Thoughts on Haley, Payton, Whiz, McNabb, Woodley and Get Fits in the Draft

Mitch

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1. Don't be totally surprised if Todd Haley is let go in KC...or if he and GM Scott Paoli settle on a buyout of his contract. Paoli cannot be happy that Charlie Weis prefers the Florida OC gig to his OC gig in KC. Now there's speculation that Paoli would replace Weis with Josh McDaniels (another Patriot connection)...and if you recall Haley refused to shake McDaniels' hand following the Chief's blowout loss in Denver.

When Paoli hired Haley, it seemed like the wrong match to begin with. Paoli has such an ego that it would seem very likely that he is attributing the Chief's success this year to his personnel decisions and his decision to hire Weis as the OC and Romeo Crennel as the DC.

One might imagine that Haley began to see the writing on the wall last year.

2. When the New Orleans Saints had a subpar season two years ago and failed to make the playoffs, HC Sean Payton---an offensive guru---and the Saints' FO---decided to go all-out and hire Gregg Williams as the DC.

One can make a strong argument that it was this move more than any other that led the Saints to last year's Super Bowl victory. The Saints under Payton always were in pretty good shape offensively---but less so on defense. Well, Williams took care of that in a hurry, didn't he?

Which leads us to the question of whether Ken Whisenhunt and the Cardinals' FO would do the same---as in go all-out to try to hire a big name DC like Wade Phillips or John Fox.

The two possible stumbling blocks for such a move?

(1) The FO's reluctance to spend big on assistant coaches (but, if Russ Grimm heads off to Carolina, they will have his salary as a starting point---yet it will take more than his salary to land a big name DC).

(2) Whisenhunt's own reluctance to hire outside his own personal comfort zone.

3. Perception. It's a bigger thing in the NFL than some people realize---especially to the players of a team.

Take the Cardinal players last year. Imagine the perception they had when they learned that the answers to replacing Kurt Warner were naming Matt Leinart the starter (a player that some of them considered soft and unworthy) and signing Derek Anderson (a player who was so bad last year in Cleveland that the fans cheered when he got hurt).

Take the Cardinals' defensive players. In the aftermath of Dansby's and Rolle's defections, Darnell Dockett was so excited the Cardinals signed Joey Porter that he vowed to attend the OTAs. And in trading for Kerry Rhodes and drafting Williams & Washington #1/#2, the percetion was, hey the FO is really trying to upgrade the defense.

So why wasn't the defense that much better this year?

The problem likely goes back to a perception that originated two years ago---when following their first Super Bowl appearance and the subsequent releasing of Clancy Pendergast as DC, there was all kinds of buzz about who the new DC would be. When Whisenhunt elected to promote the LB coach instead---the perception was that Whiz and the FO went cheap and took the easy way out. Essentially the message to the players was: more of the same.

And that's exactly what it's been---more of the same.

What do you think the Saints' players perception was when Payton and their FO hired Gregg Williams as DC?

Hirings like this create a level of anticipation---and gives the players a sense that they will have a new edge on the competition.

Look at what Mike Martz has done with what was a horrible QB and offense in Chicago last year. Martz might be the MVC in the NFL this year, especially if the Bears advance deep into the playoffs.

As poor as Jay Cutler was---the hiring of Mike Martz was a signal that help was on its way. Cutler is a totally different player this year...and this Bear offense is suddenly explosive.

4. As for perceptions...I don't think there is any question that a move to acquire QB Donovan McNabb would have the whole Cardinal team buzzing. McNabb can still throw the ball 60 yards from his back foot...and following this year's disappointment in DC, McNabb should be all the more eager to re-establish himself as a perrenial Pro Bowl caliber QB.

This move would certainy delight Larry Fitzgerald...and it could have a huge impact on whether he and Steve Breaston decide to re-sign with the team.

The siginings that would change all the perceptions: QB Donovan McNabb or QB Michael Vick (imagine if the Cardinals actually outbid the Eagles for him, wow) and SOLB LaMarr Woodley (if he doesn't get the f-tag...which likely he will, although with the Steelers you never know) or ILB David Harris (the Jets have some serious cap issues if a new cap is imposed).

A trade for QB Kevin Kolb would bring great excitement as well...but the price tag might be too steep...and Kolb is more about potential still, as he really hasn't played enough to be considereda sure thing.

5. Great Fits in the Draft:

1. LT Anthony Castonzo, Boston College. Tall, agile, athletic and smart---a modern day LT for a passing team.

2. ILB Greg Jones, Michigan State. Tackling machine. What a tandem he would make with Daryl Washington.

3. OLB Justin Houston, Georgia. If he declares...this kid would move right in at OLB and provide exceptional athleticism and pressure off the edge.

4. Marcell Darreus, DE, Alabama. He should declare and if the team hires John Fox, for example, and wishes to revert back to a 4-3 base, imagine a front 4 of Darreus, Dockett, Williams and Campbell.

5. TE Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame. Another junior who may declare. Tall and sure handed---can split the seams.

6. G Mike Pouncey, Florida. Plays with bounce and good leverage. Very good pass protector.

7. C Chase Beeler, Stanford. Super smart, athletic, competitive.

8. RB Dion Lewis, Pittsburgh. With all the turmoil at Pitt, he could declare. This kid is lightning in the bottle and plays tough.

9. WR Julio Jones, Alabama. Might declare, probably will. Played with a broken hand and still excelled. Has the total package and the toughness.

10. WOLB Adrian Robinson, Temple. Young, under-rated speed rusher who may declare due to coaching change.
 

Buckybird

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Mitch, love the thoughts on potential players in the draft.

1)No way Haley gets tossed

2)No way the Steelers let Woodley test FA or that the Cards would sign another high $$$ ex-Steeler.

3)I'm hoping for a young, hungry DC like Kevin Greene & not an older, unmotivated Wade Phillips. If the Cards are going to run the 3-4 they better hire the coach who knows the scheme & get some young edge rushers to execute it!!!
 

football karma

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"The FO's reluctance to spend big on assistant coaches"

Didn't the Cards spend pretty big to keep Haley prior to the Chiefs and get Grimm?
 

Southpaw

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Charlie is leaving, imho, because Haley is the real OC. Weiss carries a clipboard in KC. Florida gig is a good one and a stepping stone. Muschamp is green and Charlie should be able to have an influence on that offense. He will get big $$$$ at Florida. Now he gets to be a real OC. Not in New England or KC, where he didn't have full responsibility. The Notre Dame gig has to be stuck in his craw. The SEC should be wide open next year and Florida is in the hunt. Georgia has huge offensive problems. Auburn, one and done. Alabama loses a lot, as does Arkansas.
 

TigToad

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Grimm is getting a million and we did pay more than normal to keep our conditioning coach. I'm not sure we're not willing to pay for quality coaches... I think it is more your other comment, that Whis isn't as comfortable hiring outside of his comfort lzone.
 

DemsMyBoys

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Hi Mitch. Happy New Year my friend!

OK - I totally agree with you on the perceptions issue. Nice observations. But Haley gone? And that's what you lead with? I'd be s-h-o-c-k-e-d. Are you reading the KC sports reporters? What are you basing it on?
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Charlie is leaving, imho, because Haley is the real OC. Weiss carries a clipboard in KC. Florida gig is a good one and a stepping stone. Muschamp is green and Charlie should be able to have an influence on that offense. He will get big $$$$ at Florida. Now he gets to be a real OC. Not in New England or KC, where he didn't have full responsibility. The Notre Dame gig has to be stuck in his craw. The SEC should be wide open next year and Florida is in the hunt. Georgia has huge offensive problems. Auburn, one and done. Alabama loses a lot, as does Arkansas.

Wally, Weiss is the legit OC in KC. Haley, like most HCs, can chime in when he wants---which may have been more than Weis bargained for.

Weis is a proven OC---has rings to prove it. Thus, the Florida gig is not a stepping stone---at this point in Weis' career he's looking for a comfortable spot and an intriguing challenge.

It's interesting that Weis didn't wait to see if he would get any NFL HCing interviews, esp. with all the openings. While the ND gig didn't work out as planned, some NFL team might feel Weis is better suited for the NFL anyway.

That'a moot now that he's headed to Gainsville, unless an NFL team tries to pursuade him otherwise.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Hi Mitch. Happy New Year my friend!

OK - I totally agree with you on the perceptions issue. Nice observations. But Haley gone? And that's what you lead with? I'd be s-h-o-c-k-e-d. Are you reading the KC sports reporters? What are you basing it on?

Dems, Happy New Year, pal! Hope this is a great year for you!

Haley is a controversial figure---as you know, he's got quite an edge---which rubs people in very different ways. My hunch is that Paoli believes he can get a HC who fits his mold better than Haley.

Sometimes he acts like a petulant teenager on the sidelines. He doesn't quite look the part of a HC or act like one---and in the NFL, perceptions matter.

Haley's antics don't bother or concern me. I think he's a winner. But, I get the sense that he's not as valued as a fit in KC as people might think.
 

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1. No way KC cans Haley this year. He turned the team around that would be a PR nightmare. The owner would lose most of his season ticket holders. Next year, if they don't make the playoffs, maybe. Yes, I know Haley and Pioli might have issues, but the owner would overrule Pioli on this, you know that.

2. Cards must sign real coordinators. They don't *have* to go with proven guys. Haley wasn't a proven guy when we brought him in. But they can't stick with Whiz and Davis calling plays next year. I disagree that ownership won't pay for it though. We are paying Grimm a pretty penny if I remember correctly. I still think (more like hope) ownership's cheapness this year was due to lockout fears and is the exception, not rule, with Michael B.

3. Interesting thoughts on perception. I do think the QB situation screwed the psyche of this team this year before the season even started.

4. I disagree about McNabb being eager to reestablish himself. I see a guy who's getting by on his legacy and really just wants to take it easy until he retires. I still want him, but as our #2, which would mean we either take a QB in the first round, or more likely, Skelton works out and beats him out in camp.

As for "making a splash," that can go both ways. The Redskins make a splash in FA every year and it doesn't ever work for them. I do like your ideas though. McNabb is a real possibility if he comes cheap and with no expectations. Vick will never happen. I'd love Woodley but that is more a pipe dream. Harris is a dream for me. Other LB options are Tamba Hali from KC, any of the Cleveland LBs, Kirk Morrison (perfect SILB for us), and Kamerion Wimbley. SD has 4 FA LBers as well.

5. I like that list. Some of them would be reaches in the top 10. Trading down to say, 20 and taking Pouncey seems like a good idea if we decide we're not interested in one of the top 10 players.
 

SuperSpck

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Mitch hits on an important idea when he talks about player perception. In coach speak it's often called "buying in".

Players are people too after all, and a recognizable name can get the juices flowing.

He uses the Saints example quite well. They needed a total remake on defense and they got it in terms of attitude and scheme.

This is exactly what the Cardinals defense needs right now.
 

Zeno

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Not a chance Haley gets fired.

2-3 great points and absolutely agree.

McNabb would be as big a disaster here as he was in Washington. Whisenhunt is not going to change his offense, he has shown that this year. McNabb is a fit for one type of offense (what they run in Philly) and has shown that.
 

Chopper0080

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I would argue that is less a matter of perception and more a matter of credibility. We have yet to bring in a d coordinator who comes with a proven scheme and a history of success.

I have referenced the similarities to the business world a couple times. It is hard to trust your job to someone who doesn't have a history of success or come with a proven plan to do so. Transition comes with struggle, but if the personnel doesn't have some sort of to belief that things will change, the manager will lose them. 2010 Cardinals defense right there.
 

PaulW

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Whizenhunt will fight the FO not to bring in any coach that might be strong headed about changing the Cardinal current enviornment. I waited for 30 some years for some winning seasons and now with this FO and group of coaches, I'll have to wait another 30 years.

I have absolutly no confidence in this FO or coaches. It's a miserable group.
 

john h

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Grimm is getting a million and we did pay more than normal to keep our conditioning coach. I'm not sure we're not willing to pay for quality coaches... I think it is more your other comment, that Whis isn't as comfortable hiring outside of his comfort lzone.

The Auburn OC just got a raise to 1.5 million. He turned down the job as head coach at Vanderbllt. He is a genius when is comes to offense. Some day he will be a HC in the SEC or the NFL. Only about 6 years ago he was coaching the high school state champions in Arkansas. He does not copy other peoples plays he invents his own that other people copy.
 

Southpaw

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The Auburn OC just got a raise to 1.5 million. He turned down the job as head coach at Vanderbllt. He is a genius when is comes to offense. Some day he will be a HC in the SEC or the NFL. Only about 6 years ago he was coaching the high school state champions in Arkansas. He does not copy other peoples plays he invents his own that other people copy.

We'll see how it works next year without Newton.
 

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