Why name Emmitt the starter?

[Russ Smith]

Just stirring the pot, why announce him as the starter now? What if Shipp outplays him in camp and preseason? Didn't Mac learn from the Jones/Pittman/Shipp stuff the last 2 years, play the guy who plays the best not the guy who you signed to be "the starter."

If that's Emmitt great, doesn't fumble, great blitz pickup guy, still a good RB. If that's Shipp he should start. My fear is with what we're paying Emmitt, he's going to play no matter what.

I have no problem with signing him and I agree he could help Shipp, but i think we're not in a position where we should be saying he's the starter, I don't think it's clear he's better than Shipp at this stage of his career.

I was surprised Mac said otherwise.

 

[Ryanwb]

I think he is doing what ever Bidwill tells him to do in this circumstance. The Cardinals were bidding against themselves to add Smith and the Bidwills were the ones pushing this deal...I didn't hear anyone complaining about Shipp.

 

[pinnacle]

actually...I think mac and graves want emmitt almost as much as the bidwills...rumor is that some of the other coaches are not that high on emmitt...no one said who the other coaches are..but I assume it is some combination of johnny roland and jerry sullivan..

 

[Ryanwb]

Well, we will find out at the end of this year whether the bidwills made the right decision.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
Well, we will find out at the end of this year whether the bidwills made the right decision.

I bet if both are healthy and get reasonable carries(so it's not totally skewed one guy getting 18 the other guy 6) that Shipp averages about .5 more YPC than Emmitt. Smith is an alltime great player but he's not that guy any more. he still sees holes and runs tough he'll be better here than he was in Dallas last year, but I think Shipp is the better RB at this stage in their careers.

Which amazes me calling an undrafted FA RB better than the alltime NFL rushing leader!

 

[JeffGollin]

Just stirring the pot, why announce him as the starter now?
Whether the decision was or wasn't a good one is debatable. But what I liked was that Mac made it quickly and announced it right away so that any possible question about who the starter would be wouldn't hang around for days or weeks like a stubborn boil.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Didn't Mac learn from the Jones/Pittman/Shipp stuff the last 2 years?

No.

Mark of a bad coach. Making the same errors over and over. Like how it took Vince Tobin 4 years to figure out that Carl Mauck and his entire OL stunk.

 

[Shane]

While I am strongly against the signing it really doesnt matter anymore he is a Cardinal and I will root for him like crazy every Sunday!

But I do agree Russ it is a mistake to just make him the starter whoever it is should have to earn it through play on the field.

Oh well Mac just doesnt learn!

 

[conraddobler]

I'd have to say on the whole signing Emmit to a 2 year contract is a positive.

1 He blocks very well and can teach Shipp

2 He understands good O line blocking and if he says it sucks people will pay attention to him.

3 He still runs well and with any blocking is still pesky for a team to defend.

4 He will sell tickets and that can't hurt.

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
...My fear is with what we're paying Emmitt, he's going to play no matter what....

I agree with that statement by Russ which to me is a repeat of what happened with Jake. What happens if this turns out to be the year that Smith is over the hill and he doesn't produce as the season gets going? Do the coaches keep sending Smith out on the field until his contract is up despite subpar performances like they did with Jake? Or do they bench him for Shipp and create a "Running Back" controversy? I see that controversy happening sometime during Smith's tenure in Arizona which won't be good for Smith or the Cardinals. I always felt that if Parcells thought Smith was no longer good enough to keep on the Cowboy's roster, then it's unlikely he's worth signing for the Cardinals either. I think the Cardinals would be better off going with Shipp and any other young back to develop. This reminds me of an over the hill Reggie White signing with a terrible Carolina Panthers team at the end of his career to try to pad his sack record to make it harder for Bruce Smith to catch him. I hope it works out better for Smith than it did for Reggie.

 

[WizardOfAz]

How can you compare this two year deal with the extension that Jake signed? Apples and oranges.

I even think it's a reach to compare a running back and quarter back. I think that you can reasonably play multiple running back - regardless of who is labled "the starter. Do many NFL teams platoon quarter backs?

 

[pinnacle]

points:

1. we probably had to promise emmitt that he would be the starter..since he is the leading rusher of all time and is coming to what historically has been a losing organization - not sure this is an out the ordinary request.

2. He will be platooned and carries will be split with shipp. They are different types of runners..


3. it is a 2 year deal. I will not kill our cap if emmit is washed up and he is only here one season.

jake was a completely different situation. jake signed a 6 year deal - and you cannot really platoon quarterbacks...running back is an important position - but qb is more important...especially if your qb turns the ball over constantly..

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
How can you compare this two year deal with the extension that Jake signed? Apples and oranges.

I even think it's a reach to compare a running back and quarter back. I think that you can reasonably play multiple running back - regardless of who is labled "the starter. Do many NFL teams platoon quarter backs?

Yes, running backs platoon while QBs rarely do, but the running back who gets the least amount of carries usually complains. They say they don't "get into the flow of the game" if they don't get their 20 to 25 carries. Thomas Jones complained about that the last 2 years behind Pittman and Shipp. Smith complained about that last year too after he broke Payton's record and the Cowboys were starting to phase him out of the offense. I don't care what the position is, QB or running back. I want the best player on the field the most, not the most popular player or the player with the highest contract. If Shipp out performs Smith, it will be interesting to see what the coaches do with Smith.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
How can you compare this two year deal with the extension that Jake signed? Apples and oranges.

I even think it's a reach to compare a running back and quarter back. I think that you can reasonably play multiple running back - regardless of who is labled "the starter. Do many NFL teams platoon quarter backs?

Exactly correct.

Emmitt has to be named the starter and will absolutely share time with Shipp. Emmitt will get less carries as the season wears on and Shipp will have the fresh legs in games 10 thru 16. Then if the Cards do make the playoffs Emmitt will be rested as well. Imagine Emmitt doing his thing early in a game and then Shipp and that O-line pounding teams in the 4th QTR.

Just can't compare QB's to RB's.

Finally proven depth at the RB position.

While talking about RB's what are the chances that Scoobey adds some weight and plays some FB. He isn't shifty anyways and has enough speed to add weight. He could be the threat at FB as a receiver and occassional ball carrier. This may be a crazy idea but I think it should be considered.

 

[Bobcat]

Russ Smith our NFL Outsider???

Just remember two words "Macrus Allen" enough said

Allan

 

[Houdini]

Marcus was willing to accept a role as a 3rd down back and goal line specialist near the end of his career. Smith still wants the bulk of the carries. This case reminds me more of the Tony Dorsett situation when Dallas went with a youth movement and Dorsett left Dallas near the end of his career to gain 700 yards with Denver in his last season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Houdini
I agree with that statement by Russ which to me is a repeat of what happened with Jake. What happens if this turns out to be the year that Smith is over the hill and he doesn't produce as the season gets going? Do the coaches keep sending Smith out on the field until his contract is up despite subpar performances like they did with Jake? Or do they bench him for Shipp and create a "Running Back" controversy? I see that controversy happening sometime during Smith's tenure in Arizona which won't be good for Smith or the Cardinals. I always felt that if Parcells thought Smith was no longer good enough to keep on the Cowboy's roster, then it's unlikely he's worth signing for the Cardinals either. I think the Cardinals would be better off going with Shipp and any other young back to develop. This reminds me of an over the hill Reggie White signing with a terrible Carolina Panthers team at the end of his career to try to pad his sack record to make it harder for Bruce Smith to catch him. I hope it works out better for Smith than it did for Reggie.

I disagree. Parcells probably (as usual) wanted his own guys and the price of just keeping Smith was prohibitive. He knew that it was better to just start over, than to keep it going. Parcells has been known to let go of decent players, just to bring in his own guys.

 

[Houdini]

The cost of letting him go for Dallas was big too because of the cap hit they took. If Dallas and Smith would have agreed to redo his contract to what the Cardinals gave him, I wonder what the cap implications for Dallas would be? I have no idea because you need 3 degrees to understand the cap and I only have one

 

[Shane]

Re: Russ Smith our NFL Outsider???

Originally posted by Bobcat
Just remember two words "Macrus Allen" enough said

Allan

NFL OUTSIDER???

Whats that supposed to mean Russ is one of the most highly respected posters on this board!

Oh and what does Marcus Allan have to do with the price of rice in China????

 

[Bobcat]

Russ Smith our NFL Outsider???

Shane: Russis always dictating his opinons on this forum I just thought that someone should call him out now and then. Russ is really a great guy and I mean no malice, just playing devila advocate.

Also; Marcus Allen once played for the LA Radiers, then got releases from them and wound uo at KC Chiefs. He was about the same age as Emmit is now. many people thought that Marcus was all washedup after he left the Raiders. Well he had 3 or 4 productive years at KC. I was just trying compare what Emmit could possible do for us, as Marcus did for the Chiefs.

Allan

 

[Shane]

Re: Russ Smith our NFL Outsider???

Originally posted by Bobcat
Shane: Russis always dictating his opinons on this forum I just thought that someone should call him out now and then. Russ is really a great guy and I mean no malice, just playing devila advocate.

Also; Marcus Allen once played for the LA Radiers, then got releases from them and wound uo at KC Chiefs. He was about the same age as Emmit is now. many people thought that Marcus was all washedup after he left the Raiders. Well he had 3 or 4 productive years at KC. I was just trying compare what Emmit could possible do for us, as Marcus did for the Chiefs.

Allan

Russ is just stong in his opinions! Many of us have strong opinions much like my strong dislike for signing Emmitt hell I even got called NEM on this board because of it! Go figure!

Plus Marcus Allan was primarily used as a 3rd down and goaline back with limited carries overall! But you are right he did have some success and Im sure that Emmitt will too, I just think talent wise at this point in his career it would be better to go with Shipp!

 

[CardLogic]

Originally posted March 18th:

Originally posted by CardLogic
I am afraid, that because he is earning 3million a year and Bidwill believes that Emmitt needs to be on the field the put butts in the seats, that Marcel Shipp will not get fair consideration to be the No. 1 back!

This could turn to crap in a hurry!

RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!

 

[JasonKGME]

Re: Re: Russ Smith our NFL Outsider???

Originally posted by Shane H
Russ is just stong in his opinions! Many of us have strong opinions much like my strong dislike for signing Emmitt hell I even got called NEM on this board because of it! Go figure!

Plus Marcus Allan was primarily used as a 3rd down and goaline back with limited carries overall! But you are right he did have some success and Im sure that Emmitt will too, I just think talent wise at this point in his career it would be better to go with Shipp!

I dont know that I would concider 200 carries on average a limited back. Most starting backs average around 300-320 carries, so 200 is only slightly limited.

In his first 4 years with KC he had 808 carries for 3193 yards, for an average of 4 yards a carry. He had 33 rushing TD's,. He also had 130 receptions for 1067 yards and an additional 3 TD's.

And honestly KC didnt have as good a line as we do in my opinion.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Just stirring the pot, why announce him as the starter now? What if Shipp outplays him in camp and preseason? Didn't Mac learn from the Jones/Pittman/Shipp stuff the last 2 years, play the guy who plays the best not the guy who you signed to be "the starter."

If that's Emmitt great, doesn't fumble, great blitz pickup guy, still a good RB. If that's Shipp he should start. My fear is with what we're paying Emmitt, he's going to play no matter what.

I have no problem with signing him and I agree he could help Shipp, but i think we're not in a position where we should be saying he's the starter, I don't think it's clear he's better than Shipp at this stage of his career.

I was surprised Mac said otherwise.

So, what was he suppose to say?

"Here's 8m bucks for the next two years, but remember you could lose the starting job in camp..."

All this means in the end is that it's Emmitt's job to lose.

 

[Bobcat]

Thank you JasonKGME

JasonKGME: Thank you for your research in Marcus Allen's career in K.C. !!!

Most people on this forum make statements about players on hear say from other members before they ever really know the facts. But again thank you for educating them about how good Marcus Allen wasonce he moved on from the Raiders. We can only hope that Emmit Smith will do the same for us.

Thanks again

Allan