Thoughts about the offense

[Russ Smith]

First off Kyler has to be better, 7 passing TD's and 4 rushing TD's against 5 picks and a lost fumble is not horrible but we need better passing and more consistency. For a guy who played the read option or RPO whatever you want to call it in college, he still misses reads. There was a play today where Brown the DT just flattened Drake, I know the QB reads the end there but if you saw the replay Brown beat the C literally on the snap, if Kyler had read that maybe he keeps the ball and tries to bounce outside, Drake had virtually no chance.

Basically half of Kyler's passing yards are to Hopkins, I think that's the single biggest issue on this offense. It's partly Kyler looking his way more and partly that we have nobody else. Isabella can run but is a work in progress, Larry is a slow TE playing Wr, Kirk just can't stay healthy. I think a big reason the camp star Arnold has been so Meh so far is what they call floor balance in basketball. If you can make 3's the defense has to extend and then it's easier to drive to the rim. In football if you can't go over the top and stretch the defense, they compress and then a TE is far less impactful. Kyler has to push the ball downfield and the WR's have to get open and catch it. The only speed guy on the practice squad I'm aware of is JoJo Ward and I don't see him as an impact guy so it's got to be guys on the roster that can stretch the field and then Kyler has to get them the ball.

I was ok with us keeping Hump but he got destroyed again today, in week 1 the best thing that happened to the offense was after he got hurt, KK started chipping to help the backup. I suspect we have to do this more often because Hump is just not good enough to solo out there against good pass rushers.

I know Drake has a higher YPC but right now I think Edmonds is actually better, Drake is supposed to be the better receiver but Edmonds has been better this year(had a drop today). I think for both it's more of what I said about Arnold the offense is so compressed the dumps to the RB's don't work but Edmonds seems to get more yardage. Not saying bench Drake(I have him in my fantasy team) but I do think he has to play better, or play less.

the next 3 games are against a mediocre and then 2 bad defenses. We HAVE to get better in those 3 games it we can't something is really wrong.

 

[PJ1]

Agree Edmonds has been better than Drake. Our run blocking hasn't been good but Drake looks slow.

 

[Chopper0080]

If Kyler is good, his offensive weapons are good enough. Dude is overthrowing 6'6 Arnold. He is overthrowing Isabella. He is overthrowing Fitz. He has two ok RBs. Kyler throws short when he has time and holds the ball when he doesn't. He wasn't under duress for a lot of this game and he still struggled. The issues of the offense are on Kyler. When he plays well, our offense looks good. When he doesn't, it doesn't.

I think people are overthinking this a bit.

 

[Russ Smith]

If Kyler is good, his offensive weapons are good enough. Dude is overthrowing 6'6 Arnold. He is overthrowing Isabella. He is overthrowing Fitz. He has two ok RBs. Kyler throws short when he has time and holds the ball when he doesn't. He wasn't under duress for a lot of this game and he still struggled. The issues of the offense are on Kyler. When he plays well, our offense looks good. When he doesn't, it doesn't.

I think people are overthinking this a bit.

I think clearly Kyler has been a big part of the problem but again he has 11 TD's passing and running combined. This TEAM has 12 TD's total, and Kyler has been involved in 11 of them. Outside of Hopkins we don't have anybody else but Kyler making plays.

He has to be better, more consistent 100% agree but there are many more problems with this offense than just Kyler. We just don't make enough plays downfield to keep defenses honest. Some of that is Kyler absolutely, some of it the lack of speed at WR IMO.

This is the make or break year for Kirk IMO, he has to get healthy and make an impact or else you draft to replace him next year.

This offense needs more speed IMO. Better OL too but the NFL is making it easier with the de emphasis on holding this year, most teams are making hay downfield as a result. we're not.

 

[Shane]

First off Kyler has to be better, 7 passing TD's and 4 rushing TD's against 5 picks and a lost fumble is not horrible but we need better passing and more consistency. For a guy who played the read option or RPO whatever you want to call it in college, he still misses reads. There was a play today where Brown the DT just flattened Drake, I know the QB reads the end there but if you saw the replay Brown beat the C literally on the snap, if Kyler had read that maybe he keeps the ball and tries to bounce outside, Drake had virtually no chance.

Basically half of Kyler's passing yards are to Hopkins, I think that's the single biggest issue on this offense. It's partly Kyler looking his way more and partly that we have nobody else. Isabella can run but is a work in progress, Larry is a slow TE playing Wr, Kirk just can't stay healthy. I think a big reason the camp star Arnold has been so Meh so far is what they call floor balance in basketball. If you can make 3's the defense has to extend and then it's easier to drive to the rim. In football if you can't go over the top and stretch the defense, they compress and then a TE is far less impactful. Kyler has to push the ball downfield and the WR's have to get open and catch it. The only speed guy on the practice squad I'm aware of is JoJo Ward and I don't see him as an impact guy so it's got to be guys on the roster that can stretch the field and then Kyler has to get them the ball.

I was ok with us keeping Hump but he got destroyed again today, in week 1 the best thing that happened to the offense was after he got hurt, KK started chipping to help the backup. I suspect we have to do this more often because Hump is just not good enough to solo out there against good pass rushers.

I know Drake has a higher YPC but right now I think Edmonds is actually better, Drake is supposed to be the better receiver but Edmonds has been better this year(had a drop today). I think for both it's more of what I said about Arnold the offense is so compressed the dumps to the RB's don't work but Edmonds seems to get more yardage. Not saying bench Drake(I have him in my fantasy team) but I do think he has to play better, or play less.

the next 3 games are against a mediocre and then 2 bad defenses. We HAVE to get better in those 3 games it we can't something is really wrong.

Im sorry Russ but 7 TDS and 6TOs is absolutely horrible almost 1 for 1 damn near...

 

[Russ Smith]

Im sorry Russ but 7 TDS and 6TOs is absolutely horrible almost 1 for 1 damn near...

Its' 11 and 6 if you're counting the fumble.

Again I'm not saying he's playing well but he has a hand or foot in 11 of our 12 TD's. That's part of our problem IMO he and Hopkins ARE the offense.

 

[JosiahLee]

Its' 11 and 6 if you're counting the fumble.

Again I'm not saying he's playing well but he has a hand or foot in 11 of our 12 TD's. That's part of our problem IMO he and Hopkins ARE the offense.

I put that fumble on Murray. He could have easily stepped forward and rushed for 5 + yards on that play but was slow in releasing the ball even though the pocket was collapsing.

 

[Shane]

Its' 11 and 6 if you're counting the fumble.

Again I'm not saying he's playing well but he has a hand or foot in 11 of our 12 TD's. That's part of our problem IMO he and Hopkins ARE the offense.

no your right fair is fair I wasn’t thinking of rushing TDS..... my bad

 

[Russ Smith]

I put that fumble on Murray. He could have easily stepped forward and rushed for 5 + yards on that play but was slow in releasing the ball even though the pocket was collapsing.

I'm not disagreeing I just meant Shane counted the fumble but didn't count the rushing TD
s

 

[Russ Smith]

no your right fair is fair I wasn’t thinking of rushing TDS..... my bad

No problem we're all pissed off right now. I fully expected to be 4-0 right now after winning the first game.

Very disappointed

 

[SoonerLou]

Its' 11 and 6 if you're counting the fumble.

Again I'm not saying he's playing well but he has a hand or foot in 11 of our 12 TD's. That's part of our problem IMO he and Hopkins ARE the offense.

He's on pace for 44 total TDs and 4600+ total yards. We're 2-2

So yea he (and Hopkins) are the offense.

He blew the Lions game

Matt Rhule thoroughly outcoached Kliff today (Maybe its a Panthers thing because we had a similar low passing outage against them last year. Even though its a new coaching staff)

We seemed to figure out some things after the 1st month of the season last year. Maybe we'll do that again, but hopefully better this time.

 

[cardpa]

For all of the hubris about K2 bringing a explosive multi dimensional offense to this team, it has evolved into more of a traditional NFL offense. DCs are figuring out the wrinkles of K2's offense.

Drake is who he is. We are seeing the Drake that played in Miami. He had a career year for 1/2 of last season. Edwards is looking better than him.

A lot of people are calling for Vance's head but lack of gap integrity, lack of discipline, and poor tackling is on the players.

The WR room has not held up to expectations. Besides Hopkins, there is no other WR on this team getting the job done on a consistent basis, Fitz included.

As I said before, K2 can't seem to call a complete game. Some of his calls and play selection make you go, HUH???

When your QB is your leading rusher in half of your games and the chunks of the yardage is from scrambling and not designed plays then you know you have problems with your Oline.

When 13 of the top 15 picks from the draft are starting and one is a QB and the other is your draft choice in a non QB position and in fact is struggling to even get on the field, then you have to wonder what the problem is.

 

[KYCardFan]

Kliff can cut his cute bubble screens too

This ain’t high school

 

[Chopper0080]

Let's bea real about something...Teddy Bridgewater showed better execution today and it wasn't because of the play calls.

 

[Russ Smith]

While I'm at it, and I love the guy too, I think we're at a point where Larry Fitzgerald's playing time is becoming an issue on this team. The problem is Fitz is backed up by Andy. Through 4 games Fitz has 14 catches in 18 targets for 88 yards and 0 TD's, 6 first downs. In 4 games playing less than half the snaps(I would guess) Andy has 8 catches in 10 targets for 117 yards, 2 TDs, 5 first downs. Fitz still has amazing hands and is a much better blocker from the slot, but at this point in his career it appears he's just not fast enough to be productive without enough speed outside to spread the defense so Fitz can work underneath. And the guy who has that speed to spread the defense, Andy, is on the sideline because Fitz is playing.

not saying bench him, saying they should probably give Andy more of his snaps. Statistically this year Murray is more effective with 2 or 3 WR than with 4. % is close but YPA is higher the first way, 3 of his 5 picks are with 4 WR, and his running numbers are better too.

So if we're going to play base 3 WR quite a bit, right now the stats say Andy needs to be getting more snaps.

 

[BritCard]

While I'm at it, and I love the guy too, I think we're at a point where Larry Fitzgerald's playing time is becoming an issue on this team. The problem is Fitz is backed up by Andy. Through 4 games Fitz has 14 catches in 18 targets for 88 yards and 0 TD's, 6 first downs. In 4 games playing less than half the snaps(I would guess) Andy has 8 catches in 10 targets for 117 yards, 2 TDs, 5 first downs. Fitz still has amazing hands and is a much better blocker from the slot, but at this point in his career it appears he's just not fast enough to be productive without enough speed outside to spread the defense so Fitz can work underneath. And the guy who has that speed to spread the defense, Andy, is on the sideline because Fitz is playing.

not saying bench him, saying they should probably give Andy more of his snaps. Statistically this year Murray is more effective with 2 or 3 WR than with 4. % is close but YPA is higher the first way, 3 of his 5 picks are with 4 WR, and his running numbers are better too.

So if we're going to play base 3 WR quite a bit, right now the stats say Andy needs to be getting more snaps.

Isabella had 24 snaps yesterday. Almost as many as he had last week. He had 2 catches for 3 yards. Although Kyler missed him open a couple of times. Still, I wouldn't be so pushed to bench him. Fitz was open a bunch too. Kyler can't hit the middle at the moment.

 

[Russ Smith]

Isabella had 24 snaps yesterday. Almost as many as he had last week. He had 2 catches for 3 yards. Although Kyler missed him open a couple of times. Still, I wouldn't be so pushed to bench him. Fitz was open a bunch too. Kyler can't hit the middle at the moment.

I don't have yesterdays but through 3 weeks Fitz had 182 snaps, Andy 54. Like I very clearly said I am NOT saying Bench Fitz, I'm saying him getting over 80% of the snaps, and Andy about 25(through 3 games) might be an issue. We seem to be a more effective offense right now with 2 or 3 Wr on the field. The base seems to be 3, and that means more often than not Fitz on the field and Andy on the sideline which greatly limits the speed we have on offense.

You keep saying he overthrew Andy the one that Andy dropped was on Andy he lost his footing or it's a TD. But for the game Fitz had 2 catches for 4 yards, yes Kyler missed him on the first play and probably didn't see him on some others but at this point in his career I don't think he's fast enough to be on the field this much. It should be much closer to 50/50 with him and Andy to get more speed out there IMO.

 

[BritCard]

I don't have yesterdays but through 3 weeks Fitz had 182 snaps, Andy 54. Like I very clearly said I am NOT saying Bench Fitz, I'm saying him getting over 80% of the snaps, and Andy about 25(through 3 games) might be an issue. We seem to be a more effective offense right now with 2 or 3 Wr on the field. The base seems to be 3, and that means more often than not Fitz on the field and Andy on the sideline which greatly limits the speed we have on offense.

You keep saying he overthrew Andy the one that Andy dropped was on Andy he lost his footing or it's a TD. But for the game Fitz had 2 catches for 4 yards, yes Kyler missed him on the first play and probably didn't see him on some others but at this point in his career I don't think he's fast enough to be on the field this much. It should be much closer to 50/50 with him and Andy to get more speed out there IMO.

I've not said Kyler overthrew that pass. I don't think I've mentioned it.

Isabella didn't stumble and lose pace on that attempt, he could see he wasn't getting there and dived for it. It was slightly overthrown, certainly Isabella was never going to catch it in stride and house it. But Isabella also should have caught it on the dive. Was mediocre both sides.

Here's another one of the many issues with this offense. Why, on 3rd down, are you throwing low percentage passes to a 2nd year receiver with barely 100 snaps in the NFL while Hopkins (who was lined up outside) draws coverage infield to give the 1 on 1?

That should have been the reverse. Isabella should have been drawing coverage inside and Nuk one on one with the CB. They Murray doesn't have to throw a perfect pass in stride, he could throw anything to Nuk and the odds of him coming down with it are about 10x greater than Isabella.

 

[ReasonableMan]

When did Fitz get so slow?
Regardless, he’s not actually playing poorly. He’s always right where he needs to be to get the next set of downs and is often open. Murray has bad decision making skills and throws soft.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've not said Kyler overthrew that pass. I don't think I've mentioned it.

Isabella didn't stumble and lose pace on that attempt, he could see he wasn't getting there and dived for it. It was slightly overthrown, certainly Isabella was never going to catch it in stride and house it. But Isabella also should have caught it on the dive. Was mediocre both sides.

Here's another one of the many issues with this offense. Why, on 3rd down, are you throwing low percentage passes to a 2nd year receiver with barely 100 snaps in the NFL while Hopkins (who was lined up outside) draws coverage infield to give the 1 on 1?

That should have been the reverse. Isabella should have been drawing coverage inside and Nuk one on one with the CB. They Murray doesn't have to throw a perfect pass in stride, he could throw anything to Nuk and the odds of him coming down with it are about 10x greater than Isabella.

Confused you with someone else sorry. yes he lost his footing when he tried to track the ball.

I have zero issue with the decision to throw that, if Andy doesn't lose his footing it's a TD.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Haven’t been posting much here lately... But, gotta chime in on the continued failings of this franchise.

I get the reflex of many here is to make excuses and minimize what took place yesterday. However, I can’t do that. I have not been on board with the Kliff hire since he was hired. And I remain in the anti-Kliff camp as I see very little, perhaps nothing, to suggest he should be considered a NFL caliber head coach... To me, he seems more interested in his GQ appearance than he does in actually improving this team...

People excuse away his play-calling... I can’t. It is terrible. There is zero excuse for Larry have less than 5 total yards over his last two games. Zero excuse for your QB completing 24 passes but only producing 133 yards. Yes, Kyler is to blame as well. But Kliff is supposed to be the “new age,” “never seen before” offensive guru...

As for Kyler... well, until someone can fix his horrendous throwing mechanics, he will never be a consistent quality passer.
Aside from that, he is now clearly confused and his brain is on tilt...
His pre and post-snap reads are terrible and almost always wrong.

The offense is a serious, serious problem. And I believe the Kliff & Kyler experiment is in jeopardy of being exposed as a far-flung, last-ditch Hail Mary by Keim...

 

[Bkbobo]

When is Maxx coming back? Seems the offense hasn't been the same since he has been out.

 

[Russ Smith]

When did Fitz get so slow?
Regardless, he’s not actually playing poorly. He’s always right where he needs to be to get the next set of downs and is often open. Murray has bad decision making skills and throws soft.

I get that he's open sometimes and not getting the ball, i think in part because Hopkins is just so good when in doubt throw to him.

Fitz is not making enough impact to be playing over 80% of the snaps right now is my point. His longest catch this year is 12 yards. The one Kyler missed him on first play would have been his longest catch of the season. He still has great hands, still want him on the team, just don't think he should be playing as many snaps as he is because we have a severe lack of speed on offense IMO.

 

[Buckybird]

Confused you with someone else sorry. yes he lost his footing when he tried to track the ball.

I have zero issue with the decision to throw that, if Andy doesn't lose his footing it's a TD.

Totally agree it was a perfect pass. Clearly Andy was stumbling trying to race it down.