Thoughts on the first round of the upcoming draft...

[az jam]

Cards are sticking with Rosen. KK's top priority is developing him.

 

[HGC]

Rosen's ceiling is much higher than "adequate starter"

There's also no reason at all for Arizona to draft a QB, not even in the later rounds. For starters, the QB class is dreadful. Dude's who're going to be drafted Day 2 are Day 3 picks in any other draft. Further, the team has a solid QB2 in Glennon already under contract. If we trade down and accumulate extra picks, that should be to create depth across both lines, WR, and LB. Drafting a QB this offseason is about the same priority as drafting a punter, kicker, or long snapper.

If Rosen flames out next season, we'd be in a position to draft a QB high in 2020, which is a far better QB class.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/20...-deshaun-watson-patrick-mahomes-deshone-kizer

How are Mahomes, Watson and Trubisky working out? You don’t remember tanking for Darnold after the Rose Bowl?

 

[slanidrac16]

Cards are sticking with Rosen. KK's top priority is developing him.

Not advocating this but let’s say kingsbury is totally infatuated with kyler Murray. Being that Rosen is basically going to be a “rookie” this year would it be so crazy to think the cards could take Murray IF they could trade Rosen to the Giants, jags, bengals or dolphins for their first ( and more) Rosen is going to be starting from square one just like Murray would be. We would still have a top 12 pick or so with perhaps an additional 3 rd. Again IF Kingsbury truly believes Murray is a step above and a better fit for his offense I would not be upset. The only way I would be upset is if we drafted Murray to compete with Rosen.

 

[TJ]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/20...-deshaun-watson-patrick-mahomes-deshone-kizer

How are Mahomes, Watson and Trubisky working out? You don’t remember tanking for Darnold after the Rose Bowl?

How's the QB class for 2013 doing? This class is in between 13 and 17, IMO. You have maybe two impact prospects in Haskins and Murray.

 

[TJ]

Not advocating this but let’s say kingsbury is totally infatuated with kyler Murray. Being that Rosen is basically going to be a “rookie” this year would it be so crazy to think the cards could take Murray IF they could trade Rosen to the Giants, jags, bengals or dolphins for their first ( and more) Rosen is going to be starting from square one just like Murray would be. We would still have a top 12 pick or so with perhaps an additional 3 rd. Again IF Kingsbury truly believes Murray is a step above and a better fit for his offense I would not be upset. The only way I would be upset is if we drafted Murray to compete with Rosen.

I'm curious: Is your hypothesis about KK being infatuated w/ Murray based on the video clip from October?

 

[Totally_Red]

TE-TJ Hockenson-Iowa
-Big, physical TE who can block and be an impact receiver. He is what we all want Gresham to be. Would also enable us to see if RSJ can further develop with a better offense.

Hockenson would be an outstanding pick if he lasts to the third round. I like him more than Noah Fant especially with regard to character. You can't go wrong with Iowa tight ends.

 

[HGC]

How's the QB class for 2013 doing? This class is in between 13 and 17, IMO. You have maybe two impact prospects in Haskins and Murray.

2019 is dreadful. 2020 is far superior. Those are your words not mine. Why don’t you let the process play out before you tell people they’re wrong for not sharing your opinion.

 

[TJ]

2019 is dreadful. 2020 is far superior. Those are your words not mine. Why don’t you let the process play out before you tell people they’re wrong for not sharing your opinion.

This is a really poor post.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say because you’re not very clear, but it sounds like you’re basically saying that I can’t have an opinion and share it. In other words, telling ME that I’m wrong.

 

[HGC]

This is a really poor post.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say because you’re not very clear, but it sounds like you’re basically saying that I can’t have an opinion and share it. In other words, telling ME that I’m wrong.

I give you the recent example of Mahomes, Watson and Trubisky and you respond with 2013. Nice reach.
The draft process hasn’t even begun for 2019 and you’ve already decided that next years class is “far better”

Whatever I’m done.

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm curious: Is your hypothesis about KK being infatuated w/ Murray based on the video clip from October?

Yes.

 

[Chopper0080]

Stopped reading after claiming that QB is set.

Rosen has shown way too little to pass up drafting a QB at #1 if there is someone who is worth the pick.

Rosen is a lesser talent that has not even looked good so far.

If that is where you stopped reading then the rest of the post will not do you any good.

 

[Chopper0080]

chopper, you lost me at NOT NEEDING A QB.

That is ok. See you in 2020 then? I'm not sure you are going to get much enjoyment from the upcoming season if that is your mindset.

 

[TJ]

Stopped reading after claiming that QB is set.

Rosen has shown way too little to pass up drafting a QB at #1 if there is someone who is worth the pick.

Rosen is a lesser talent that has not even looked good so far.

It’s set because Rosen will finally have an adequate supporting cast next season to make real judgements on his NFL career. Imagine a rookie QB playing under a rookie OC a year removed from being an intern, an inept head coach, the worst O-Line in the league, absent running game, few WR weapons with his top target missing 4 games with a broken foot, and always playing from behind. Those variables are enough to rattle any QB. I doubt that any of the other rookie QBs would’ve had a modicum if success on this team.

If you draft a QB #1 without addressing most of the aforementioned needs, you’ll be bitching again for another QB in 2020.

I’m confident that Rosen will be great, but if he isn’t, we’ll be well positioned for a top-tier QB in the 2020 class.

 

[juza76]

That is ok. See you in 2020 then? I'm not sure you are going to get much enjoyment from the upcoming season if that is your mindset.

so its like when u dream something and then u assume its going to come true

 

[Chopper0080]

so its like when u dream something and then u assume its going to come true

It is like the Wilks hire. Many on this board thought it was going to be a trainwreck, but they also knew he wasn't going to get fired mid-season. It's the same with Kingsbury and Rosen. You may think this is an inevitable failure, but Kingsbury isn't getting fired and Rosen is going to be the starter barring injury.

 

[GatorAZ]

I’d be willing to move back into the mid-1st if Miami puts Laremy Tunsil or Xavien Howard on the table. Plus picks of course.

 

[Chopper0080]

The OL is tough because I don't have a good feel of how much the system is going to help it. Is the interior going to be more important than the tackles ala the Saints offense? Are tackles going to be asked to stone bull rushers and interior moves primarily so strength and size will be a priority? It is tough for me to try and project.

 

[eastcoastSUN]

Is there any precedent for a team to trade the #1 pick back into the late single digits or mid-first round? The only one I can think of is when the Rams traded up for Goff (#15) and a bounty of other picks (2 2nds, 3rd, next year's 1st) for the #1 in 2016. Not an AZ snowball's chance we get that bounty since the QBs this year seem limited... just wondering if Keim can finagle his way into something decent since I'm not entirely sold on Bosa...

On another note - has there been a team recently that traded down multiple times in the same round? Maybe we can get value if we went from #1 to #4 and say, #4 to #7 while racking up more players... just a thought

 

[kerouac9]

Kingsbury was brought in to develop Rosen not look for his replacement in year one. A developmental QB in the later rounds who fits Kingsbury’s offense is certainly a possibility.

This is true. Kingsbury can't give up on Rosen without having a single practice with him (maybe even a single meeting! I forget what the rules are).

The more likely scenario is, if Kingsbury decides he doesn't like Rosen, to replace him in the first half of the season with Mike Glennon, who could have all the necessary tools and we know that Keim loved anyway. This would be Kurt Warner Lite.

It’s set because Rosen will finally have an adequate supporting cast next season to make real judgements on his NFL career. Imagine a rookie QB playing under a rookie OC a year removed from being an intern, an inept head coach, the worst O-Line in the league, absent running game, few WR weapons with his top target missing 4 games with a broken foot, and always playing from behind. Those variables are enough to rattle any QB. I doubt that any of the other rookie QBs would’ve had a modicum if success on this team.

If you draft a QB #1 without addressing most of the aforementioned needs, you’ll be bitching again for another QB in 2020.

I’m confident that Rosen will be great, but if he isn’t, we’ll be well positioned for a top-tier QB in the 2020 class.

Here is the important period from last season to consider. After Nov 11, Push and Humphries went on IR. I think there was enough in this period (between the rookie getting his feet wet and the season falling apart) to consider that you could have a solid starting QB here. The biggest problem was that David Johnson was so extremely bad, and I can't really say why.

Is there any precedent for a team to trade the #1 pick back into the late single digits or mid-first round? The only one I can think of is when the Rams traded up for Goff (#15) and a bounty of other picks (2 2nds, 3rd, next year's 1st) for the #1 in 2016. Not an AZ snowball's chance we get that bounty since the QBs this year seem limited... just wondering if Keim can finagle his way into something decent since I'm not entirely sold on Bosa...

On another note - has there been a team recently that traded down multiple times in the same round? Maybe we can get value if we went from #1 to #4 and say, #4 to #7 while racking up more players... just a thought

The Chargers traded the 2001 #1 overall pick to Atlanta, who took Mike Vick. They got back the #5, a third-rounder, a 2nd the next year, and Tim Dwight.

I think the Browns traded down multiple times in the same draft, and I'm pretty sure the Pats have as well.

 

[TheCardFan]

The more likely scenario is, if Kingsbury decides he doesn't like Rosen, to replace him in the first half of the season with Mike Glennon, who could have all the necessary tools and we know that Keim loved anyway. This would be Kurt Warner Lite.

Ah...that is a pretty bold prediction.

Kurt Warner was 2x Super Bowl player and MVP before he came to AZ.

 

[kerouac9]

Ah...that is a pretty bold prediction.

Kurt Warner was 2x Super Bowl player and MVP before he came to AZ.

It's not a prediction; I like Josh Rosen and expect him to be fine. But this is the only way to really turn the page. Kurt Warner was viewed as washed up by basically everyone when he was replaced by Leinart.

 

[Harry]

The OL is tough because I don't have a good feel of how much the system is going to help it. Is the interior going to be more important than the tackles ala the Saints offense? Are tackles going to be asked to stone bull rushers and interior moves primarily so strength and size will be a priority? It is tough for me to try and project.

It a tough assessment but logically with 5 receivers the more time you can buy the more progressions you can work through.

 

[AZCrazy]

Don't judge any rookie quarterback that goes to an offense that doesn't have it's act together.
Two OC's, one clown and one a rookie himself.
Our WR's were Fitz and undrafted rookies by the end.
Our TE was Gresham, the drive killing flag magnet
Our OL was completely absurd, changing lineups every week to include more and more guys who were on the street days before.
Never heard of an OL that went 0 for 5 on the season with every player on IR.

 

[JeffGollin]

Is there any precedent for a team to trade the #1 pick back into the late single digits or mid-first round? The only one I can think of is when the Rams traded up for Goff (#15) and a bounty of other picks (2 2nds, 3rd, next year's 1st) for the #1 in 2016. Not an AZ snowball's chance we get that bounty since the QBs this year seem limited... just wondering if Keim can finagle his way into something decent since I'm not entirely sold on Bosa...

On another note - has there been a team recently that traded down multiple times in the same round? Maybe we can get value if we went from #1 to #4 and say, #4 to #7 while racking up more players... just a thought

I'm pretty sure, Bill Parcells traded down at least a couple of times in the first round of the Eric Dickerson draft.

 

[JeffGollin]

It a tough assessment but logically with 5 receivers the more time you can buy the more progressions you can work through.

Anyone care to provide details of how wider splits will help an offense?