The Trade

cardjunkie

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ok I'm feeling better now. I was concentrating on the check book too much.
 

Stout

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He's cheaper than Kirk, but you're gonna have to provide some evidence that he's better.
I was going to argue with you and get on you for being so negative, but I recall when I hate the pick or what we do, so even arguing wouldn't be fair. Sorry you don't like what we're doing, K9.
 

Totally_Red

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This transaction is good in so many ways. I'm not sure how much is saved against the Cap but not paying an unproven Keim draft choice and given how tight the Cardinals are against the Cap every little bit helps. This is the way L.A. has been successful. I'm all for it.
 

kerouac9

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I was going to argue with you and get on you for being so negative, but I recall when I hate the pick or what we do, so even arguing wouldn't be fair. Sorry you don't like what we're doing, K9.

I just like to live in a reality-based environment. Based on all available evidence, Brown = Kirk. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that he’s an upgrade outside of him being cheaper.

I’m open to being convinced tho.
 

don7031

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If Brown works out the Cardinals will have to pay him in two years. Brown, Hopkins and Murray will eat a third of the salary cap in 2024. That's untenable. So either Brown doesn't get paid or Hopkins gets released. Best case scenario is the Cardinals are right back where they were coming into this draft; looking for a #2 wide receiver.

Is this a move to get Kyler to play without a new contract? If they intend to give Murray what he wants, that just takes a dump truck full of money.

The Ravens used the pick they got from the Cardinals to nab the best center in the draft. Two very different philosophies in action.
 

kerouac9

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If Brown works out the Cardinals will have to pay him in two years. Brown, Hopkins and Murray will eat a third of the salary cap in 2024. That's untenable. So either Brown doesn't get paid or Hopkins gets released. Best case scenario is the Cardinals are right back where they were coming into this draft; looking for a #2 wide receiver.

Is this a move to get Kyler to play without a new contract? If they intend to give Murray what he wants, that just takes a dump truck full of money.

The Ravens used the pick they got from the Cardinals to nab the best center in the draft. Two very different philosophies in action.
If brown works out Hopkins won’t be on the roster in two years
 

Krangodnzr

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If Brown works out the Cardinals will have to pay him in two years. Brown, Hopkins and Murray will eat a third of the salary cap in 2024. That's untenable. So either Brown doesn't get paid or Hopkins gets released. Best case scenario is the Cardinals are right back where they were coming into this draft; looking for a #2 wide receiver.

Is this a move to get Kyler to play without a new contract? If they intend to give Murray what he wants, that just takes a dump truck full of money.

The Ravens used the pick they got from the Cardinals to nab the best center in the draft. Two very different philosophies in action.
If the Cardinals are paying Brown, he's probably replacing Hopkins as top paid receiver and Cardinals are drafting a guy.
 

oaken1

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Releasing Hopkins would only save $8m in 2023, unless he completely washed he’ll see his contract through.
But if they cut him post June first they can accelerate the dead money from 24...putting it all into the year kyler and hollywood are in their 5th year. Then their cap hits come the following season...?
 

gmabel830

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He's cheaper than Kirk, but you're gonna have to provide some evidence that he's better.

I said in another thread that Brown is basically a Kirk replacement with more home run/take top off the defense ability. I haven’t compared Kirk vs Brown in terms of number of long yardage catches, but that’s just my perception.
 

K1Day1

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If you play blackjack (or even if you don’t) when you’re dealt a blackjack (21) and the dealer has an ace showing you can take (win) even money and end the hand. If you decline and the dealer has 21 it’s a push (draw) and no money is won or lost. If the dealer has less than 21, you win 1.5 times your bet. Last night the Cards took even money. They went for the sure thing selection and made a trade. They gave up 5 years of control and settled for 2 years of certainty.

Why? Well first, because all the players likely to have a significant, immediate impact were gone. You could argue for Wyatt but he’d be something of a gamble to be high impact. Then there’s the Johnson mystery. I’ve have asked and so far, at least, there is no smoking gun. I’ll post more on Johnson separately. For the moment and using Occam’s Razor, I’m proceeding with the premise the Cards entered the draft fully intending to come out of round 1 with an immediate impact receiver. For my money only Olave, Wilson and maybe London fit that description. I’m quite sure they had the Brown option in their pocket all along, but if they saw that as their main intention they would have made the trade earlier. Perhaps they would have done so before the draft. Waiting might have meant the Ravens would get a better offer.

So, when their receiver targets were gone, there was possibly only one remaining issue, the third round pick. Frankly this selection made the trade even more appealing. As I noted during the draft, here in Nashville both of the old time gurus and the former full-time scout at this event, all liked the trade from the AZ side and hated it from the Ravens side.

What made this trade good? First Brown is a proven commodity. He’s not Hopkins and he drops some throws, but he’s productive. He’s a sure thing.

Second, he’s improved every year and plays on a team where he’s often going against the opponent’s top corner. He’ll be now playing in a passing oriented offense, surrounded by other threats.

Third, he’s a true deep threat. Every season he’s scored at least one long TD. He spreads the field creating opportunities for others. Getting multiple defenders to turn their backs should help the running game as well.

Fourth, Murray knows him. There’s no denying Murray doesn’t easily trust WRs. So, getting someone with whom Murray already has rapport is significant. This should pay immediate dividends. I’ve seen Murray criticized for orchestrating the trade. Frankly, every QB I’ve known had favorite targets. In this case there were so many reasons for making this trade, Murray was just a contributing factor.

Finally, there was the sandwich pick. Did you ever wonder why so many pre-draft article were called “The Top 150?” It’s because in the typical draft 150 would encompass all the immediately useful players. So pick 100 is not a throw in. It’s most often at least a useful role player or developmental prospect. Suppose you wanted a punter? You could take Matt Araiza, who averages over 51 yards a kick. Those Aussies have big legs, but if you want immediate productivity look at this stat line. 67 total punts: 46.0 yards per punt, 35 inside the 20 yard line, only 3 touchbacks and 30 fair catches (44.8%). That’s Jordan Stout from Penn State. Araiza frequently out-kicks his coverage. It’s just physics and also he has too many touchbacks. Need an RB? You’ve likely have either James Cook or Brian Robinson on the board. Then there’s Alontae Taylor is a corner with ballhawking potential. He’s raw but could develop some smooth. He would contribute immediately on special teams. Wyatt Davis offers a G with run blocking ability and is decent in pass protection. He’s a little still, but plays with good physicality. It’s easy to get lost at a weak program, especially when injured. Dayo Odeyingbo is an Edge with starter potential, but he’s a project. He didn’t get good college coaching IMO, but he’s got the raw ingredients. My point here is there are valuable players to be had at this stage in the draft. This is a useful pick.

In the end this trade does one more thing. It ends the discussion about whether Murray is the long term plan at QB. He is. Sure there’s still contracts to get done, but those are now formalities. This provides the long term stability this team has lacked. I still have concerns about some aspects of Murray’s contributions, but the Cards have moved past them and the rest of us must simply accept that reality.
Like your post however, I'll try and sum up what I took from your post in my perspective. But, this is just my take..
I for one am not a big fan of Keim drafting at the WR position (Take Kyler Murray out of this situtation (Even though most that post on this board seem to think Absolutely EVERYTHING the Cardinals do now is about Kyler Murray. That's doesn't apply here.) This was a move Keim needed to make).
Steve Keim has been a much better GM trading for the WR position than he has been drafting that position...
I will not fault Keim for not doing the same thing he has done year after year after year and expecting a different result. For Once Keim actually played to his strengths. IMO... Marquise Brown might not be The Greatest move however he's a whole lot better than watching the same WR draft picks year after year and fans posting about how the new draft picks are going to be great only to see the exact same thing (Good for Keim for once seeing his strength at trading for that position).
I for one will take a 3rd year 1,000 yard reciever No matter who is the Cards QB (Even at number 23) before I would be okay with suffering another disappointing draft class of bad recievers.
 
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