Today’s Rumor (03/22) - Cards are making Indy sweat it out

Krangodnzr

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He's making, what, 9 million? For J freaking C? At his age, with his injury history, and with his limited abilities? Yes, that would be a giant contract. Yes, when that is like twice or three time as much as Philly is paying their entire RB room. That isn't hyperbole. Sorry not sorry.
Hyperbole. $9 million isn't a giant contract.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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$1m more than David Montgomery just got with a very similar career so far is "giant"

And Montgomery hasn't had a 20 TD season.
Meh TDs are more about opportunity and fantasy football than any valuable metric. Mens he’s good at short yardage which we all acknowledge and appreciate.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The hyperbole on this board is maddening, as is confirmation bias. Those who were against Conner coming here have been mostly proven wrong. Doesn't mean the contract for Conner was smart, but it's nowhere close to as egregious as many other contracts. Ertz's contract was probably even worse.
I’ve never understood standing up one contract because you’ve signed someone else to a worse contract.
 

Krangodnzr

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If I’m Detroit and i have two 1st’s and two 2nd’s with the perfect stopgap in Goff I’m at least calling the Cards about Richardson. That’s a perfect situation to groom a young QB while remaining competitive.
I'd listen for two firsts and two seconds. Get Gonzalez, Van Ness, and who ever falls into the second round. That means you could take Gibbs at the top of round two if available and then an OL later in round two.
 

BritCard

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He's making, what, 9 million? For J freaking C? At his age, with his injury history, and with his limited abilities? Yes, that would be a giant contract. Yes, when that is like twice or three time as much as Philly is paying their entire RB room. That isn't hyperbole. Sorry not sorry.

Hyperbole. $9 million isn't a giant contract.

For a RB, especially this one? Especially when it's double or even triple what some other RB rooms make total? Epitome of a stupid deal and, yes, a giant contract for a RB. But, hey, keep defending that indefensible JC contract.

He's making $7m per year. Not $9m.
 

BullheadCardFan

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He's making $7m per year. Not $9m.
Cap hit is $9.445 million on both sites

Salary is $6.25 million with $2 million signing bonus for 2023 on sportrac dead cap is $11,750,000

Salary is $6.25 million with $3 million prorated bonus on overthecap dead cap is $13,750,000


 

Stout

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Cap hit is $9.445 million on both sites

Salary is $6.25 million with $2 million signing bonus for 2023 on sportrac dead cap is $11,750,000

Salary is $6.25 million with $3 million prorated bonus on overthecap dead cap is $13,750,000


So, in actuality, it's more than what I said. Sheesh, that makes it even worse.
 

BritCard

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So, in actuality, it's more than what I said. Sheesh, that makes it even worse.

Holy crap. No it isn't.

He's paid $7m per year, this is just how it's structured for cap management.

You don't get to moan ALL last season about him getting paid $7m when he was only paid $4m last year then moan this year he's actually getting $9m.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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.

You don't get to moan ALL last season about him getting paid $7m when he was only paid $4m last year then moan this year he's actually getting $9m.
Agreed. I think cap management can really throw a wrench in having these discussions.
 

Stout

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Holy crap. No it isn't.

He's paid $7m per year, this is just how it's structured for cap management.

You don't get to moan ALL last season about him getting paid $7m when he was only paid $4m last year then moan this year he's actually getting $9m.
Um, sure I do because you're not the boss of me lol

Cash money paid is irrelevant; cap hit is king in these discussions.

This argument is going nowhere, so I'm going to back off on it. We both know it isn't a good contract; we're just quibbling about how bad of a contract it is.
 

BritCard

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Um, sure I do because you're not the boss of me lol

Cash money paid is irrelevant; cap hit is king in these discussions.

This argument is going nowhere, so I'm going to back off on it. We both know it isn't a good contract; we're just quibbling about how bad of a contract it is.

If cap hit is king why was you bagging on him as being overpaid last year when his cap hit was only $3.9m?
 

BritCard

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That's still overpaying for a JC. Not like the big overpay this season, but still an overpay. I've never hid the fact that I don't rate him.

The Stout JC opinion-o-meter

Has swung from he sucked for Pitt and was injury prone we shouldn't sign him to he had a great season he was a great signing, then his $7m per deal was fair to now laughably overpaid.

I guess you covered all the bases.
 

Stout

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The Stout JC opinion-o-meter

Has swung from he sucked for Pitt and was injury prone we shouldn't sign him to he had a great season he was a great signing, then his $7m per deal was fair to now laughably overpaid.

I guess you covered all the bases.
I never said he sucked at Pitt; he wasn't good enough for the Pittsburgh Steelers, though ;) I know what you meant, but it was a funny faux pas.

Him not being good enough for the Stillers isn't an original Stout opinion. Stillers fans wanted rid of him because he's limited in athleticism and always got injured. He's upheld that rep with us.

I also never said he was a great signing. I've always been kind of down on him even when he put up the big numbers. If you recall in that season, he got hurt and was out when we really, really needed him.

Good kid, a huge heart, and he will out effort anybody he plays against. He's just limited and gets hurt often. He is what he is and should be a low-priced backup. That's what he'll be when we're done with him.
 

kerouac9

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The biggest problem with Keim is that he often gave out contract extensions to confirm how smart he was with the previous contract/finding value earlier.

James Conner's 2021 contract was genius and a great value.

Brit has declared that there was no way Conner was going to come back in 2022 for less money than he ended up getting.

That's not really an argument for overpaying him, IMO. Paying RBs a third contract(!!) is a dumb decision almost 100% of the time, especially after their career year. Connor was never going to be able to outperform that contract; he could only play up to it.

He hasn't done that.

This is a Keim problem. Jermaine Gresham got an insane second contract. David Johnson and Tyrann Mathieu got insane extensions coming off injury. Zach Ertz got an insane contract extension.

Hopefully these types of deals are done.
 

Stout

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The biggest problem with Keim is that he often gave out contract extensions to confirm how smart he was with the previous contract/finding value earlier.

James Conner's 2021 contract was genius and a great value.

Brit has declared that there was no way Conner was going to come back in 2022 for less money than he ended up getting.

That's not really an argument for overpaying him, IMO. Paying RBs a third contract(!!) is a dumb decision almost 100% of the time, especially after their career year. Connor was never going to be able to outperform that contract; he could only play up to it.

He hasn't done that.

This is a Keim problem. Jermaine Gresham got an insane second contract. David Johnson and Tyrann Mathieu got insane extensions coming off injury. Zach Ertz got an insane contract extension.

Hopefully these types of deals are done.
Very good point that this was a Keim problem. The FO certainly didn't create the problem. I may disagree how they're handling it, but one way or another, he won't be a Card for too much longer, then the problem will go away. So long as the FO isn't throwing big money after RBs in the future, there won't be more problems overpaying the position.
 

football karma

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This is a Keim problem. Jermaine Gresham got an insane second contract. David Johnson and Tyrann Mathieu got insane extensions coming off injury. Zach Ertz got an insane contract extension.
it seems Keim would let non-football stuff influence the contract process

the fact that Johnson and Mattieu were extremely popular with fans at the time influenced the amount

I know Carson Palmer went to bat for Gresham and imo that had an impact. Trading for Ertz was probably the highlight of the 2021 season

Connor was similar -- a very good stat year and a very good guy seemed to result in a bigger than necessary contract
 
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