The Mac Attack: Could Cam Newton be the Cardinals' next franchise quarterback?

chickenhead

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Not that he is worth two first round picks or anything, but wasn't the last QB on our roster who ever won a playoff game named Warner?

Heard a fun stat on the radio today:

Carson Palmer career earnings: $117 million

Carson Palmer career playoff wins: 0

Pretty sure playing for the Bengals and Raiders has something to do with that.

He also suffered a potentially career-ending ACL/MCL tear and more in his first playoff game after completing a 66 yard pass. Who knows if they would have won that game, or any others, but things also could have been a lot different for him in Cincinnati.
 

PACardsFan

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I would take Rivers, Manning, or Ryan in a heartbeat before I would taken Newton or Kaepernick.

Agree! With Newton you get:
1. Strong arm, average accuracy
2. No leadership
3. Legs that are already showing signs of erosion.

Wouldn't touch Cam Newton
 

RugbyMuffin

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Not that he is worth two first round picks or anything, but wasn't the last QB on our roster who ever won a playoff game named Warner?

Heard a fun stat on the radio today:

Carson Palmer career earnings: $117 million

Carson Palmer career playoff wins: 0

I wonder if we added up all the wins, and all the money for all the QB's not named Kurt Warner, that the Cardinals have had since Carson Palmer has been in the league what those numbers would look like comparable to Palmer.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Agree! With Newton you get:
1. Strong arm, average accuracy
2. No leadership
3. Legs that are already showing signs of erosion.

Wouldn't touch Cam Newton

I think those would be my reasons.

Newton is a enigma for myself. Some days he looks all world, and some days he looks like he should get the Kevin Kolb award for excellence.
 

cardpa

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I think those would be my reasons.

Newton is a enigma for myself. Some days he looks all world, and some days he looks like he should get the Kevin Kolb award for excellence.

I can't get past the one time I saw him throw an ugly INT into heavy coverage and the pass was maybe 15 yds and he jaunts over to the sideline and instead of going straight to his QB coach and OC he just stands around on the sideline smiling and joking with teammates instead of figuring out what in the hell happened on that play. You almost never see him sitting with coaches when the defense is on the field like you will see with the top QBs like Manning, Rogers, Brees, even Palmer. He is not a leader and never will be. He seems to me like a player who relies more on instinct than a player that can dissect a defense with his mind. That is why sometimes he looks great and other times he looks like Lindley.
 

ASUCHRIS

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So let's spend $100mil & picks for an average passing QB whos a turnover machine? Lol

I'd take door #2 & cough up a 4th or 5th for Glennon & a lot less ca$h & the results would probably be similar on the field if we continued playing good D.

Yep, good point...let's name all the qb's that were available for 4th and 5th round picks that ended up being great...lol

Again, we'll see who we end up with post Carson, and you tell me if they're better than Cam. The best you can do is Mike Glennon? Try again.
 

cardpa

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Yep, good point...let's name all the qb's that were available for 4th and 5th round picks that ended up being great...lol

Again, we'll see who we end up with post Carson, and you tell me if they're better than Cam. The best you can do is Mike Glennon? Try again.

I think the 2016 draft is where the Cardinals trade up to get a QB. If the juniors come out this will be a good QB draft.
 

kerouac9

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I think the 2016 draft is where the Cardinals trade up to get a QB. If the juniors come out this will be a good QB draft.

Hard to trade up to get an elite QB when you start at 32nd overall.

2013 1 1 16 16 E.J. Manuel Bills Florida State
2012 1 1 1 1 Andrew Luck Colts Stanford
2 1 2 2 Robert Griffin III Redskins Baylor
3 1 8 8 Ryan Tannehill Dolphins Texas A&M
4 1 22 22 Brandon Weeden Browns Oklahoma State
2011 1 1 1 1 Cam Newton Panthers Auburn
2 1 8 8 Jake Locker Titans Washington
3 1 10 10 Blaine Gabbert Jaguars Missouri
4 1 12 12 Christian Ponder Vikings Florida State
2010 1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
2009 1 1 1 1 Matthew Stafford Lions Georgia
2 1 5 5 Mark Sanchez Jets USC
3 1 17 17 Josh Freeman Buccaneers Kansas State
2008 1 1 3 3 Matt Ryan Falcons Boston College
2 1 18 18 Joe Flacco Ravens Delaware
2007 1 1 1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State
2 1 22 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame
2006 1 1 3 3 Vince Young Titans Texas
2 1 10 10 Matt Leinart Cardinals USC
3 1 11 11 Jay Cutler Broncos Vanderbilt
2005 1 1 1 1 Alex Smith 49ers Utah
2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California
3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Redskins Auburn

2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi
2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State
3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH)
4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane

2 QBs drafted in the 2nd half of the first round between 2004 and 2013 have started a playoff game. One of them was Tim Tebow.
 

juza76

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Hard to trade up to get an elite QB when you start at 32nd overall.

2013 1 1 16 16 E.J. Manuel Bills Florida State
2012 1 1 1 1 Andrew Luck Colts Stanford
2 1 2 2 Robert Griffin III Redskins Baylor
3 1 8 8 Ryan Tannehill Dolphins Texas A&M
4 1 22 22 Brandon Weeden Browns Oklahoma State
2011 1 1 1 1 Cam Newton Panthers Auburn
2 1 8 8 Jake Locker Titans Washington
3 1 10 10 Blaine Gabbert Jaguars Missouri
4 1 12 12 Christian Ponder Vikings Florida State
2010 1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
2009 1 1 1 1 Matthew Stafford Lions Georgia
2 1 5 5 Mark Sanchez Jets USC
3 1 17 17 Josh Freeman Buccaneers Kansas State
2008 1 1 3 3 Matt Ryan Falcons Boston College
2 1 18 18 Joe Flacco Ravens Delaware
2007 1 1 1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State
2 1 22 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame
2006 1 1 3 3 Vince Young Titans Texas
2 1 10 10 Matt Leinart Cardinals USC
3 1 11 11 Jay Cutler Broncos Vanderbilt
2005 1 1 1 1 Alex Smith 49ers Utah
2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California
3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Redskins Auburn

2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi
2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State
3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH)
4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane

2 QBs drafted in the 2nd half of the first round between 2004 and 2013 have started a playoff game. One of them was Tim Tebow.

there is a super bowl champion team which drafted a qb with their 1st round pick the following draft?
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Hard to trade up to get an elite QB when you start at 32nd overall.

2013 1 1 16 16 E.J. Manuel Bills Florida State
2012 1 1 1 1 Andrew Luck Colts Stanford
2 1 2 2 Robert Griffin III Redskins Baylor
3 1 8 8 Ryan Tannehill Dolphins Texas A&M
4 1 22 22 Brandon Weeden Browns Oklahoma State
2011 1 1 1 1 Cam Newton Panthers Auburn
2 1 8 8 Jake Locker Titans Washington
3 1 10 10 Blaine Gabbert Jaguars Missouri
4 1 12 12 Christian Ponder Vikings Florida State
2010 1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma
2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida
2009 1 1 1 1 Matthew Stafford Lions Georgia
2 1 5 5 Mark Sanchez Jets USC
3 1 17 17 Josh Freeman Buccaneers Kansas State
2008 1 1 3 3 Matt Ryan Falcons Boston College
2 1 18 18 Joe Flacco Ravens Delaware
2007 1 1 1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State
2 1 22 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame
2006 1 1 3 3 Vince Young Titans Texas
2 1 10 10 Matt Leinart Cardinals USC
3 1 11 11 Jay Cutler Broncos Vanderbilt
2005 1 1 1 1 Alex Smith 49ers Utah
2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California
3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Redskins Auburn
2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi
2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State
3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH)
4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane

2 QBs drafted in the 2nd half of the first round between 2004 and 2013 have started a playoff game. One of them was Tim Tebow.
It's actually 3 in Rodgers, Flacco, and Tebow but I get the point. However, there are also many 2nd and lower round picks that have started playoff games or led their team to the tournament.

Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick were all 2nd rounders. Wilson and Foles were 3rd rounders and Schaub, even though he was injured and didn't start in the playoffs, led them there as a 3rd rounder. We all know about Brady. Romo was UDFA.

I agree that the odds are stacked against a team hoping for a post top 10 draft pick to be the answer but it's not hopeless. I'm not trading up for a QB unless I'm 100% sure he's the guy and even then, it's no sure thing.
 

az jam

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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Sources: The Cam Newton mega-extension being finalized with the #Panthers right now is expected to be 5 years, more than $100M.
 

kerouac9

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It's actually 3 in Rodgers, Flacco, and Tebow but I get the point. However, there are also many 2nd and lower round picks that have started playoff games or led their team to the tournament.

Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick were all 2nd rounders. Wilson and Foles were 3rd rounders and Schaub, even though he was injured and didn't start in the playoffs, led them there as a 3rd rounder. We all know about Brady. Romo was UDFA.

I agree that the odds are stacked against a team hoping for a post top 10 draft pick to be the answer but it's not hopeless. I'm not trading up for a QB unless I'm 100% sure he's the guy and even then, it's no sure thing.

The OP that I was responding to was the Cards trading up for a QB next season.

It's worth remembering that Brees was drafted 14 years ago, and Nick Foles is probably not a good quarterback. Dalton and Kaepernick has basically been the only adequate starting QBs taken in the second rounds since Brees. The percentages of getting a good quarterback after the first 15 picks fall steeply.
 

cardpa

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The OP that I was responding to was the Cards trading up for a QB next season.

It's worth remembering that Brees was drafted 14 years ago, and Nick Foles is probably not a good quarterback. Dalton and Kaepernick has basically been the only adequate starting QBs taken in the second rounds since Brees. The percentages of getting a good quarterback after the first 15 picks fall steeply.

I am not sure they have many options after this year not to pursue a QB in the draft. Thomas looks nothing like a potential replacement for Palmer even in the wildest of scenarios unless he can pull a miracle out of his backside and Stanton is certainly not a 16 game starter. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle with one of the other two young bucks they will have in camp but that is a long shot in itself.

No one is going to trade a quality QB away when they are so hard to find. Besides the draft who may be available in FA next year or at the latest the year after that? They would be better off drafting a QB in each of the first three rounds rather than ponying up for a proven QB who is going to cost them an immense amount of money and any quality starter is either going to get franchised or transitioned and then that will cost you two first rounds picks with a qualifying offer.

How many times can you go to the well and pull a QB off the scrap heap and end up with a decent or better starter? Both Palmer and Warner pretty much came off that scrap heap. At some point they have to bite the bullet and take a gamble on a draft choice who shows potential to step in as a starter if not that year then the year after. The period between Warner and Palmer was a disaster of epic proportions.

How else could you possibly fill the position if not by one of these two methods. If the deal the Panthers are going to sign Newton to is true then what will a top tier QB cost if they are willing to give him $100M over five years? He's a middle of the road QB.

To me they have a two year window to find Palmer's replacement and it may require picking a QB in both 2016 and the 2017 draft.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I would have liked to seen the Cards trade and take Bryce Petty in round 4 instead of Rodney Gunter. I think Petty is going to be good down the road.
 

kerouac9

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I am not sure they have many options after this year not to pursue a QB in the draft. Thomas looks nothing like a potential replacement for Palmer even in the wildest of scenarios unless he can pull a miracle out of his backside and Stanton is certainly not a 16 game starter. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle with one of the other two young bucks they will have in camp but that is a long shot in itself.

No one is going to trade a quality QB away when they are so hard to find. Besides the draft who may be available in FA next year or at the latest the year after that? They would be better off drafting a QB in each of the first three rounds rather than ponying up for a proven QB who is going to cost them an immense amount of money and any quality starter is either going to get franchised or transitioned and then that will cost you two first rounds picks with a qualifying offer.

How many times can you go to the well and pull a QB off the scrap heap and end up with a decent or better starter? Both Palmer and Warner pretty much came off that scrap heap. At some point they have to bite the bullet and take a gamble on a draft choice who shows potential to step in as a starter if not that year then the year after. The period between Warner and Palmer was a disaster of epic proportions.

How else could you possibly fill the position if not by one of these two methods. If the deal the Panthers are going to sign Newton to is true then what will a top tier QB cost if they are willing to give him $100M over five years? He's a middle of the road QB.

To me they have a two year window to find Palmer's replacement and it may require picking a QB in both 2016 and the 2017 draft.

Palmer's contract is fully guaranteed the next two seasons as long as he's on the roster 5 days after the Super Bowl (or something). He's not going anywhere in 2016, and you're not drafting a QB in the first round whom you're not going to play.

Meanwhile, Jay Cutler's contract in 2017 has an acceptable cap hold of $16M--very tradeable. Joe Flacco's cap hold in 2016 nears $30M, so anything could happen in Baltimore. A lot can happen in two or three NFL years.
 

cardpa

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Palmer's contract is fully guaranteed the next two seasons as long as he's on the roster 5 days after the Super Bowl (or something). He's not going anywhere in 2016, and you're not drafting a QB in the first round whom you're not going to play.

Meanwhile, Jay Cutler's contract in 2017 has an acceptable cap hold of $16M--very tradeable. Joe Flacco's cap hold in 2016 nears $30M, so anything could happen in Baltimore. A lot can happen in two or three NFL years.

Do you really want Cutler under center? I used to be a supporter of Cutler however he has changed my opinion about him over time. Flacco would actually be a good fit in BA's offense. If Baltimore let's him go what kind of numbers do you think Flacco would be looking for? If Newton is going to get 5/$100 then Flacco is worth at least as much and probably more. I guess $20 a year for a guy like Flacco isn't too bad. I agree Palmer isn't going anywhere in 2016.

I'm not sure BASK would not draft a QB in the first and have him sit a year. I know the statement has been made that they expect a 1st rounder to start year one however there are always exceptions to the rules especially if you feel confident you can grab a guy you feel is going to be a starter for you for the next decade. Wouldn't it be nice if the team had the luxury of drafting a QB and being able to sit him a year because you are pretty well set or at least comfortable at almost all positions without any glaring needs.
 

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Do you really want Cutler under center? I used to be a supporter of Cutler however he has changed my opinion about him over time. Flacco would actually be a good fit in BA's offense. If Baltimore let's him go what kind of numbers do you think Flacco would be looking for? If Newton is going to get 5/$100 then Flacco is worth at least as much and probably more. I guess $20 a year for a guy like Flacco isn't too bad. I agree Palmer isn't going anywhere in 2016.

I'm not sure BASK would not draft a QB in the first and have him sit a year. I know the statement has been made that they expect a 1st rounder to start year one however there are always exceptions to the rules especially if you feel confident you can grab a guy you feel is going to be a starter for you for the next decade. Wouldn't it be nice if the team had the luxury of drafting a QB and being able to sit him a year because you are pretty well set or at least comfortable at almost all positions without any glaring needs.

1) I think that Cutler is exactly what Keim wants in a QB. I didn't really want Palmer that much, and Cutler is like Palmer turned up to 11.

2) I don't think that Keim wouldn't draft a good QB that fell to them, but they also passed on Teddy Bridgewater two year ago. Palmer would be under contract and guaranteed his money by that time in the draft; I just don't see this front office taking that kind of a risk--particularly in the first round.

Think for a moment how risk-averse this management group has been in the last three drafts in the first and second round. Does that really sound like a team that is going to trade multiple first-round picks to get a quarterback when they have a franchise-ish player already on the roster?
 

ajcardfan

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Do you really want Cutler under center? I used to be a supporter of Cutler however he has changed my opinion about him over time..

To me, Cutler is a less likable Jeff George, which I didn't think was even possible.

To me, to huge problem in QBs now is how differently the position is played between the NCAA and the NFL over the last ten years or so. There is a bigger and bigger difference in philosophy and it's going to be a real dilemma to find excellent pocket passers in the future.
 

cardpa

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1) I think that Cutler is exactly what Keim wants in a QB. I didn't really want Palmer that much, and Cutler is like Palmer turned up to 11.

2) I don't think that Keim wouldn't draft a good QB that fell to them, but they also passed on Teddy Bridgewater two year ago. Palmer would be under contract and guaranteed his money by that time in the draft; I just don't see this front office taking that kind of a risk--particularly in the first round.

Think for a moment how risk-averse this management group has been in the last three drafts in the first and second round. Does that really sound like a team that is going to trade multiple first-round picks to get a quarterback when they have a franchise-ish player already on the roster?

Cutler may be the type of QB Keim wants from a skillset point of view however they have talked a lot about players also having leadership skills which Cutler hasn't exhibited to any degree. I guess the question is how important to this management group are those skills and how it affects how they view a player. If Palmer is finished after 2016 Cutler will be 34 going on 35 so he won't be a spring chicken at that point. How much will he have left in the tank? I was happy to get Palmer for what he cost in draft choices. It was a very good deal and worth the gamble. As a bonus he was somewhat instrumental in bringing in Veldheer.

At some point this leadership is going to have to commit to a young QB. Can you win consistently with bringing in aged QBs and squeezing out a few more good years out of them? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it can work.

I do agree with your comment about the leadership team being very risk adverse in the drafts so far. They certainly seem to be building an Oline that will be capable of protecting Palmer which certainly indicates that they have most of their eggs in that basket. So with that said K9 how would you go about securing and solidifying the QB position for the long term?
 

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I think Palmer has at least 3 good years left. He'd be 37(turn 38 that December) in the 2017 season. He has a better arm than Brady or Manning and they were/are still very good QB's at that age and older.

Warner was 38 to start his last season.
 

kerouac9

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So with that said K9 how would you go about securing and solidifying the QB position for the long term?

I'm actually not that concerned about it. When the defense is this good, you really only need a Kyle Orton-level quarterback to get you to the playoffs. I don't get a lot of heartburn about the QB position's future for the Arizona Cardinals.

I don't think that Keim is going to want to swing for the fences. He didn't with Drew Stanton; he didn't with Logan Thomas. I think that you keep taking these little cuts while you have a player in place at the position. It makes little sense to me to be like the Pats and invest a 3rd round pick in Ryan Mallett and get no return on that after three years.
 

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The Mac Attack: Could Cam Newton be the Cardinals' next franchise quarterback?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...otPostID=['381e9384730d963f5aeecfba018e958e']

Despite all the wonderful additions the Cardinals made during the costly renovation of their Tempe training facility, something was missing Tuesday as they opened the second week of offseason organized team activities:

Their next franchise starting quarterback.

No offense to Carson Palmer, but he turns 36 in December, he's recovering from the second major reconstructive knee surgery of his career, and it's far-fetched to believe he can be an elite-level quarterback for the next three seasons. That's how many years Palmer has left on his contract, but there's no guarantee the Cardinals will even keep him around that long.

Drew Stanton is 31 and is entering the final year of his contract. He proved last year he's a capable backup – if he's healthy – but that's all he will ever be: a backup. He'll probably always have a job here as long as Bruce Arians remains the team's head coach, but it won't be as the designated starter.

That job won't ever go to Chandler Harnish or Phillip Sims, either. They're nice kids, but they are basically camp bodies filling up the bottom end of the depth chart.

That leaves us with Logan Thomas, the second-year pro out of Virginia Tech whom the Cardinals drafted in the fourth round. At 6 feet-6 inches and 250 pounds, he certainly looks the part. He has a rocket arm and can run like a deer. But he's still considered a project and there are whispers he might even lose his roster spot as the No.3 quarterback to Harnish or Sims.

So who will the Cardinals be able to turn to in another year or two?

Glad you asked.

How does Cam Newton sound?

The former Heisman Trophy winner and two-time BCS national champion could become available in 2016 or 2017, depending on what the Carolina Panthers decide to do with him.

Newton, 26, currently is working under the $14.7 million, fifth-year option from his original rookie deal. If the Panthers don't sign him to a rich extension soon, he is set to become an unrestricted free agent after this season. If they still haven't re-signed him by then, the Panthers could place the franchise tag on Newton and control his rights for an extra year at a salary that likely will cost them at least $20 million.

Carolina may also elect to use the "non-exclusive" franchise tag on Newton, which would allow him to negotiate with other NFL teams and sign an offer sheet somewhere else. And that's where this really could get interesting, considering the Panthers don't seem to be in any rush to ink Newton to a long-term deal.

Newton may be the one who's actually holding up contract talks. He and his representatives are likely waiting to see what kind of deals the Colts give Andrew Luck and the Seahawks give Russell Wilson. That could set the bar for what Newton will be asking and it figures to be somewhere in the $25 million-a-year range.

But the Panthers could pass. Given that he's had an up-and-down career thus far – he's 30-31-1 as a starter – they might be more than willing to let him go the offer-sheet route. That way, they have the right to either match the terms of the offer and retain Newton or let him walk and collect two valuable first-round draft picks as compensation.

And yes, those two first-round picks would come from the team that signs Newton.

Would that be something the Cardinals would consider if such a scenario were to occur? They'd be crazy not to. At 6-6, 260, Newton is bigger than most edge rushers who try to bring him to the ground. His upside is tremendous.

Newton's full talents haven't been allowed to shine in Carolina because the Panthers simply haven't done enough to protect him and they haven't put the proper personnel around him to truly let him succeed. The Cardinals have the surrounding cast to take Newton's game to the next level.

They are built to win now and adding a quarterback like Newton in another year, maybe two, extends their window of opportunity by another seven to eight years instead of the one or two they presently have with Palmer.

2-time BCS champion? He rode the pine at Florida. While technically correct, way to pad the stats.
 

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