What’s the best way to use Isaiah Simmons?

DVontel

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Does anyone know?

From what I’ve watched, he can’t shed blocks, can’t man cover anything that requires a turn, can’t rush off the edge unless unblocked, etc.

What has Vance made him do that is so different from college? If he has AT ALL?


Elaborate without using the Reddick cop-out.
 

oaken1

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simmons is a read and react safety. If he can see the entire play and has a moment to digest it he does really well... but he doesnt have the hips to play DB effectively in the nfl.
that being the case. He becomes a limited responsibility linebacker. Give him one thing.... Blitz the A gap... he can use his size to overpower a rb, or to jump up and bat down passes. other than that,...teach him how to tuck his shoulder into an OT and lean on him to get around.... he is quick enough to have a productive season just doing that.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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He gets good pressure blitzing through the A gap for sure, been good at that since Clemson. He makes tackles all over the field, comes from nowhere to make them it seems. I know this much, a good DC would find his perfect spot. Just because he was a Swiss army knife in college doesn't mean he'll be one in the NFL.
 

juza76

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Does anyone know?

From what I’ve watched, he can’t shed blocks, can’t man cover anything that requires a turn, can’t rush off the edge unless unblocked, etc.

What has Vance made him do that is so different from college? If he has AT ALL?


Elaborate without using the Reddick cop-out.
All those aspects are his biggest weakness, Vance Joseph probably is not the right coach for him, but as some people says
"God helps those who help themselves"
At least He should have improved a bit working hard by his own
Working on technique to disingage from blockers
Being more fluid changing direction
Experience also should have helped him reading plays, instead is often lost like his rookie year
I think he is more focus on his wardrobe then football
 

blindseyed

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They should use him like the Vikings LB Eric Kendricks, dude is all over the place and makes plays, Simmons is faster and more agile, can only imagine if we had a real DC what he could do with him
 

Card'em

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Unfortunately for the Cardinals, I agree with DVontel on the Simmons evaluation. I hate to say it, but it's time to move on. We shouldn't give him a fifth year, and saying that, we should probably try to trade him or release him if no trade is available.
 

Russ Smith

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It's too late to move him to TE so you have to keep him on defense. I'd try and trade him it depends who the DC is of course but I just don't see enough there to expect him to suddenly break out, he has too many weaknesses.
 

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Because I’m exhausted from decades of watching players leave our organization with certain reputations & going elsewhere and succeeding wildly, my advice would be to take that chance & extend him. VJ is probably one of the worst DC’s I’ve seen with the Cardinals in my lifetime. Talks intelligently, yet produces garbage. Bring in a DC that can actually develop players & see what he can do with Simmons. Might be too late, but it’s worth the risk. I’m a Syracuse fan, so I watch a ton of ACC football. Simmons was LEGIT. He was all over the field, so very long, and always seemed to make tackles that I never thought he was close enough to make. Hard to believe that he wouldn’t be elite at any level. Thanks so much VJ for being a blowhard.
 

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I think Simmons would do best as a 4-3 weakside OLB in a scheme that asks the DL to two-gap, allowing linebackers to flow to the ball.

I think a ILB in a 3-4 probably works -- but also a two gap scheme that keeps him clean, lets him pursue
 

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He is most effective within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage in either direction. Covering backs out of the backfield, A gap blitz, edge blitz, chasing a quarterback when they escape the pocket, working sideline to sideline in the run game.

He is best suited for ILB, with the caveat that defending the power run game right up the middle is a big weakness. He should be in a scheme where the defensive linemen are charged with stopping the ball carrier. In Vance's scheme, the linemen occupy blockers while the backers plug the holes. It wasn't a good fit.
 

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We can talk about the 3-4 or the 4-3 or whatevs but one thing Keim was consistent in was drafting these hybrid defensive players that that could essentially plug and play in not only multiple positions but also multiple schemes

I believe Simmons to be in that hybrid category

So again, I'd wait and see which head coach we hire and get their opinion on Isaiah first before resigning or trading

I think Flores could absolutely utilize Simmons
 

Krangodnzr

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It's too late to move him to TE so you have to keep him on defense. I'd try and trade him it depends who the DC is of course but I just don't see enough there to expect him to suddenly break out, he has too many weaknesses.
If I could move him for a decent pick, I would, because I believe he's going to get overpaid on his next contract.

I'm much more bullish on Collins.
 

Chopper0080

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Does anyone know?

From what I’ve watched, he can’t shed blocks, can’t man cover anything that requires a turn, can’t rush off the edge unless unblocked, etc.

What has Vance made him do that is so different from college? If he has AT ALL?


Elaborate without using the Reddick cop-out.
I think it is funny that on one hand you critique others for trying to hold people to NFL GM standards and then in this argument, you are holding board posters to the standard of an NFL DC. We all do it at times but you don't very often.

In terms of you argument, what does Simmons do best?

Simmons is a run and chase monster. He can run down plays side to side if he can see what is happening and has space to navigate traffic.

Simmons can make plays. For a guy whose team can't find him a position over the past two seasons he has still accumulated 3 ints, 14 pds (passes defended), 6 ffs, 5.5 sacks and 1 TD. He has done this when blitzing at a minimal 4% rate (39 of 896 snaps). Derwin James stats over his past two seasons 4 ints, 11 pds, 5 ffs, 6 sacks and 0 TDs. Shaq Thompson stats over his past two seasons 2 ints, 9 pds, 0 ffs, 2.5 sacks and 0 TDs.

I feel like that is what we have seen from him. He seems to be better with a delay blitz than just lining up and rushing off the edge but he just doesn't blitz much. If you ask me where he is best, I will go back to my thoughts when we drafted him. He needs to be away from the LOS in base sets so he can use his eyes to see the backfield action and run and chase. He needs to play LB in sub packages so that you can use him to blitz and cover equally. His role in those packages needs to be a little more unpredictable so that he can't be targeted as much.
 
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DVontel

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I think it is funny that on one hand you critique others for trying to hold people to NFL GM standards and then in this argument, you are holding board posters to the standard of an NFL DC. We all do it at times but you don't very often.

In terms of you argument, what does Simmons do best?

Simmons is a run and chase monster. He can run down plays side to side if he can see what is happening and has space to navigate traffic.

Simmons can make plays. For a guy whose team can't find him a position over the past two seasons he has still accumulated 3 ints, 14 pds (passes defended), 6 ffs, 5.5 sacks and 1 TD. He has done this when blitzing at a minimal 4% rate (39 of 896 snaps). Derwin James stats over his past two seasons 4 ints, 11 pds, 5 ffs, 6 sacks and 0 TDs. Shaq Thompson stats over his past two seasons 2 ints, 9 pds, 0 ffs, 2.5 sacks and 0 TDs.

I feel like that is what we have seen from him. He seems to be better with a delay blitz than just lining up and rushing off the edge but he just doesn't blitz much. If you ask me where he is best, I will go back to my thoughts when we drafted him. He needs to be away from the LOS in base sets so he can use his eyes to see the backfield action and run and chase. He needs to play LB in sub packages so that you can use him to blitz and cover equally. His role in those packages needs to be a little more unpredictable so that he can't be targeted as much.
I’m not holding posters to the standard of a NFL DC, I just want to know what I’m missing on how he is being used differently from college to the NFL.


He can’t blitz much because the defense will automatically be at a disadvantage in coverage(which is also critical in todays game for a ILB) with numbers. It seems like folks on this board just want him to blitz all game like that’s somehow logical.

Considering his recognition skills, Simmons being further away from the LOS sounds just as scary as him being close to it.
 
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DVontel

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@Chopper0080 made a good point about Kyler & Simmons being similar versions each other & I agree there. Although the semantics aren’t exactly the same & the standard is & should be much higher for Kyler considering his position, I find it hilarious how most are slandering Kyler(understandable & fair), but putting on ALL the capes for Simmons.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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@Chopper0080 made a good point about Kyler & Simmons being similar versions each other & I agree there. Although the semantics aren’t exactly the same & the standard is & should be much higher for Kyler considering his position, I find it hilarious how most are slandering Kyler(understandable & fair), but putting on ALL the capes for Simmons.
Personally I want to see both under different coaching before I make a full judgment.
 

cheesebeef

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@Chopper0080 made a good point about Kyler & Simmons being similar versions each other & I agree there. Although the semantics aren’t exactly the same & the standard is & should be much higher for Kyler considering his position, I find it hilarious how most are slandering Kyler(understandable & fair), but putting on ALL the capes for Simmons.
The fact that you don’t realize you do the exact same thing for Kyler shows a comical lack of self-awareness.

Personally, I want to see both of those guys under new coaches before throwing out the baby with the bath water. They’re both freaks of nature athletically, but I have no idea if those freaking abilities can be harnessed into a great player and don’t believe either had coaches who had a clue how to really develop either one.
 

Chopper0080

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I’m not holding posters to the standard of a NFL DC, I just want to know what I’m missing on how he is being used differently from college to the NFL.


He can’t blitz much because the defense will automatically be at a disadvantage in coverage(which is also critical in todays game for a ILB) with numbers. It seems like folks on this board just want him to blitz all game like that’s somehow logical.

Considering his recognition skills, Simmons being further away from the LOS sounds just as scary as him being close to it.
Zaven Collins blitzed 19 more times and Budda Baker blitzed 16 more time than Simmons. I don't understand a defense that would blitz Zaven Collins more than Isaiah Simmons. Adding 20 more blitzes over the course of a year is not a huge increase and doesn't undermine your scheme. Again, the goal is to not let Simmons use be so predictable that it can be targeted consistently.

In terms of him playing further from the LOS...I would say that most any former LB in here would likely agree that the further you are able to play away from the LOS, the easier it is to make up for false steps. False steps is where Simmons gets into trouble because he gets caught in the mess that natural LBs avoid.
 

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He’s a pass rushing outside linebacker that would also be great blitzing the A gap. He can cover a RB or TE. He has no business period ever covering a WR. He is not a DB and Vance Joseph using him as one just shows how stupid he really is.
 
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DVontel

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The fact that you don’t realize you do the exact same thing for Kyler shows a comical lack of self-awareness.
Literally in that post you quoted, I know you see me post on why it’s understandable & fair for Kyler slander. That’s no defense at all. Ain’t no lack of self-awareness. Cool it with the habit of fighting a narrative that isn’t there.
 

Shane

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I still can’t believe there are some posters who think Simmons is capable of replicating and playing like this above…. I don’t see it and I still kinda like him…. @DVontel is spot on slamming the comparison each time it comes up.
 

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