offense is to complicated and Kyler isn’t intelligent enough to grasp it?
2. Kyler is simply going to play the way he wants to play in which case Kingsbury, another coach or OC is going to matter?
3. Kingsbury simply is relying on Kyler’s athletic ability and doesn’t know how to get the most out him?

Murray and Kingsbury are at a crossroads of their careers. This offense has fallen WAY short and is the biggest cause of the collapse.
The offensive genius and the incredibly athletic Qb have failed in December football.
Both seem to lack the patience it takes to play in the NFL. They better learn REALLY quickly or the coach will be gone and the Qb will flounder his way through a stat driven career.
These are all excellent points and show why Kliff has to go: Cards need a coach who can push/guide KM to become a true pro. Kliff clearly isn’t that guy.
 

juza76

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These are all excellent points and show why Kliff has to go: Cards need a coach who can push/guide KM to become a true pro. Kliff clearly isn’t that guy.

If Murray can see plays before the snap as he mentioned, can even the see the right path to take to become a true pro without having a coach to show him how to be
 

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