The Positive Kyler Murray News Thread

Krangodnzr

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They don’t have a ton of cap space in 2024. They have enough to trade Kyler and field a team. They don’t have enough to keep Kyler and significantly upgrade the roster nor do they have enough to trade Kyler and put together a competitive team (7.5 win O/U)
Pray tell how much of the core players are free agents? I'll answer from what I see: not many. Pretty much just pay Hollywood and then upgrade the roster. Also helps to have six top 100 picks.

The Cardinals can even cut a few contracts and get even more cap space without losing much.

It's #fakenews to even really suggest otherwise.
 

Krangodnzr

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Obviously the latter.

However, the economic approach of how you rebuild your team is just as important as is the player personnel approach.

Using your strategy, which assumes Murray plays reasonably well this year, think of what additional pieces the Cardinals could add since part of the 2024 cap will not be used for a rookie QB.

It's not a huge amount (I bet the 2024 cap hit for the #1 or #2 player will be like 15 million or so), but in the NFL, where the line between winning and losing is razor thin, every player personnel and cap hit decision matters. Big time.
Not even that much. Bryce Young got four year, $37 million. You could back load the contract too, to make the contract even more palatable short term.

If the Cardinals can end up with two top four picks and draft well, this can be a real quick turnaround, if Murray can return to form. I think it's clear that Monti looked at this season as a lost year. Why sign anyone to 1) hurt the value of the Cardinals pick 2) waste a year of paying someone...when you can rollover that money to next year, take some lumps and improve dramatically next year?
 

BritCard

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They don’t have a ton of cap space in 2024. They have enough to trade Kyler and field a team. They don’t have enough to keep Kyler and significantly upgrade the roster nor do they have enough to trade Kyler and put together a competitive team (7.5 win O/U)

Spotrac has us at $89m in cap space without this year's rollover and without any cuts, restructures or extensions that might extend it further.

I'm not sure how that's "not a ton".
 

Krangodnzr

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They don’t have a ton of cap space in 2024. They have enough to trade Kyler and field a team. They don’t have enough to keep Kyler and significantly upgrade the roster nor do they have enough to trade Kyler and put together a competitive team (7.5 win O/U)
 

PJ1

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Even if Monti puts Kyler on the market the offer is going to be shut. IMO. While Kyler's performance will certainly matter why is some GM going to offer a blockbuster when Monti has established a history of letting a player like Hopkins walk for nothing. Just wait.
Depends on whether there is competition to trade for KM.
 

Krangodnzr

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Spotrac has us at $89m in cap space without this year's rollover and without any cuts, restructures or extensions that might extend it further.

I'm not sure how that's "not a ton".
OTC has it down at $69 million.

I was reading about which site is more accurate and the general consensus is that both sites are using educated guesses since neither have access to the actual contracts to know how the contracts are fully structured.
 

Krangodnzr

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Even if Monti puts Kyler on the market the offer is going to be shut. IMO. While Kyler's performance will certainly matter why is some GM going to offer a blockbuster when Monti has established a history of letting a player like Hopkins walk for nothing. Just wait.
How much value did an older WR with a big cap number have? Especially with how Hopkins was acting and his reputation for not being a player who often participated in practice?

I think his value was probably early day three pick and Monti held out for more until no one had the budget for him. I can understand that stance, because I would have wanted more for Hopkins as well.
 

RON_IN_OC

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OTC has it down at $69 million.

I was reading about which site is more accurate and the general consensus is that both sites are using educated guesses since neither have access to the actual contracts to know how the contracts are fully structured.
That's weird, because I've heard contracts are public knowledge after.they are filed with NFL and NFLPA...it's how Florio dissects them, like an attorney.
 

Krangodnzr

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That's weird, because I've heard contracts are public knowledge after.they are filed with NFL and NFLPA...it's how Florio dissects them, like an attorney.
The overall details, but not the finer details. Agents have access to them, but the general public only gets to read/hear snippets of what is posted by agents.
 

BritCard

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OTC has it down at $69 million.

I was reading about which site is more accurate and the general consensus is that both sites are using educated guesses since neither have access to the actual contracts to know how the contracts are fully structured.

In this case the difference is in the estimated cap. OT has $256m. Spotrac has $274m.

Either way, with rollover were talking $80-$100m.

We won't have the most, but with 37 players signed and 12 draft picks we won't need the most.
 

bankybruce

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The cap hit isn't unmanageable. I've seen that if you trade him post-June 1st it's much less, but that of course means the dead cap spreads over two years.

The Cardinals could absorb that hit with all the cap space they have.

Yes they can, but then it pushes the rebuild a year back since it won't leave money for free agency. Of course, that could be the plan with 2025 being the year. Three full drafts, rookie QB in year two and lots of cap space.
 

Krangodnzr

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In this case the difference is in the estimated cap. OT has $256m. Spotrac has $274m.

Either way, with rollover were talking $80-$100m.

We won't have the most, but with 37 players signed and 12 draft picks we won't need the most.
Pretty stacked free agent class too.


Sign me up for some Chris Jones.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yes they can, but then it pushes the rebuild a year back since it won't leave money for free agency. Of course, that could be the plan with 2025 being the year. Three full drafts, rookie QB in year two and lots of cap space.
Agreed, but you have to have contingency plans. The way things are playing out, the Cardinals have a ton of flexibility. They would have lost flexibility if they had foolishly signed some free agents this year during a lost season.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Agreed, but you have to have contingency plans. The way things are playing out, the Cardinals have a ton of flexibility. They would have lost flexibility if they had foolishly signed some free agents this year during a lost season.

Agree, and in my opinion, not going big in FA was less about losing games intentionally in 2023, and more about being in a position from a 2024 cap space standpoint to make a big push for that year.

It's a subtle difference, but I think one that is lost to some on this board.
 

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Agree, and in my opinion, not going big in FA was less about losing games intentionally in 2023, and more about being in a position from a 2024 cap space standpoint to make a big push for that year.

It's a subtle difference, but I think one that is lost to some on this board.
Maybe that argument gets lost… because the same exact people made the exact same argument last year when we also pretty much punted on FA.

And probably will again next off-season. Expecting the Cardinals to become big FA spenders next year is very confusing to me.
 
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Krangodnzr

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Maybe that argument gets lost… because the same people made the exact same argument last year when we pretty much punted on FA.
Well it doesn't take a sharp mind to see the difference. When your starting QB is going to be out a significant amount of team on an already perceived bad team, why spend? You can roll over the money.
 

Crimson Warrior

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$9.5 for Bryce Young
$9.3 for Travon Walker

2024 will still be under $10m

Here are your options for 2024

Choice #1 - go with:

1. K1 - A QB that has proven he can play like a top ten NFL QB.
2. An elite player with the pick you don't use on a QB
3. + 10 million in cap space because your 2024 cap hit at QB is still just 46 million

Or

1. Caleb Williams (if he'll even play for us) - NFL ability? Unknown.
2. 10 million in lost cap space because your 2024 cap hit for the QB position is now 56 million, 10 million higher than it needed to be.

What an easy, easy choice. Unless Kyler just absolutely crashes and burns which I think is all but impossible, it's an easy, easy choice my friend.

Get ready to cheer for Kyler Murray for at least the next 32 games.
 

GatorAZ

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Here are your options for 2024

Choice #1 - go with:

1. K1 - A QB that has proven he can play like a top ten NFL QB.
2. An elite player with the pick you don't use on a QB
3. + 10 million in cap space because your 2024 cap hit at QB is still just 46 million

Or

1. Caleb Williams (if he'll even play for us) - NFL ability? Unknown.
2. 10 million in lost cap space because your 2024 cap hit for the QB position is now 56 million, 10 million higher than it needed to be.

What an easy, easy choice. Unless Kyler just absolutely crashes and burns which I think is all but impossible, it's an easy, easy choice my friend.

Get ready to cheer for Kyler Murray for at least the next 32 games.

Kyler’s cap hit if traded is $46m for 2024 plus an additional $180m off the books going forward. At least they left themselves an out if things go south.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Kyler’s cap hit if traded is $46m for 2024 plus an additional $180m off the books going forward. At least they left themselves an out if things go south.

But how long until C. Williams demands a fat contact, one much richer than Murray's currently?

They myth of four years of cap control with a rookie QB is just that. A myth.
 

GatorAZ

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But how long until C. Williams demands a fat contact, one much richer than Murray's currently?

They myth of four years of cap control with a rookie QB is just that. A myth.

My best case scenario is trading the #1 pick for a haul and taking Harrison Jr #2 but I think the Bears will be picking first. Kyler coming back is probably the difference between picking top-2 and 4-5. I’d prefer to bottom out and have a better chance at giving Kyler the elite weapon he deserves.
 

Crimson Warrior

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My best case scenario is trading the #1 pick for a haul and taking Harrison Jr #2 but I think the Bears will be picking first. Kyler coming back is probably the difference between picking top-2 and 4-5. I’d prefer to bottom out and have a better chance at giving Kyler the elite weapon he deserves.

Understood. You just want what's best for the team overall and long term. Got it Gator AZ. You a Florida CFB fan?
 

Chopper0080

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Well it doesn't take a sharp mind to see the difference. When your starting QB is going to be out a significant amount of team on an already perceived bad team, why spend? You can roll over the money.
We couldn’t get our own players to re-sign here. There were several arguments that you can’t sign players who don’t want to come here. I don’t see that significantly changing. We will once again be one of the worse teams in the NFL.
 

cheesebeef

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We couldn’t get our own players to re-sign here. There were several arguments that you can’t sign players who don’t want to come here. I don’t see that significantly changing. We will once again be one of the worse teams in the NFL.
Not only that, but if we do end up pretty terrible, players will likely look at the fact that despite an entire regime change…. the Cardinals were terrible. A terrible season with a new GM probably doesn’t help sell a narrative that things are different here now.
 

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