This Sunday VS Detroit

Will You Attend The Lions Game

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 43.5%
  • No

    Votes: 26 56.5%

  • Total voters
    46

PoolBoy

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For those who have season tickets or were planning on going to this game when the schedule came out.
 

Totally_Red

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A more inclusive question would be - Are you attending or watching this week's Cardinal's game? The answer is yes because I want to see if Brian Hoyer can actually get us a couple of first downs.
 

BigRedRage

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Ill be there protecting the nest, my fandom does not waiver and the players on D need me.
 

Duckjake

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A more inclusive question would be - Are you attending or watching this week's Cardinal's game? The answer is yes because I want to see if Brian Hoyer can actually get us a couple of first downs.

Good point. A practice game with starters and regular schemes instead of plain vanilla and both teams trying, at least at first, to win. So unlike pre season we can get a real indication as to what Kelemete brings to the field. It would be good to see Hoyer as well but do you think CKW will have him play? I'd also like to see LaRon get some looks but I don't think the Cards will change anything doing, right or wrong, what they think gives them best chance to win.

So Kelemete, Massie and Potter playing together makes it worth watching for me.
 
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Cardinals.Ken

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Good point. A practice game with starters and regular schemes instead of plain vanilla and both teams trying, at least at first, to win. So unlike pre season we can get a real indication as to what Kelemete brings to the field. It would be good to see Hoyer as well but do you think CKW will have him play? I'd also like to see LaRon get some looks but I don't think the Cards will change anything doing, right or wrong, what they think gives them best chance to win.

So Kelemete, Massie and Potter playing together makes it worth watching for me.

Scott Wedige is slated to start at center, not Kelemete.
 

Brian in Mesa

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My wife and I will be there the next two weeks. We go to all the games, even the preseason. We're hoping for wins too. Both Detroit and Chicago are winnable games, especially Chicago with a banged-up and/or concussed Cutler. The last week of the season we play San Fran who will be coming off a just announced Sunday Night game up in Seattle the week before. As fans we're hoping for a 3 game win streak to close out this awful season. Screw the draft until the final game is over and our draft position is set.
 

BillsCarnage

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If you have season tix, why would you not go if there are not circumstances that prevent you from going?

And empty seat does no good for a boycott when the $$ is already spent.
 

splitsecond

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I'll be there. Tailgating this time. My buddy is breaking out his fresh home brew. I've got some sign building to do!
 
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If you have season tix, why would you not go if there are not circumstances that prevent you from going?

And empty seat does no good for a boycott when the $$ is already spent.
:yeahthat:

On another note: watching the Steelers lose at home, I couldn't help but notice how empty the stands were during the entire second half. Weak.
 

kerouac9

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I would go if I had tickets and my wife would let me. :crackwhip:

The best argument for going to the game is the matchup of Patrick Peterson and Megatron. The best wide receiver in the game against arguably the best young cover corner (yes, Cleveland corner Joe Haden has something to say about this). Maybe it'll get covered during the broadcast (if we get a chance to see it), but that's a down-by-down matchup that I'd like to watch live and key on.
 

Chopper0080

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I would go if I had tickets and my wife would let me. :crackwhip:

The best argument for going to the game is the matchup of Patrick Peterson and Megatron. The best wide receiver in the game against arguably the best young cover corner (yes, Cleveland corner Joe Haden has something to say about this). Maybe it'll get covered during the broadcast (if we get a chance to see it), but that's a down-by-down matchup that I'd like to watch live and key on.

Agreed on Peterson vs. Megatron (who I think will have a big game). I also love to watch Daryl Washington and Calais Campbell play. I expect to see the Cardinals destroy the Lions offensive line.
 

MadCardDisease

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Wife booked something for this Sunday so I gave my tickets to a Cards fan here at work.
 

desertdawg

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I don't think I would make it to halftime. Homeschool for the rest of the year here, tell me when Whiz is gone.
 

Superfuzz

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Joe Haden has something to say about PP21 being the best young cover corner in the game?

Well, Larry Fitz has something to say about Calvin Johnson being the best WR in the game. Let's not forget Calvin actually plays on a functional offense.
 

kerouac9

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Joe Haden has something to say about PP21 being the best young cover corner in the game?

Well, Larry Fitz has something to say about Calvin Johnson being the best WR in the game. Let's not forget Calvin actually plays on a functional offense.

:rolleyes: Larry was surpassed by Megatron when he was being moderately successful last year. This year, Larry needs to worry about A.J. Green and Julio Jones closing in on him.

Megatron is Andre Johnson without the balky hamstrings.
 

Duckjake

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Scott Wedige is slated to start at center, not Kelemete.

I was hoping the Cards would start SNYDER at Center and let Kelemete get some reps at GUARD. But of course Kelemete will be inactive while some guy from the Bengals practice squad who is now on his 3rd team this season starts at Center. :(

Wait a minute. That fits in perfectly with the Cards maybe having a QB starting who is on his third team this season. :D

You gotta love Cardinal football.
 
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Kel Varnsen

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I would go if I had tickets and my wife would let me. :crackwhip:

The best argument for going to the game is the matchup of Patrick Peterson and Megatron. The best wide receiver in the game against arguably the best young cover corner (yes, Cleveland corner Joe Haden has something to say about this). Maybe it'll get covered during the broadcast (if we get a chance to see it), but that's a down-by-down matchup that I'd like to watch live and key on.

Are we sure Fox is even sending a crew to this one?
 

Superfuzz

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:rolleyes: Larry was surpassed by Megatron when he was being moderately successful last year. This year, Larry needs to worry about A.J. Green and Julio Jones closing in on him.

Megatron is Andre Johnson without the balky hamstrings.


Let me phrase it this way: Larry would be considered as much of a threat as C. Johnson right now if he were on the Lions the past two years instead of Calvin. He'd have at least the same stats, IMO.

Please. Larry was "moderately successful" with Kolb and Skelton of all people...

Larry had over 1,000 yards with Hall, DA and Skelton in 2010.

How successful do you think CJ would be here in AZ with our situation? Yeah, I'm sure Calvin would be on pace for 1,500 yards receiving, 15 Tds and 100 catches with Lindley throwing him the ball in triple coverage while the three-man rush just about sacks him.

Remember, even Early Doucet liked look a pretty good slot receiver when he had Warner throwing to him. A great talent like Calvin coupled with a great talent like Stafford equals elite. Just like Kurt and Larry.

The worst part about Larry's situation is that he can't even get his hands on the ball if 10 other guys aren't doing their jobs. At least all Scott Mitchell had to do was not mess up the handoff to Barry Sanders - he could then make up for the OL with his elite talent, just like Kurt and Larry did for our OL in previous years.

Sheesh, Whiz, Graves,Grimm, Skelton Lindley, Batiste et al drive this team into the ground, and everyone's ready to dump on Larry...give the man a break! He was only on pace to equal or surpass Jerry Rice's records through the first 6 years of his career (5 of which were with Warner as his primary QB)

There is no way anyone in the league is "head and shoulders" better than Larry in terms of talent if they are better than him at all. In other words, CJ might be a better race car driver than Larry marginally, but if he's driving a Formula 1 car, and Larry's in a Honda Civic, you can't definitively or fairly make that statement.
 

kerouac9

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Let me phrase it this way: Larry would be considered as much of a threat as C. Johnson right now if he were on the Lions the past two years instead of Calvin. He'd have at least the same stats, IMO.

Please. Larry was "moderately successful" with Kolb and Skelton of all people...

Larry had over 1,000 yards with Hall, DA and Skelton in 2010.

How successful do you think CJ would be here in AZ with our situation? Yeah, I'm sure Calvin would be on pace for 1,500 yards receiving, 15 Tds and 100 catches with Lindley throwing him the ball in triple coverage while the three-man rush just about sacks him.

Remember, even Early Doucet liked look a pretty good slot receiver when he had Warner throwing to him. A great talent like Calvin coupled with a great talent like Stafford equals elite. Just like Kurt and Larry.

The worst part about Larry's situation is that he can't even get his hands on the ball if 10 other guys aren't doing their jobs. At least all Scott Mitchell had to do was not mess up the handoff to Barry Sanders - he could then make up for the OL with his elite talent, just like Kurt and Larry did for our OL in previous years.

Sheesh, Whiz, Graves,Grimm, Skelton Lindley, Batiste et al drive this team into the ground, and everyone's ready to dump on Larry...give the man a break! He was only on pace to equal or surpass Jerry Rice's records through the first 6 years of his career (5 of which were with Warner as his primary QB)

There is no way anyone in the league is "head and shoulders" better than Larry in terms of talent if they are better than him at all. In other words, CJ might be a better race car driver than Larry marginally, but if he's driving a Formula 1 car, and Larry's in a Honda Civic, you can't definitively or fairly make that statement.

This is insanity. Larry remains a very good talent, but his demands on his quarterback make him currently a liability to the team's effort to win games. Our shoddy QBs are trying to force-feed Fitz for 12 targets when he's triple-covered.

Megatron is bigger and faster than Larry, with a larger catching radius and bigger vertical. What are the things that Larry Fitzgerald can do that Megatron can't, exactly?

And I'm not saying that Fitz sux. He remains a very, very good player. But Hall of Fame players don't get rated behind Andre Roberts and 88th in the NFL in DVOA regardless of what their quarterback situations are.
 

Chopper0080

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Let me phrase it this way: Larry would be considered as much of a threat as C. Johnson right now if he were on the Lions the past two years instead of Calvin. He'd have at least the same stats, IMO.

Please. Larry was "moderately successful" with Kolb and Skelton of all people...

Larry had over 1,000 yards with Hall, DA and Skelton in 2010.

How successful do you think CJ would be here in AZ with our situation? Yeah, I'm sure Calvin would be on pace for 1,500 yards receiving, 15 Tds and 100 catches with Lindley throwing him the ball in triple coverage while the three-man rush just about sacks him.

Remember, even Early Doucet liked look a pretty good slot receiver when he had Warner throwing to him. A great talent like Calvin coupled with a great talent like Stafford equals elite. Just like Kurt and Larry.

The worst part about Larry's situation is that he can't even get his hands on the ball if 10 other guys aren't doing their jobs. At least all Scott Mitchell had to do was not mess up the handoff to Barry Sanders - he could then make up for the OL with his elite talent, just like Kurt and Larry did for our OL in previous years.

Sheesh, Whiz, Graves,Grimm, Skelton Lindley, Batiste et al drive this team into the ground, and everyone's ready to dump on Larry...give the man a break! He was only on pace to equal or surpass Jerry Rice's records through the first 6 years of his career (5 of which were with Warner as his primary QB)

There is no way anyone in the league is "head and shoulders" better than Larry in terms of talent if they are better than him at all. In other words, CJ might be a better race car driver than Larry marginally, but if he's driving a Formula 1 car, and Larry's in a Honda Civic, you can't definitively or fairly make that statement.

Sorry, but Calvin Johnson is bigger, faster, and stronger than Larry Fitzgerald. Larry might be more pollished, but Calvin is such a freak it doesn't hinder him if he is not the most technically sound player.
 

Superfuzz

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This is insanity. Larry remains a very good talent, but his demands on his quarterback make him currently a liability to the team's effort to win games. Our shoddy QBs are trying to force-feed Fitz for 12 targets when he's triple-covered.

Megatron is bigger and faster than Larry, with a larger catching radius and bigger vertical. What are the things that Larry Fitzgerald can do that Megatron can't, exactly?

And I'm not saying that Fitz sux. He remains a very, very good player. But Hall of Fame players don't get rated behind Andre Roberts and 88th in the NFL in DVOA regardless of what their quarterback situations are.

Larry is widely regarded as the better route-runner in the league, for starters, CJ is the taller and larger physical specimen: he by virtue of being an elite NFL WR has a greater range than Larry would have a greater range simply because he is 2 inches taller, even if we can determine that their vertical is exactly the same. So yes, he has physical advantages that cannot be erased, but Larry is able to do nearly as much with less, which is why he's better at something like route running: he's worked hard to make up for his physical "shortcomings" (if you can even call it that). Here's a great analysis of one of Larry's finest route-running moments that we all remember:http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/01/deep-crossing-route-larry-fitzgerald.html

DVOA for WRs measures and weights the significance of the yards gained by plays in which they advance the ball. As you know, significance is added per situation (i.e. throwing to Larry for 20 yards on 3rd and 29 is worth less than throwing to him for 6 on 3rd and 4 or even 6 on 1st and 10). Roberts, Floyd and Doucet are all ranked ahead of Larry in 2012, does this mean that they are better receivers? No, because the one of the things that DVOA does not account for is how many players are covering a WR. I.e., it won't tell you that Lindley tried to force it in there, giving Fitz, CJ or whoever he's throwing it to very little chance IF he catches it, to do anything positive. If I am throwing behind my receiver, he's making a great catch in front of three Seahawks and then he gets promptly tackled for a 6 yard gain on 3rd and 10, his DVOA isn't going to be very high. Why? I made a bad decision, firstly. Secondly, I am a bad Quarterback and threw it behind him, not hitting him in stride and allowing him to gain as much yardage as possible, and thirdly, my OL and QB play are so bad that the opposing defensive coordinator can afford three or two guys to cover Larry Fitzgerald.

The reason Andre and Michael are ahead of Larry is because they are not being guarded as closely as Larry, allowing them to get free and do more with the ball when they get it. The fact that Larry can even catch the ball on those plays exposes him to lowering his DVOA. This is why single coverage is so desirable especially for possession WRs. You don't need to outrun anyone when you can outmuscle them for a first down.

Also DVOA takes into account the down. Teams are smart enough to pay extra attention to Larry on 3rd down or in the redzone, meaning that the receptions he does have (which often come on 1st and 2nd down) that result in 1st downs (like the 23 yarder on 2nd down from Lindley vs. NYJ) count for less than say Reagan Maui'a's would have if he had caught that pass on that stupid play from Skelton on 3rd down vs. Atlanta. There's a reason no one was really covering him, and that's why we threw it there and gave him an opportunity: had he caught it, they play would have been worth more DVOA against the more highly ranked ATL defense than a 23 yard play on 2nd and 10 vs. a worse Jets D (since DVOA adjusts for opposing defense's weakness or strength vs. the average)


Here's an explanation of potential problems with DVOA and DYAR by footballoutsiders:

"ISSUES WITH DVOA/DYAR
DVOA is limited by what’s included in the official NFL play-by-play or tracked by the Football Outsiders game charting project. Because we need to have the entire play-by-play of a season in order to compute DVOA and DYAR, these metrics are not yet ready to compare players of today to players throughout the league’s history. As of this writing, we have processed 21 seasons, 1991 through 2011, and we add seasons at a rate of roughly two per year (the most recent season, plus one season back into history.)
Football is a game in which nearly every action requires the work of two or more teammates -- in fact, usually 11 teammates all working in unison. Unfortunately, when it comes to individual player ratings, we are still far from the point at which we can determine the value of a player independent from the performance of his teammates. That means that when we say, "In 2011, Matt Forte had a DVOA of -5.6%, what we are really saying is “In 2011, Matt Forte, playing in Mike Martz’s offensive system with the Chicago offensive line blocking for him and Jay Cutler or Caleb Hanie selling the fake when necessary, had a DVOA of -5.6%."


And lastly, you can't raise your DVOA if Kevin Kolb misses you wide open in the Endzone on third down like he did vs. the Rams. That's not Larry's fault, but if Stafford or Warner is throwing him the ball, he gets that TD and his DVOA is raised.

Let's not forget, it's a team sport. :D

So in summation, yes, it matters VERY much how good the offense you're on is. DVOA is a more accurate stat to measure a team's offensive performance as opposed to that of an individual player.

Ryan Broyles has a higher DVOA (38.9%) than Calvin Johnson(18.2%), by the way.

Other WRs that have a higher DVOA than CJ in 2012:

Demariyus Thomas (27.4%) (Think it might have to do more with Peyton Manning and the offense than Demariyus being better than CJ and Larry Fitz?)
Lance Moore (24.2%)
Danario Alexander (42.4%)
etc...


Calvin is Ranked #1 in DYAR (refer to the previous paragraph from footballoutsiders on why that is flawed as well). Which really just means he's the best and most consistent player on one the best offenses (i.e. he is benefiting from having a competent QB and OL even though he is still elite.) He's good, but once again, someone like Larry is out of the picture because he's on the Cardinals' Offense, and Calvin is able to shine because he's on the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL behind NE, even though his team has as many wins as we do.
 

Superfuzz

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Sorry, but Calvin Johnson is bigger, faster, and stronger than Larry Fitzgerald. Larry might be more pollished, but Calvin is such a freak it doesn't hinder him if he is not the most technically sound player.

Of course it hinders him. If he was as polished as Larry, he'd be even better. And then, we might be able to say he's definitively better.

However, let's say CJ's career takes a similar trajectory to Larry's: He's already one of the best, but he then polishes his technique like Larry did when Haley got here: didn't want to rely on just physical attributes to be "one of the best", but complete the package so that he could be the best.

So CJ becomes the best route runner in the NFL and works on all aspects of his game to improve. Then, the Lions hire Mike Miller and trade for D'Anthony Batiste, Max Hall and Ryan Lindley.

All that "polishing" is for nothing. His stats go down, and all of a sudden we're all talking about AJ Green.

I'm not saying CJ isn't a talent, but don't think for one minute that if he played for the 2012 Cardinals, he'd still be considered anywhere near the best.

Just something to consider. Stafford and that offense have more to do with his success than they get credit for. Of course he's still a beast no matter what offense he plays on. But so is Larry, even if the stats don't reflect it at the moment. That's what I'm getting at.
 
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