Video: Kyler Murray can’t see the middle of the field.

[Cardsfan77]

Just watch the entire video, title is oversimplified and meant to get views I think.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The lazy argument is high completion percentage over the middle = being good at throwing over the middle. It in no way factors in the throws that aren't made, for various reasons, be it lack of vision, impatience and bailing from the pocket, or just a natural propensity for wanting to go for the big shot downfield on the outside. Just quoting the completion percentage is a lazy argument at this point.

I don't think that he is particularly great at throwing up the middle, but at least it is a stat that can show some tangible proof. The Kyler is small = can't throw down the middle is lazy and tiresome.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No, not really. Throwing over the middle is a staple. A good QB needs to be able to do it well, and also do it consistently, or they're not going to make much noise in the NFL. Yes, he has a decent percentage throwing over the middle. That's not the problem. The problem is missing open receivers in the middle of the field and thus not throwing to them. As was said by someone earlier in the thread, you can get an outrageously good percentage throwing over the middle if you only throw 9 of them and complete 8. What about the other 10 that you left on the field?

Throwing over the middle, being patient enough to throw over the middle, is certainly still an issue.

Two different issues. Throwing over the middle (accuracy) and going through progressions. Kyler has made strides at the first one, and still struggles at the second.

The video, and lots of people on this site say he can't throw over the middle due to his size. His stats last year say otherwise.

 

[football karma]

i think he did a good job identifying the good: pre snap reads, elite level throws, off schedule plays

i dont agree with "cant see the middle" and think its more "when the pre snap read is off, then what?"

a couple examples:

the play at 9:40 vs Lions as the lead to "teams figure Kliff out". I think its true as the season goes on, teams figure out what the first read is and they take it away, and then work to contain Kyler. On that play -- Ertz is breaking towards the corner with his defender stacked and with their back to the ball. Thats the throw -- i doubt it wasnt made because "he cant see the middle"

Next one: Lions blitz and its an easy throw to his left to James Conner with 15 yards of space ahead of him. But, he double clutches and tries to roll right. I dont see that as "cant see the middle" or even they figured Kliffs offense.

The Rams 2nd game example where he throws a pick: 1. that ball was tipped, and, 2. for knowing the Cards offense, that same goal line rub play on the left had DHop wide open.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think he is lamenting Kliff's lack of coaching, which is brought up in the video as a large reason for these issues.

Hmm...I caught the part where Rollins stated that Kliff can't run his entire offense because of Kyler's struggles, which is what I've argued ALL offseason.

Kliff is underrated around here. That's my hot take.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Two different issues. Throwing over the middle (accuracy) and going through progressions. Kyler has made strides at the first one, and still struggles at the second.

The video, and lots of people on this site say he can't throw over the middle due to his size. His stats last year say otherwise.

Yeah one of the over the middle throws (targeting Ertz) that Rollins said that Kyler "couldn't see" if you look at the angle Kyler could clearly see Ertz, but just hesitated too long to throw the ball. It's a bit conjecture to just watch film and claim that Murray can't see, it could also be that Murray is just turnover shy and the middle of the field is where most interceptions are thrown.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmm...I caught the part where Rollins stated that Kliff can't run his entire offense because of Kyler's struggles, which is what I've argued ALL offseason.

Kliff is underrated around here. That's my hot take.

He blamed Kyler's lack of footwork on Kliff as well as the overly simple concepts he runs. He also discussed at length about his inability to innovate after the middle of the season when teams adapt.

 

[football karma]

it could also be that Murray is just turnover shy and the middle of the field is where most interceptions are thrown.

i also think this is a factor

it seems the more Kliff harps on taking care of the ball, you get a tentative QB who waits to see guys open (my number 2 criticism of Kyler)

 

[football karma]

the play at 9:40 vs Lions as the lead to "teams figure Kliff out". I think its true as the season goes on, teams figure out what the first read is and they take it away, and then work to contain Kyler. On that play -- Ertz is breaking towards the corner with his defender stacked and with their back to the ball. Thats the throw -- i doubt it wasnt made because "he cant see the middle"


The Rams 2nd game example where he throws a pick: 1. that ball was tipped, and, 2. for knowing the Cards offense, that same goal line rub play on the left had DHop wide open.

Just realized this:

the Lions game was the week after the Rams 2 game.

Both of the above were very similar plays -- and i could see something like K1 watching film of the Rams and seeing the backside rub play wide open, and the next week deciding pre snap he was going that way

 

[Stout]

Two different issues. Throwing over the middle (accuracy) and going through progressions. Kyler has made strides at the first one, and still struggles at the second.

The video, and lots of people on this site say he can't throw over the middle due to his size. His stats last year say otherwise.

Fair. It very well may not be due to his size. He can be accurate over the middle but not hit his progressions.

 

[TheCardFan]

I wondered how many posts it would take before someone threw up the NextGen Stats graphic. What that doesn't show is the volume on those passes. If Kyler goes 7-8 for 90 yards and a TD over a season, his passer rating is gonna look pretty good in that area, but what it really shows you is that Kyler isn't throwing nearly enough into that area.

Enlighten us...what are the passing numbers to each zone?

 

[TheCardFan]

The lazy argument is high completion percentage over the middle = being good at throwing over the middle. It in no way factors in the throws that aren't made, for various reasons, be it lack of vision, impatience and bailing from the pocket, or just a natural propensity for wanting to go for the big shot downfield on the outside. Just quoting the completion percentage is a lazy argument at this point.

Pure speculation based on some dudes post on YouTube. Where are your facts?

 

[TheCardFan]

i think he did a good job identifying the good: pre snap reads, elite level throws, off schedule plays

i dont agree with "cant see the middle" and think its more "when the pre snap read is off, then what?"

a couple examples:

the play at 9:40 vs Lions as the lead to "teams figure Kliff out". I think its true as the season goes on, teams figure out what the first read is and they take it away, and then work to contain Kyler. On that play -- Ertz is breaking towards the corner with his defender stacked and with their back to the ball. Thats the throw -- i doubt it wasnt made because "he cant see the

Agreed - this one play completely blows up that dudes argument. Easy to see unless you have ulterior motives.

 

[Stout]

Pure speculation based on some dudes post on YouTube. Where are your facts?

Watching players open in the middle of the field and KM not throwing to them. Pretty straightforward.

Are you preparing to go all Teflon KM here?

 

[Jetstream Green]

No, not really. Throwing over the middle is a staple. A good QB needs to be able to do it well, and also do it consistently, or they're not going to make much noise in the NFL. Yes, he has a decent percentage throwing over the middle. That's not the problem. The problem is missing open receivers in the middle of the field and thus not throwing to them. As was said by someone earlier in the thread, you can get an outrageously good percentage throwing over the middle if you only throw 9 of them and complete 8. What about the other 10 that you left on the field?

Throwing over the middle, being patient enough to throw over the middle, is certainly still an issue.

I don't think it's a question of being patient with those passes over the middle, those are quick strikes and Kyler seems to hold the ball too long when trying to hit the slot guy on short crossing routes instead of leading him

 

[blindseyed]

And In other news water is wet

We are definitely in the off season lol

 

[Harry]

Really good vid. However, if you look in the comments you'll see Seahawks fans saying Russell had the same issue. As the guy in the video said those run-action plays (as I've been saying for 3 years) help alleviate some of those issues. We dont do enough of it.

As I've said also. Its not a film issue. Its a footwork/movement in the pocket to find throwing lanes issue. As well as Keim not giving the Cards an awesome interior/thus Kyler not always trusting it.


Kyler needs to be as committed as Drew Brees was to finding throwing windows in muddy pockets. That's a training eyes/feet problem.

I’ve never been easy on Murray but this video is simple minded. SoonerLou is correct. What Murray lacks is an understanding of throwing lanes and how to create them. No one is out there saying Brees couldn‘t see over the middle. What Murray lacks is the composure & patience to hang in the pocket and shift side to side. Yes the O-line could make that easier for him with a better pocket, but watch the crossing routes on the film. You’ll often see a clean throwing alley at some point in the route between Murray and the crosser. The problem is by that point Murray has shifted his focus to a perimeter route by that point.

It is a valid point Kingsbury’s offense doesn’t help. He could cross slot guys and wideouts creating more open receivers on the outside. He could stack or group receivers to more often disrupt defender coverage. He does it some but not enough with frequent variety. Virtually all QBs have issues throwing some routes. Several can’t throw deep. This film’s concerns can be fixed with better play design and improved QB technique. It is not a reason to throw your hands up in despair.

That said, since he got here I’ve contended Murray’s success was due more to athleticism than technique. To consistently beat strong teams you need both. Murray showed some growth last year. He needs to develop more. The same is true of his coach.

 

[SoonerLou]

Hmm...I caught the part where Rollins stated that Kliff can't run his entire offense because of Kyler's struggles, which is what I've argued ALL offseason.

Kliff is underrated around here. That's my hot take.

I'd say he's properly rated.

Kliff cant run his full offense because of Kyler's limitations. However, Kyler's strengths make up for Kliff's scheme's (lack of run action/not moving wrs around) as well. Just like Manziel made up for Kliff's offense. Even though taller I'd say Mahomes as well cause his own individual chaos made up for when the scheme got stagnant.

With Kyler's athleticism he'd be dangerous with a team like the 49ers. Shanahan's sort of got the right mix. I also think he'd be harder on Kyler as well in terms of footwork and timing. Just dont know if Trey Lance has the accuracy.

Basically they arent the perfect fit for each other. However, still good enough of a fit.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He blamed Kyler's lack of footwork on Kliff as well as the overly simple concepts he runs. He also discussed at length about his inability to innovate after the middle of the season when teams adapt.

I heard all that too.

Kylers footwork was substantially better early in the season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'd say he's properly rated.

Kliff cant run his full offense because of Kyler's limitations. However, Kyler's strengths make up for Kliff's scheme's (lack of run action/not moving wrs around) as well. Just like Manziel made up for Kliff's offense. Even though taller I'd say Mahomes as well cause his own individual chaos made up for when the scheme got stagnant.

With Kyler's athleticism he'd be dangerous with a team like the 49ers. Shanahan's sort of got the right mix. I also think he'd be harder on Kyler as well in terms of footwork and timing. Just dont know if Trey Lance has the accuracy.

Basically they arent the perfect fit for each other. However, still good enough of a fit.

Lots of people making up for Kliffs offense! Thats a stretch.

 

[SoonerLou]

Lots of people making up for Kliffs offense! Thats a stretch.

He never gets fired if he had a guy that could move and throw.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I’ve never been easy on Murray but this video is simple minded. SoonerLou is correct. What Murray lacks is an understanding of throwing lanes and how to create them. No one is out there saying Brees couldn‘t see over the middle. What Murray lacks is the composure & patience to hang in the pocket and shift side to side. Yes the O-line could make that easier for him with a better pocket, but watch the crossing routes on the film. You’ll often see a clean throwing alley at some point in the route between Murray and the crosser. The problem is by that point Murray has shifted his focus to a perimeter route by that point.

It is a valid point Kingsbury’s offense doesn’t help. He could cross slot guys and wideouts creating more open receivers on the outside. He could stack or group receivers to more often disrupt defender coverage. He does it some but not enough with frequent variety. Virtually all QBs have issues throwing some routes. Several can’t throw deep. This film’s concerns can be fixed with better play design and improved QB technique. It is not a reason to throw your hands up in despair.

That said, since he got here I’ve contended Murray’s success was due more to athleticism than technique. To consistently beat strong teams you need both. Murray showed some growth last year. He needs to develop more. The same is true of his coach.

A very nuanced opinion thank you

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’ve never been easy on Murray but this video is simple minded. SoonerLou is correct. What Murray lacks is an understanding of throwing lanes and how to create them. No one is out there saying Brees couldn‘t see over the middle. What Murray lacks is the composure & patience to hang in the pocket and shift side to side. Yes the O-line could make that easier for him with a better pocket, but watch the crossing routes on the film. You’ll often see a clean throwing alley at some point in the route between Murray and the crosser. The problem is by that point Murray has shifted his focus to a perimeter route by that point.

It is a valid point Kingsbury’s offense doesn’t help. He could cross slot guys and wideouts creating more open receivers on the outside. He could stack or group receivers to more often disrupt defender coverage. He does it some but not enough with frequent variety. Virtually all QBs have issues throwing some routes. Several can’t throw deep. This film’s concerns can be fixed with better play design and improved QB technique. It is not a reason to throw your hands up in despair.

That said, since he got here I’ve contended Murray’s success was due more to athleticism than technique. To consistently beat strong teams you need both. Murray showed some growth last year. He needs to develop more. The same is true of his coach.

I agree with everything you are saying, but as the video shows, Murray is constantly looking for that big play down the field when you see guys open across the middle.

I saw it all year long.

You can criticize Kliff, but what we don't know is 1) how many times Murray is audibling out of his called play 2) how much of the offense is designed off of Murray's tendencies.

Kliff had more motion in his offense in year one compared with two and three. An explanation for this is that Murray doesn't care for motion.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’ve never been easy on Murray but this video is simple minded. SoonerLou is correct. What Murray lacks is an understanding of throwing lanes and how to create them. No one is out there saying Brees couldn‘t see over the middle. What Murray lacks is the composure & patience to hang in the pocket and shift side to side. Yes the O-line could make that easier for him with a better pocket, but watch the crossing routes on the film. You’ll often see a clean throwing alley at some point in the route between Murray and the crosser. The problem is by that point Murray has shifted his focus to a perimeter route by that point.

It is a valid point Kingsbury’s offense doesn’t help. He could cross slot guys and wideouts creating more open receivers on the outside. He could stack or group receivers to more often disrupt defender coverage. He does it some but not enough with frequent variety. Virtually all QBs have issues throwing some routes. Several can’t throw deep. This film’s concerns can be fixed with better play design and improved QB technique. It is not a reason to throw your hands up in despair.

That said, since he got here I’ve contended Murray’s success was due more to athleticism than technique. To consistently beat strong teams you need both. Murray showed some growth last year. He needs to develop more. The same is true of his coach.

I agree with everything you are saying, but as the video shows, Murray is constantly looking for that big play down the field when you see guys open across the middle.

I saw it all year long.

You can criticize Kliff, but what we don't know is 1) how many times Murray is audibling out of his called play 2) how much of the offense is designed off of Murray's tendencies.

Kliff had more motion in his offense in year one compared with two and three. An explanation for this is that Murray doesn't care for motion.

I think a lot of what Kliff wants to do is handicapped by Kylers tendencies. And Kyler is so talented, that it's ok to live with these issues until he figures things out.

 

[TheCardFan]

Watching players open in the middle of the field and KM not throwing to them. Pretty straightforward.

Much different than saying he can't see the middle of the field.