Why It’s a Risk to Hire a Coach With a Losing Record

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Like I told Cheese or Ouchie or Stout??? The Cards are not a deep team. Our second team is like any other teams 3rd team. Our stars pretty much have to be injury free for us to compete on a high level. That's just the way it is unfortunately.
I don’t think this verifiable or a certainty.
 

GatorAZ

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This is highly relevant, because the 2021 team still has the vast maturity, consistency, and experience of Kurt Warner to lead them to the promised land. This 2021 team still has an in-his-prime Fitz and Anquan Boldin to throw. The 2021 team has those weapons to overcome other roster holes and defensive deficiencies. The 2021 has all of those weapons to snap out of the slide, right? Oh, they don't? Then I guess this is an incredibly irrelevant comparison. You know. Just sayin'.

The 08’ team was a complete enigma and shouldn’t be used in any comparison IMO.
 

cardpa

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We have 10 wins and are going to the playoffs (first time since 2015). We have a franchise QB. Giddy up!


I would disagree that its a healthy amount of cheering together or an appropriate amount of criticism. People personally attack others and shout them down with negativity if they don't agree. This board wanted KK and VJ fired after year 1, then they liked KK at the beginning of 2020, then they wanted him fired again. 2021 - People loved Keim, KK, and KJ - now people want to fire them and blow up the team for a 3 game losing streak. We had a 7 game winning streak for the first time since 1974 and then we went 10-2. Some people choose to look at the entirety of the season and the progress that has been made each year from 2018 (worst team in the NFL). Some act like they are fans of an NFL dynasty and have zero tolerance for any missed plays, bad decisions, or lost games. That is just not reality. Only 1 team in the NFL wins the Super Bowl each year. We have to crawl, walk, run to get where we want to go and then stay there for a long time. I like the progress that has been made and am very optimistic about the future.
Some of us believe we have seen enough and do not believe KK is going to ever amount to anything more than a mediocre coach, other like you believe he's on the right track and will continue to get better and take the team to new heights. With this I pose a question to you, how many more seasons are you willing to give him if the present scenario (the Jekyll and Hyde halves) continues into the future before you say maybe Kliff isn't the guy.
 

cheesebeef

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The 08’ team was a complete enigma and shouldn’t be used in any comparison IMO.
Agreed. They made a miracle run, heavily influenced by the playoffs and seeding falling PERFECTLY in line.

Think about this... we hosted the NFC Championship... after going into the playoffs with the worst record of ALL the playoff teams.
 

schutd

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What??? This is The NY Times. Shpigel has been covering sports for them since 2005. Before that he worked for the Dallas Morning News. I suspect if he were making up quotes he would have been outed by now. You guys are grasping at straws. Murray said it.
No no no no no. Apologies. If we're talking about unverifiable quotes, Im referring to the specific convo I was having with Ouchie regarding the fansided article. If I was unclear there, sorry. But since we're here, lets talk the NYT article.

I have issues with posters assumptions/reading-into the NYT article as well, insofar as I read it very differently than most of y'all. But I haven't gotten into it because its apparent there's no getting people to see alternate perspectives. What I read was (paraphrasing, but with key words) "Im not the type TO KILL MYSELF" watching film. Yes, that is indicative of a player pushing back against the traditional route to greatness in the NFL. Hence, a bunch of old guys like us take issue with it. I also see what everyone else sees, and I too have issues with it in terms of his current level of play. But I also realize that times change, and maybe there are other routes to greatness. Who knows. Im the epitome of a knows-enough-to-be-dangerous football fan.

I guess I read it from the perspective that the writer was fascinated (in awe almost) with Kyler Murrays approach to football. That interview most certainly happened before his current swoon, and its timing might even be more lucrative for the writer now that said swoon has happened. Its a lot more click baity when the subject of all that reverence (again, my interpretation) is getting knocked down a peg or two. More clicks, yadda yadda yadda. People like to kick a guy when he's down.

Now, we've all seen how poorly KM has been playing, but I personally am far less concerned about a quote like that, because if it had come out when he was literally destroying teams early in the season this board would be cooing about his greatness. It is what it is.

Thats my take on the NYT article in a nutshell. That kind of stuff means little to me in the grand scheme of things. Its just part of the whole picture we are still drawing of this young man.
 

cheesebeef

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I don’t think this verifiable or a certainty.

Agreed. We won road division games without our starting QB, Pro Bowl WR and multiple offensive linemen. You don’t do that with 3rd string depth.

And if you DO believe we have terrible depth... why do people believe that will change when the guy in charge of getting depth will still be calling the shots there.
 

schutd

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I understand that. So what criteria makes a publication or writer “credible” to you? I understand taking things with a grain of salt, but I why read an article if you don’t believe it will contain some info you want? Like why even read that article if you are just going to dismiss it?
Well, I believed it would. But then the "unnamed AFC scout" nonsense popped up. The info is still interesting, just less believable, therefore holds less weight with me when looking at the overall picture
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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No no no no no. Apologies. If we're talking about unverifiable quotes, Im referring to the specific convo I was having with Ouchie regarding the fansided article. If I was unclear there, sorry. But since we're here, lets talk the NYT article.

I have issues with posters assumptions/reading-into the NYT article as well, insofar as I read it very differently than most of y'all. But I haven't gotten into it because its apparent there's no getting people to see alternate perspectives. What I read was (paraphrasing, but with key words) "Im not the type TO KILL MYSELF" watching film. Yes, that is indicative of a player pushing back against the traditional route to greatness in the NFL. Hence, a bunch of old guys like us take issue with it. I also see what everyone else sees, and I too have issues with it in terms of his current level of play. But I also realize that times change, and maybe there are other routes to greatness. Who knows. Im the epitome of a knows-enough-to-be-dangerous football fan.

I guess I read it from the perspective that the writer was fascinated (in awe almost) with Kyler Murrays approach to football. That interview most certainly happened before his current swoon, and its timing might even be more lucrative for the writer now that said swoon has happened. Its a lot more click baity when the subject of all that reverence (again, my interpretation) is getting knocked down a peg or two. More clicks, yadda yadda yadda. People like to kick a guy when he's down.

Now, we've all seen how poorly KM has been playing, but I personally am far less concerned about a quote like that, because if it had come out when he was literally destroying teams early in the season this board would be cooing about his greatness. It is what it is.

Thats my take on the NYT article in a nutshell. That kind of stuff means little to me in the grand scheme of things. Its just part of the whole picture we are still drawing of this young man.
I appreciate your being open to alternative means to achieving greatness. I get that. But when film is about knowledge. What alternatives can possibly supplant superior knowledge in achieving greatness?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well, I believed it would. But then the "unnamed AFC scout" nonsense popped up. The info is still interesting, just less believable, therefore holds less weight with me when looking at the overall picture
So it’s your position that the author made up the quotes. Got it.
 

schutd

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So it’s your position that the author made up the quotes. Got it.
Gah. No. There are people all the time that don't want quotes attributed to them. It could be because he's so high up in the world that it would be detrimental to his career. It could also be that he's so low, its beneficial for the writer to not attribute the quote so as to give the impression that the guy who said it is a higher up. Make sense? I have no doubt the quote was said. The "unnamed AFC scout" source is why I give it less credence.

Fan-based writing + unnamed source = little overall relevance to me. Interesting, but doesnt carry much weight.
 

schutd

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I appreciate your being open to alternative means to achieving greatness. I get that. But when film is about knowledge. What alternatives can possibly supplant superior knowledge in achieving greatness?
If I knew, Id be up for a 40 million a year extension at the end of the season.
 

TheCardFan

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With this I pose a question to you, how many more seasons are you willing to give him if the present scenario (the Jekyll and Hyde halves) continues into the future before you say maybe Kliff isn't the guy.

Good question Cardpa but did anyone believe when we hired KK that he was a finished product/polished NFL coach? I don't think anyone did. We all knew why this decision was made (catch someone a bit early vs late) and we all realized there would be growing pains.

With that said - he has improved every year. We nearly made the playoffs last year and we did this year (based a ton on what we did to get to 10-2).

I will answer your question by saying that I am willing to continue to put up with growing pains as long as we continue to get better. Next year - playoffs are table stakes. This team needs to make a run in the playoffs. Maybe Super Bowl - maybe the year after. It really depends on the talent level (and other things). We took a big step forward this year and I expect the same next year.

Question for you and anyone else: Where has KK regressed as a coach?
 

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