What Have I Got Against Murray?

Proximo

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Because physically they aren't the same player. Mahomes is an NFL superstar TODAY. He sees the entire field so well he can make no look passes look routine. He can throw from every position imaginable. He has prototypical NFL height. He is committed to football 100% etc....

Murray is no Mahomes and I'll bet ya regardless of where he goes he will never have one single season that comes even close to what Mahomes did in the NFL last year.

Well since we don't have a time machine college stats are the only comparison we can make.

Just because Mahomes has been great in the NFL does not mean Murray won't be too.
 

Shane

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Well since we don't have a time machine college stats are the only comparison we can make.

Just because Mahomes has been great in the NFL does not mean Murray won't be too.

Your argument is pure vanilla bravo
 

Cardinal Bob

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I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

Harry's concerns are my own concerns...and if we're right, picking Murray will set this franchise back for a decade or more.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Again, this is stating that Rosen + anyone else at #1 is better than Murray + a negative cap hit and the normal lost year that comes with having a rookie QB.

If they are both equally risky prospects this is a very valid take.
Eh it’s really Murray + a negative cap hit and what they get for Rosen. Let’s be genuine here chopper.
 

TJ

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I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.
Murray still could be good, but these are legit red flags, which makes this a risky selection, too risky for #1. Let someone else make that gamble.
 

kerouac9

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Murray still could be good, but these are legit red flags, which makes this a risky selection, too risky for #1. Let someone else make that gamble.

Here's the thing: We don't have all the information. I thought that Cam Newton was too big a risk unless it was in the 20s. I was wrong as hell about that.

If you think that a guy has the physical makeup to perform at a first-round level, you have to trust your mental evaluation of him. I really, truly do not have a read on that. From what I've seen from Rosen so far, I'm confident in the mental makeup — that's one of the reasons I still have faith.
 

Timm Rosenbach

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I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

Number 3 on the list should drop him off of a first round board completely. Let alone number with the first pick
 

MadCardDisease

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No it won’t. Making a bad first pick doesn’t set any franchise back a decade or more. That’s ridiculous hyperbole in this day and age.

I agree. The fact that they have the Number One Overall pick and didn't have to give up a ton of draft capital to move up won't set the team back majorly if they select Murray. It will basically just be another Keim first round bust if it doesn't work out.
 

BirdDroppings

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I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

Harry, were there any comments about his personality or in general how he's handled the pre-draft process? Not doing any drills, refusing to meet with some teams, seemingly letting his dad and his agent make most decisions for him etc.?
 

Timm Rosenbach

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No it won’t. Making a bad first pick doesn’t set any franchise back a decade or more. That’s ridiculous hyperbole in this day and age.

Chiefs drafted Todd Blackledge over Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Not having a Quarterback until Joe Montana came to town for a few years set them back a decade. As for more recently: Ask the Redskins how they feel about that Robert Griffin trade up?
 

kerouac9

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Chiefs drafted Todd Blackledge over Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Not having a Quarterback until Joe Montana came to town for a few years set them back a decade. As for more recently: Ask the Redskins how they feel about that Robert Griffin trade up?

Well, Washington went to the playoffs in 2015 after Griffin, and they've hovered around .500 since, so I'm guessing that it DID'T set them back for a decade.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Well, Washington went to the playoffs in 2015 after Griffin, and they've hovered around .500 since, so I'm guessing that it DID'T set them back for a decade.

You lissen here Kerouac - Nine...we don't need any of yer facts on dis here board.

Facts is the devil!
 

Krangodnzr

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I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

Prefer baseball? That's ridiculous.
 

TheCardFan

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Well, Washington went to the playoffs in 2015 after Griffin, and they've hovered around .500 since, so I'm guessing that it DID'T set them back for a decade.

How much better would they be with all those picks back (2 additional #1's and a #2)? Granted...they would have had to make the right choices but there could have been some real talent they missed out on. They got a horrible return for gambling on RG3.
 

Krangodnzr

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Again, this is stating that Rosen + anyone else at #1 is better than Murray + a negative cap hit and the normal lost year that comes with having a rookie QB.

If they are both equally risky prospects this is a very valid take.

That's if you assume that Rosen is a good player.

What if Rosen is trash and Murray keeps playing at the level he always has?
 

kerouac9

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How much better would they be with all those picks back (2 additional #1's and a #2)? Granted...they would have had to make the right choices but there could have been some real talent they missed out on. They got a horrible return for gambling on RG3.

Didn't seem to help the Rams very much. :shrug:

That's if you assume that Rosen is a good player.

What if Rosen is trash and Murray keeps playing at the level he always has?

What is Murray is trash and Josh Rosen turns out to be the player you projected him to be 10 months ago? There's nothing behind this reasoning.
 

Solar7

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So little of what people are saying against Murray is based on his actual play.

That tells you that they got nothing other than bias.
I don't have much to say about Murray's play. He looked dynamic. Good for him. It's a different game.

It's like dating a girl who makes a really fantastic impression from afar, but the red flags keep coming.
 

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