Week 3 of the Arizona Cardinals off season. 1/22/24-1/28/24

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Do you see an Ogden like talent at 5 best? You gotta luv what ifs…
Forget it. I’m over trying to educate people on concepts about which they are obviously not equipped to understand. Yes, pass on the 5th tackle. You do you, Mensa.
 

SoonerLou

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Lamar Jackson was the 5th best QB in his class so that must mean he was going to have the 5th best career out of that class.
Fair point.

Really is fascinating where guys go. Cause I think if we traded back and took Lamar. He struggles with Wilks and Keim dismisses him immediately to pair Kyler with Kliff. '

Lamar likely doesnt play as bad as Rosen elsewhere so he'd have a shot to save his career.
 

Outerlimits

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We should probably accept that the defense is still going to be pretty awful. If it can improve to just somewhat bad, we are in good shape I guess. The fact the Cardinals are becoming a strong rushing offense that can chew up clock can certainly help though. My realistic expectations are for the Cardinals to win 7-10 games.(if my optimism on Kyler is correct)
 

CardNots

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Apologies. Frustrating afternoon. Shouldn’t have taken it out on you.

But without getting into it, you kinda missed the point of my comment.
I did get your point.

Two points I made, there are not 8 OL worthy of a first round pick and I think it’s foolish to use a first round pick on a prospect who isn’t at least top three at their position.

Runs on position happen frequently. We shouldn’t let that change our board.
 

DaHilg

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We should probably accept that the defense is still going to be pretty awful. If it can improve to just somewhat bad, we are in good shape I guess. The fact the Cardinals are becoming a strong rushing offense that can chew up clock can certainly help though. My realistic expectations are for the Cardinals to win 7-10 games.(if my optimism on Kyler is correct)
I’m close to here as well… 9-11 games is my prediction. No way will we have the bad luck of having one of the highest SOS again. 4 games vs the Rams and Seattle shouldn’t scare us for once… Seattle w Carroll is a big loss for them imo, Stafford a year older can’t help the Rams.

With how many holes not realistic to make both sides of the ball up to par, I’d rather focus on the offense so we can figure out if Kyler is our franchise beyond this year, bc this draft is loaded with offensive talent and lastly bc I do think this coaching staff can get more out of less of its defensive talent.

Now that doesn’t mean don’t do anything on defense.. we have to address if we even mediocre upgrade on the Dline and CBs.. 2-4 starters need to be replaced asap, we know what we have with what is there at those positions… no need to further a discovery research on them.
 

Crimson Warrior

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I’m close to here as well… 9-11 games is my prediction. No way will we have the bad luck of having one of the highest SOS again. 4 games vs the Rams and Seattle shouldn’t scare us for once… Seattle w Carroll is a big loss for them imo, Stafford a year older can’t help the Rams.

With how many holes not realistic to make both sides of the ball up to par, I’d rather focus on the offense so we can figure out if Kyler is our franchise beyond this year, bc this draft is loaded with offensive talent and lastly bc I do think this coaching staff can get more out of less of its defensive talent.

Now that doesn’t mean don’t do anything on defense.. we have to address if we even mediocre upgrade on the Dline and CBs.. 2-4 starters need to be replaced asap, we know what we have with what is there at those positions… no need to further a discovery research on them.

Omg we are far apart on this one DaHilg!

Besides the WR room (which is pretty far from okay I admit) I honestly think our offense is already close to being good enough to complete in the playoffs.

But we need some star power on defense! Some playmakers!

It's still defense that wins championships my friend! :) Hope you're 2024 is off to a great start!
 

Stout

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Omg we are far apart on this one DaHilg!

Besides the WR room (which is pretty far from okay I admit) I honestly think our offense is already close to being good enough to complete in the playoffs.

But we need some star power on defense! Some playmakers!

It's still defense that wins championships my friend! :) Hope you're 2024 is off to a great start!
We need playmakers on defense for sure, but we need a 1 and a 2 at WR, which are not insignificant holes to fill.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I did get your point.

Two points I made, there are not 8 OL worthy of a first round pick and I think it’s foolish to use a first round pick on a prospect who isn’t at least top three at their position.

Runs on position happen frequently. We shouldn’t let that change our board.
These additional comments lead me to believe you still did not get my comment. Draft based on talent not how many of a certain player are better at their position. Now if it’s you’re personal analysis that there aren’t 8 tackles that possess the actual talent to be first round picks, that’s you’re assessment but I don’t think that’s been your argument.
 

QuebecCard

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I did get your point.

Two points I made, there are not 8 OL worthy of a first round pick and I think it’s foolish to use a first round pick on a prospect who isn’t at least top three at their position.

Runs on position happen frequently. We shouldn’t let that change our board.

Every MOCK I've seen so far shows a run on offensive lineman between 20 and 32.

In other words, they have first-round grades, and the fact that there may be more than three O-lineman or Wideouts, etc., etc., available in the first round makes your point suspect to say the least.

If the fifth or sixth-ranked O-lineman with a first-round grade and seen as a year-one starter at right tackle is available at #27, take him - IMO.
 
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slanidrac16

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Every MOCK I've seen so far shows a run on offensive lineman between 20 and 32.

In other words, they have first-round grades, and the fact that there may be more than three O-lineman or Wideouts, etc., etc., available in the first round makes your point suspect to say the least.

If the fifth or sixth-ranked O-lineman with a first-round grade and seen as a year-one starter at right tackle is available at #27, take him - IMO.
That’s why I wouldn’t be upset if we swapped our Texans pick and a 3rd to move up. I think the thought of acquiring extra picks is to add flexibility to do just that.
So if we were to get MHJ and then give up a 3rd to move up for a guy like Fuaga I would be happy.
 

DaHilg

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Omg we are far apart on this one DaHilg!

Besides the WR room (which is pretty far from okay I admit) I honestly think our offense is already close to being good enough to complete in the playoffs.

But we need some star power on defense! Some playmakers!

It's still defense that wins championships my friend! :) Hope you're 2024 is off to a great start!
I’m not so sure that’s completely true in this NFL… I’d argue the Chiefs had pretty poor defenses in 4 of their 6 runs to the AFC Champion Ship (now Mahomes is Mahomes similar to how Manning was Manning so prob a diff story).

I think we need this on offense; WR1, WR2, LT or RT (pending where we see PJJ), LG and an RB to complement JC in the terms can take it to the house or pick up 20 yards on a screen. I like Carter, but I feel he is more the guy that takes off of JC’s load and steps up when JC is out for 2-6 games every year. So that’s 4 starters and a rotational RB I feel we need on the offensive end.

Can’t fill all of these holes at once and an offense that couldn’t score didn’t help these teams with Stout defenses in 23’; Jets, Bears, Raiders, Giants.

Hope your 24’ is off to a great start as well!
 

DaHilg

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I’m not so sure that’s completely true in this NFL… I’d argue the Chiefs had pretty poor defenses in 4 of their 6 runs to the AFC Champion Ship (now Mahomes is Mahomes similar to how Manning was Manning so prob a diff story).

I think we need this on offense; WR1, WR2, LT or RT (pending where we see PJJ), LG and an RB to complement JC in the terms can take it to the house or pick up 20 yards on a screen. I like Carter, but I feel he is more the guy that takes off of JC’s load and steps up when JC is out for 2-6 games every year. So that’s 4 starters and a rotational RB I feel we need on the offensive end.

Can’t fill all of these holes at once and an offense that couldn’t score didn’t help these teams with Stout defenses in 23’; Jets, Bears, Raiders, Giants.

Hope your 24’ is off to a great start as well!
Can add Pitt to this list as well as a few others I’m sure..
 

daves

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It's still defense that wins championships my friend!
This is a really antiquated notion.

For example, Mike Sando just had an article in The Athletic in which he listed the offensive and defensive EPA rankings of the last 5 Super Bowl winners and losers, and this year's final 4 teams:
TeamOffense RankDefense Rank
2022 Chiefs (Won SB)118
2021 Rams (Won SB)511
2020 Buccaneers (Won SB)58
2019 Chiefs (Won SB)218
2018 Patriots (Won SB)77
2022 Eagles (Lost SB)46
2021 Bengals (Lost SB)1310
2020 Chiefs (Lost SB)319
2019 49ers (Lost SB)72
2018 Rams (Lost SB)313
2023 49ers112
2023 Lions524
2023 Ravens93
2023 Chiefs115

As you can see, of the last 5 Super Bowl Winners, none had an offense ranked lower than 7th, while none had a defense ranked higher than 7th, with an average offense rank of 4 and defense rank of 12.4. The Super Bowl losers had an average offense rank of 6 and average defense rank of 10. Of the last 10 Super Bowl participants, only 2 (both losers) had a defense ranked higher than their offense.

It will be interesting to see whether the Ravens or Chiefs can buck the trend this season and win the Super Bowl with an offense ranked 9th or 11th and a higher-ranked defense.
 

BullheadCardFan

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Didn't want to start another thread for this, but does anyone know the best place to get an authentic Cardinals helmet (new version)? Have a new office and need to proudly display dedication to the Red Sea.
This site has white, red and black ones


NFL gear

 

gmabel830

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That’s why I wouldn’t be upset if we swapped our Texans pick and a 3rd to move up. I think the thought of acquiring extra picks is to add flexibility to do just that.
So if we were to get MHJ and then give up a 3rd to move up for a guy like Fuaga I would be happy.
I'd be quite happy with that too... Guyton is another guy out there too who has played a lot of RT, if we are committed to moving PJJ to LT.
 
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Crimson Warrior

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This is a really antiquated notion.

For example, Mike Sando just had an article in The Athletic in which he listed the offensive and defensive EPA rankings of the last 5 Super Bowl winners and losers, and this year's final 4 teams:
TeamOffense RankDefense Rank
2022 Chiefs (Won SB)118
2021 Rams (Won SB)511
2020 Buccaneers (Won SB)58
2019 Chiefs (Won SB)218
2018 Patriots (Won SB)77
2022 Eagles (Lost SB)46
2021 Bengals (Lost SB)1310
2020 Chiefs (Lost SB)319
2019 49ers (Lost SB)72
2018 Rams (Lost SB)313
2023 49ers112
2023 Lions524
2023 Ravens93
2023 Chiefs115

As you can see, of the last 5 Super Bowl Winners, none had an offense ranked lower than 7th, while none had a defense ranked higher than 7th, with an average offense rank of 4 and defense rank of 12.4. The Super Bowl losers had an average offense rank of 6 and average defense rank of 10. Of the last 10 Super Bowl participants, only 2 (both losers) had a defense ranked higher than their offense.

It will be interesting to see whether the Ravens or Chiefs can buck the trend this season and win the Super Bowl with an offense ranked 9th or 11th and a higher-ranked defense.

First, thanks for the content dave! Love it!

However, I'm not sure the data fully supports your point!

From 2018 - 2022 four superbowl losers had top seven offenses! How far did those great offenses get them? :)

Also from 2018 - 2022 three of the superbowl winners had top ten(ish) defenses (restating your comment another way)! Those were very good, leaning towards great, defensive units!

So if anything I would suggest that data set is inconclusive!

Perhaps if we really wanted to analyze the relative importance of defense vs. offense, then maybe a league wide won-loss record analysis would be more meaningful, but of course I'm certainly not asking anyone to do that! haha.

Final word on my part is that I do agree with you 100% that "defense wins championships" is less true than it was 25 years ago (partly due to new rules favoring the offense), and that having a great offense has become more important in the current NFL.

However, at least for the moment I'm going to stick with the idea that defense, especially a dominate front seven that can consistently pressure the QB with four, and stop the run with seven, is the most important component of a championship team! I'll give you the final word if you'd like!

Thanks again! Hope 2024 has started out great for you!
 
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Shane

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Happy anniversary!
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It’s really kinda suspect. No TDs in the second half we had to rely on Timmy Hightower to get it done. :)
 
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