The Head Coach and the Star Players Don't Get It

[ASUCHRIS]

Mitch, always enjoy reading your stuff, but I disagree to some extent with what you're saying. I'm not saying you're wrong, I think it's a matter of personal taste. If I wanted snappy lines and fire and emotion from the coach I'd still be wishing we had Denny Green. Buddy Ryan was good at that too. Now is the worst time possible to get emotional and start blaming people, even if they're just blaming themselves (more on that in a bit). It's actually Whiz's calmness and steadiness--he's always the same, win or lose--that keeps me hopeful, along with our remaining schedule. If he came out and said all the things you want him to say, I'd be even more worried. I don't want to be right about what's going on with this team, I really don't, because if it's that simple and stupid as we all seem to think then Whiz truly isn't a very good coach.

There's a difference between die-hard fans and a coach and players. I expect shrill proclamations from die-hard fans. That's what they do; it's who they are. I don't want nor expect that from a coach. I prefer the calm approach, as if he knew it would be tough and he's working through it. I have to assume, I just have to, that he's way more aware of the problems than we are--in his mind, it's probably way worse than we can possibly imagine. I have to believe that.

Finally, the sad truth is, many of the players and coaches simply can't be as honest as we feel they should be. Because the truth is when an offense only puts up 10 points, like they did last week, you aren't going to win many games. Not many at all. People act like we played the game of the year last week, when the truth is the Vikings are still a bad team, and we could only produce 10 damn points of offense. 10!! That won't win anything. That may not even win if you double it up. So they're reduced, in many situations, to offering up platitudes instead of the truth--because the truth would mean pointing fingers at your teammates on offense, or a single player, or frankly even the coaches. Do we really want that? Because I don't. I'd rather they take care of it and discuss it internally and work it out.

And people act like taking all the blame on themselves, as an individual, is the way to go. But that's disingenuous also. What's LRod supposed to say? I need to play better? That isn't honesty, it's nice to hear, but it's not necessarily the truth. Is he supposed to say, "I kicked ass, no clue why we lost, someone other than me sucks." Won't happen, shouldn't happen. Whiz could say, "I coached like a dog," or something to that effect, and that would make everyone feel much better so they could say I-told-you-so, but it doesn't make it true, not when Fitz is running wide open all day and not when everything I've read has suggested that Whiz out-coached Chilly in every phase of the game. These may be things we want to hear, for whatever reason, but it doesn't make them true, and saying them doesn't make him more honest than saying, "We'll get mad and move on." You have to stick together as a team, and to be perfectly honest and sappy I love the way this team sticks together. They honestly do support each other. I remember Whiz saying he loves Flag and one of the main reasons is because he can sit and watch who sits with who during dinner and who's close and tight knit so he can see what kind of family he's got. We have a slim chance of doing anything significant this year, but without sticking together as a team we have no chance.

(Edit: And as far as effort, the team is obviously giving everything they have. What you call lack of effort is akin to your saying ADub sucks and has nothing left. It's not Adub's fault he's put in a position against a slot receiver and told to cover one on one, and quite honestly, expecting him to cover Shiancoe 1on1 is insane also and everyone knows it. He's never been a cover guy, but I've seen him covering more receivers and TE's this year than any other. It's ridiculous, and quite frankly insulting. Ronnie Lott couldn't cover some of these receivers 1on1 at the line of scrimmage, and forget about Shiancoe. That's what he means about being on the same page: either they got confused on defense and he was covering dudes he wasn't supposed to, or he thought the scheme didn't suit their talents.)

Excellent post, I agree with nearly all of it. The constant bitching and moaning about Whis throughout this board is getting quite tiresome. Considering he's been the best coach in the history of the team, you'd think that people would give him a year of transition after losing a hall of fame qb, who the entire offense was built around.

Like it or not, this is a team in transition and a team that just isn't very good. It was a minor miracle that this team was 3-2, and with any luck we'd be 4-4. Considering that we have one of the worst offenses in the NFL, supplemented by a bad defense prone to fall apart at the worst times, I'm satisfied where we're at. While there is much work to do, and many opportunities to improve, the NFC west is a joke and we're in a better position than any other team to steal it.

 

[PJ1]

Just one thing to say: When people tell me "just forget this game", you know how many games I have to forget. I've been a rabid fan since 1960. I'm now 67 and either travel to games as I did this week to MN and watch all the other games on DirectTV.

Mitch, I enjoy your rants, because your right on top of this one! Wilson should never be covering anyone in sure passing situations, he shoul be rushing the QB from the best point of attack. B. Robinson should not be on this team, he gets pushed down field and is never double teamed, doesn't have to be.

I also agree that this is an inferior coaching staff, when Davis cannot adjust to the slants from the right side, it was open all day. D. Washington should have been not Wil Davis, he's too slow.

I do not like the casual approach taken by our head coach, no discipilne on this team. Every talks about the great shape that the team is in, but week after week they beat up in the 4th quarter; and Rhodes was completely exhausted after running 64 yards and stumbles and fumbles.

This is not what I want in the team that I spend alot of time rooting for and as Mitch put it spends alot of money on, especially going to games like this week. It's along weekend when you live in NJ.

Good post and you have every right to express your frustration. Amazing somebody tells someone rooting for this team since 1960 and travels to road games to go find another team.

 

[schutd]

Id like a stretch with a side of hyperbole... TO GO!

 

[Zeno]

Then go find another team.

Some of the Cardinals fans in NJ. Spend the money, and don't cry about it every single week when everything isn't perfect 100% of the time. Nobody put a gun to my head to pay. I am not so blind that I don't remember this is the Cardinals, they have not been a successful organization. Recently sure, but come on, that is 2 years out of 60. If fans are so "rabid" how can they not know what they are getting into.

Sorry to be rude but you specifically state this is not what you want. Root for the Giants they win a lot.


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A thread expecting perfection from a team at each and every level.

Isn't the "perfect fan" supposed to support its team through thick and thin ?

After reading this thread, I don't think I want to be a "rabid fan". Doesn't sound like I am arrogant, illogical, or over-emotional enough. (I think some will differ with that opinion LOL)

Yet another week of you telling what is acceptable to be a fan.

A fan has every right not to be happy with the product being put out on the field. Just because he doesn't see things your way does not justify you saying "find another team"...what an absolute shallow view.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Then go find another team.

Some of the Cardinals fans in NJ. Spend the money, and don't cry about it every single week when everything isn't perfect 100% of the time. Nobody put a gun to my head to pay. I am not so blind that I don't remember this is the Cardinals, they have not been a successful organization. Recently sure, but come on, that is 2 years out of 60. If fans are so "rabid" how can they not know what they are getting into.

Sorry to be rude but you specifically state this is not what you want. Root for the Giants they win a lot.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A thread expecting perfection from a team at each and every level.

Isn't the "perfect fan" supposed to support its team through thick and thin ?

After reading this thread, I don't think I want to be a "rabid fan". Doesn't sound like I am arrogant, illogical, or over-emotional enough. (I think some will differ with that opinion LOL)

I dont get it. The poster is 100% right. He didnt say he wanted to root for another team. He states that he puts alot of effort and money to watch this team. An the Coach and players GIVE HALF ASS EFFORTS. Why do you always berate people who Criticize the team???

That is our GOD given right. Especially if the team seems BY many to do it the wrong way. MITCH has CLEARLY stated 100 times WHERE the flaws are in our team and yetOUR coach who gets paid MILLIONS of dollars treats our team like he is coaching the Piggly Wiggly's Softball team.

I mean once bitten twice shy.....What about 100 times??

The presser is suppose to let the coach explian what he thinks is going right or wrong. Have you guys listened to The STeelers coach, belicheck, Rex Ryan???? I mean Whiz's answer is always gosh darn instead of....I WILL MAKE it right....He thinks his scheme is 100% perfect and the players just bungle it up at times.

Why are we the only team in the NFL that always repeats our mistakes. You look at any team in the NFL...and most teams losses except for a small few have been multiple things that may happen. We CONSTANTLY let QB's
march down the field when the game matters most. Why are we always as FANS scratching our heads on the play calls. Why is the obvious to us seem like the Holy Grail or Noah's Ark to the coaches.

Obviously by him being a fan for 30 years and he is 67...He is going to stick with the Cards....But He damn sure deserves to speak his mind!

 

[WildBB]

Yet another week of you telling what is acceptable to be a fan.

A fan has every right not to be happy with the product being put out on the field. Just because he doesn't see things your way does not justify you saying "find another team"...what an absolute shallow view.

This team needs it's critics. Too many bang on the messengers and not the problems. Coaching and Sloppy (unsound) AND inconsistent Play all around.
Gving up way too many big plays at the worst times.

And again the QB situation. First the lame brained pick against TB in the closing minutes and then totally inept ability to move the team for even a single first down in the last two critical possessions then into OT.

You knew Favre would do something at the end. NOT our guy!

 

[Cards_Campos]

Despite what anyone says this is OUR team, and we have every right to enjoy the team, and defend them when they are unjustly accused by over dramatic fans.

I have every right to call out something they find to be untrue, and over dramatized.

I am done dealing with this "Plight of the Pissed Off" Who in the heck is preventing the pages, upon pages of whining, moaning, bitching, and inane misery filled B.S. that is spread all over this board, that board, everywhere.

To say that you are speaking "despite" other people is further ridiculousness, there hasn't been a rant, complaint, or howl to the sky that has been censored or erased. It has all been able to be posted, talked about, and discussed to death and back. Despite ? That is ridiculous to say.

You got what ? One or two posters like myself that have had enough and say "This is just madness." Or call out the posters who EVERY SINGLE FLIPPIN' WEEK say "I am leaving this team, I deserve better, etc., etc." IF there is any despite. It is I enjoy this team, and try to defend it DESPITE being ganged up on, DESPITE being ridiculed for doing so from OTHER CARDINALS FANS NO LESS, DESPITE having to hear the standard "they are fans and can complain if they want" post EVERY time.

Yet, I ask for freedom to enjoy and it is lunacy ?

Despite my fanny, more like it.

The I am going to leave this team is people being mad....Again people who have been fans for 30+ years...Like myself and even though people here think I am 12....No it is called typing what you feel at the moment and being pissed off.

I guess I am at a loss for words....When 10 people are sitting in the room...and a play is called...and all 10 people say what the heck was that? The odds are the play was not a good one. Do you really watch the Cards this year and say what a fantastic team..what an effort. What a play call!

We call 15 yard passes in the middle of the field in FG range with 2 min to go....Yet we throw a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line?!?!? We start a QB that has a cannon and we throw 8 yard swing passes and 5 yard hook passes....and with Max Hall who could barely grip an orange..we have him throwing 30 yard out passes and 40 yard seem passes?!?!?! Teams constantly rush the edges and yet we never use 2! 2! 2! RB's to help with the rush..to let 2 of the BEST receivers to get open. Our defense stands 15 yards off the receivers even though we have the 2nd fastest player in the game at CB.....and now 5 times in 2 years and the Super Bowl...we have let teams with MOUNTAINS of pressure routinely march down the field.

And yet you get mad at fans for scratching their head and getting mad?? Go figure.

 

[desertdawg]

Damn I'm young.

 

[Catfish]

Mitch Ol Buddy-----your title for this thread says it all-----they just don't get it. We both know that you can't fix what you won't, (or can't), acknowlege is wrong with the big picture.

For instance-----take Adrian Wilson's poor pass coverage. I'll bet you that Whiz is really confused that in several games now, he has seen tha the strong safety has given up large chunks of yardage and even scores due to poor pass coverage. After all, he has assigned a multiple time pro-bowl safety to that position, and there should be no such problem like that. He has probably even concluded after watching film, that this must have just been an anomoly. It won't happen again.

My guess though-----is that Adrian Wilson postiively hates to be wasted in pass coverage. He just wants to hit someone. If Whiz really wants to put him in a position to make plays, then he should ensure that Wilson is played up in the box, and is used to blitz as often as is reasonably possible. Actually the worst thing that we can do to Wilson is to play him in coverage, because eventually he will become so sick of getting called out for the way he is covering, that he will lay off and time his hit to coincide with the arrival of the ball to the receiver, and deliver a hit that will get him suspended for hitting an exposed player under the new guidelines for hitting.

I'll bet Whiz is also happy to have Hayes back, so he can keep the rookie on the bench in favor of one of his trusted veterans, (just like he keeps Watson inactive so that Robinson can start). To an analytical type like Whiz, knowlege should trump athleticism. It doesn't matter that the rookie had 10 tackles in the previous game along with a sack. It only matters that on one play he didn't line up in the right place. Whiz even complained about it in his post game presser.

I don't even think that Whiz does this because he likes one player more than the other. I think he probably does not even consider things like liking someone or of thinking about someone's athleticism might just let them overcome an allignment mistake. He looks to fix mistakes, and lining up wrong was a mistake. To him, Robinson is always in the right place at the right time. He just didn't make a play. It would probably never occur to Whiz that Robinson may not be athletic enough to make plays anymore, (or that Wilson hates to cover pass routes). He is not a feelings type of guy, and would probably never even consider that Wilson only wants to hit. He can't understand that Wilson was a pro-bowler when the fans voted him in, BECAUSE he was a big hitter. To Whiz, he is just another pro-bowler who is not making play, yet every time Whiz watches film, he sees that Wilson is lined up in the right place at the right time. It must really be perplexing to Whiz that we are not making all those plays. Meanwhile, you will not see any fire from his belly, because he is busy looking for the next problem to fix. Who else wasn't lined up in position to make a play like he wanted them to?

 

[jefftheshark]

The I am going to leave this team is people being mad....Again people who have been fans for 30+ years...Like myself and even though people here think I am 12....No it is called typing what you feel at the moment and being pissed off.

I guess I am at a loss for words....When 10 people are sitting in the room...and a play is called...and all 10 people say what the heck was that? The odds are the play was not a good one. Do you really watch the Cards this year and say what a fantastic team..what an effort. What a play call!

We call 15 yard passes in the middle of the field in FG range with 2 min to go....Yet we throw a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line?!?!? We start a QB that has a cannon and we throw 8 yard swing passes and 5 yard hook passes....and with Max Hall who could barely grip an orange..we have him throwing 30 yard out passes and 40 yard seem passes?!?!?! Teams constantly rush the edges and yet we never use 2! 2! 2! RB's to help with the rush..to let 2 of the BEST receivers to get open. Our defense stands 15 yards off the receivers even though we have the 2nd fastest player in the game at CB.....and now 5 times in 2 years and the Super Bowl...we have let teams with MOUNTAINS of pressure routinely march down the field.

And yet you get mad at fans for scratching their head and getting mad?? Go figure.

I can see you are at a loss for words, so if you don't mind, I'm going to offer a few of my own:

As a long time Cardinal fan, I have to admit it was a lot easier being a follower of this team prior to 2004 or so. Years and years of watching horrible drafts of mediocre players, lackluster talents who were led by incompetent coaches while playing in a stadium that baked the brains out anyone unfortunate enough to love this crazy franchise, it was easy to become numb from the constant drumbeat of futility and disappointment. Losses, whether they were of the 40 point plus variety or by only a missed field goal were like water off of this duck's back. We lost a game? BFD, we do double digit losses standing on our heads.

But somewhere along the line things began to change. We began to draft better. I remember seeing Fitz, then Dansby, then Dockett - players who I had actually heard of before, coming off the board the first day of the draft in 2004 and it was like a re-birth. My eyes began to open to new possibilities, hoping against hope that we might finally turn that proverbial corner, that corner which like tomorrow, was always a day away.

As we moved into the new stadium, that very first day I stood there transfixed, surrounded by over 65,000 members of my extended family and I felt my throat clench at the thought of how far we had come, together.

I was sure I was going to pass out.

But this time it wasn't because I was sitting in a 130 degree oven, it was because for the first time I knew we were going to see true professional football played by real men, for real stakes, in front of true fans.

It was a life altering experience for me. And for many, if not most of you who are reading this as well.

It has been said that when you see something revealed that has been in front of you forever but you just didn't see it, that the "scales have fallen from your eyes" and that was the case that day. Because on that day I started to put away the childish things of my youth and began to expect more from this team, this staff, this management, these owners. And you know what, these expectations were met and ultimately exceeded, our patience rewarded by a trip that went far past respectability and then beyond, a journey which took us only a minute or so away from the uncharted waters of championship.

And you know what? It felt pretty damn f'ing good, too.

So here it is at least for me, in all of its six word glory, completely and totally tied up in a nice, tidy nutshell:

I. Do. Not. Want. To. Go. Back.

I don't want to do it. You don't want to do it either. We have come to frickin far to just slide back into the swamp of mediocrity or worse without a comment. Without a word. Without a railing against that damn good-night where dreams die and then move on unmourned.

So when a fan of 5, or 10, or 30 years or whatever says, "I'm mad as hell and I don't want to take it anymore!" Well, I for one completely and undeniably feel his frickin pain. For this truly hurts, it hurts because the novocaine blinders of the past have finally worn off and I now know what good football is, and Brother, what we've seen this year ain't it.

So find a new team because I'm mad as hell at the one I love? Well let me kindly request you go have passionate sex with yourself.

And you don't like to hear people get angry because of the crap they have seen flowing from the Cardinal organization as a whole for the past seven months or so? As far as I am concerned, the only reasonable response is the same one which was once uttered by the immortal Steve Martin under similar trying circumstances:

"Well excuuuuussse, me!"

JTS

 

[Cards_Campos]

I can see you are at a loss for words, so if you don't mind, I'm going to offer a few of my own:

As a long time Cardinal fan, I have to admit it was a lot easier being a follower of this team prior to 2004 or so. Years and years of watching horrible drafts of mediocre players, lackluster talents who were led by incompetent coaches while playing in a stadium that baked the brains out anyone unfortunate enough to love this crazy franchise, it was easy to become numb from the constant drumbeat of futility and disappointment. Losses, whether they were of the 40 point plus variety or by only a missed field goal were like water off of this duck's back. We lost a game? BFD, we do double digit losses standing on our heads.

But somewhere along the line things began to change. We began to draft better. I remember seeing Fitz, then Dansby, then Dockett - players who I had actually heard of before, coming off the board the first day of the draft in 2004 and it was like a re-birth. My eyes began to open to new possibilities, hoping against hope that we might finally turn that proverbial corner, that corner which like tomorrow, was always a day away.

As we moved into the new stadium, that very first day I stood there transfixed, surrounded by over 65,000 members of my extended family and I felt my throat clench at the thought of how far we had come, together.

I was sure I was going to pass out.

But this time it wasn't because I was sitting in a 130 degree oven, it was because for the first time I knew we were going to see true professional football played by real men, for real stakes, in front of true fans.

It was a life altering experience for me. And for many, if not most of you who are reading this as well.

It has been said that when you see something revealed that has been in front of you forever but you just didn't see it, that the "scales have fallen from your eyes" and that was the case that day. Because on that day I started to put away the childish things of my youth and began to expect more from this team, this staff, this management, these owners. And you know what, these expectations were met and ultimately exceeded, our patience rewarded by a trip that went far past respectability and then beyond, a journey which took us only a minute or so away from the uncharted waters of championship.

And you know what? It felt pretty damn f'ing good, too.

So here it is at least for me, in all of its six word glory, completely and totally tied up in a nice, tidy nutshell:

I. Do. Not. Want. To. Go. Back.

I don't want to do it. You don't want to do it either. We have come to frickin far to just slide back into the swamp of mediocrity or worse without a comment. Without a word. Without a railing against that damn good-night where dreams die and then move on unmourned.

So when a fan of 5, or 10, or 30 years or whatever says, "I'm mad as hell and I don't want to take it anymore!" Well, I for one completely and undeniably feel his frickin pain. For this truly hurts, it hurts because the novocaine blinders of the past have finally worn off and I now know what good football is, and Brother, what we've seen this year ain't it.

So find a new team because I'm mad as hell at the one I love? Well let me kindly request you go have passionate sex with yourself.

And you don't like to hear people get angry because of the crap they have seen flowing from the Cardinal organization as a whole for the past seven months or so? As far as I am concerned, the only reasonable response is the same one which was once uttered by the immortal Steve Martin under similar trying circumstances:

"Well excuuuuussse, me!"

JTS

You my fine sir I give you a smile, a handshake and one hell of HELL YA. Your post...simply Brilliant. You cant say it better than that.

 

[Cards_Campos]

The reason why Whiz will never change...Is because he doesnt have too. He has won doing it the wrong way from the start in all honesty. We were a flawed 9-7 team that made a run to the SuperBowl...and because us fans were so dying for a winner we jumped on board for the ride. I mean he flip flopped on QB's for 6 months....And I think Warner just wore him out by begging and pleading saying I can lead this team. His handling of the QB's has been atrocious. Warner led the league in 2007 the last half of the season and he names Leinart the starter. Warner finally started..but what would have happened if Leinart doesnt throw 3 INTs against Oakland late in preseason? He names Leinart the starter this year and finally the fans are ready for him..and he is cut on a whim for a guy who lost his job to another guy who is almost out of football!!! Our SuperBowl run was great but we never really thought how we did it or why. We just said...screw it and strap me in. The problem is....we were a decent but very flawed team....We were blown out in many games that year. We were called the worst playoff team in history. And at times ...honestly we might have been the worst team in the NFL (NE in the snow)

WHiz rode the hot hand of Warner and Fitz...and the great play calls of Haley during our playoff run.

I mean we almost win a SuperBowl...and yet we are throwing passes in the endzone from the 1 yard line....and they get ran back....our defense held the Steelers to a fg from the 12 yard line and the Steelers had 11 plays!!!!! (That got lost in the shuffle...But the defense did play unbelievable at times in that game...remember Wilson running over the holder and giving them the ball at the 4..we held them) But the unsportsmanlike penalties and the turnovers....were all overshadowed by how Warner lit up the last 8 minutes of the game. (kinda like Favre did)

But since we play in the worst division in sports really.....where we can look horrific, rank in the bottom in every major category...and yet we are playing for first place next Sunday...shows that Whiz doesnt need to change. If he wins....his goals are on pace to be met. Even though we as fans are dying because .....once the other 3 teams improve the right way...we will be back in the cellar...asking how we got here.

 

[Second Deck]

Agreed.

I need to see an example of the head coach that accepts responsibility.

Actually, I want to know what counts as accepting responsibilty, cause I see Whiz accepting a lot of it.

Also, I would like to know what makes Whiz so arrogant. He is arrogant when he does what is best for the team, but only when it goes bad.

When he does accept responsibilty, it is not good enough. I guess until he spills blood for his sins against such supportive, and "rabid fans as these" it won't be good enough.

Whiz has a lot of fault this year, no doubt. But it has gone past logical with a lot of the complaints lately.

Some of us have to get back to reality and then make the complaints.



Agreed.

Again, this is just ridiculous, and yes at risk of being dissrespectful, I fully 100% think this whole thread is RIDICULOUS.

Get angry because you don't feel players care, or try, then get angry again when the player is angry about losing. LOL. How illogical is that ?

Back to pushing them in the pool, and yelling at them for being wet.




I love all the talk about how people think they deserve better.

"Deserves, got nothing to do with it"

First, off there are some fans on this board that don't deserve a 3 & 5 team. This is support for you team ? Jeez. Uh, way to have patience for about 2 weeks LOL.

Second, if it is so bad, and you all deserve better then go root for another team. Go to one of those "great organizations" that "win all the time" and NEVER EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG.

Don't mean to rant, but if we are just going to be ridiculous, then so be it.

To me what is arrogant about Whiz is when he ran Boldin off then does not sujpport Leinert at all even though when was asked to perform he actually did and much better than any QB on the roster now. I don't like the way he has used Beanie or Williams this year. He also needs to have a offensive Coordinator to concentrate on that side of the ball.

All of this said he is the coach of the Cards but think he needs to check his arrogance. I also still think we win the division this year but most likely one and done unless QB play improves as well as Oline.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The I am going to leave this team is people being mad....Again people who have been fans for 30+ years...Like myself and even though people here think I am 12....No it is called typing what you feel at the moment and being pissed off.

"At the moment" is different then every week. Leave or don't. When it is done every week/day it is stupid, in my worthless opinion. Heck, I don't even care if they are mad every week.

But if it is painfull, awfull every week, and every week the same people talk about leaving the team. Then seriously, without any spite, I say leave. Find something you enjoy. With all sincerity.

Just like anyone. I work hard all week, and Sunday is a special day for football.

When we lose it sucks, when we win it is awesome (at least for me it is). But, it is what it is. The team is not going to win every game, and when 8 weeks into a season like this, it is more than likely in same cases.

The expectations of 60-0 and 19-0 is going to create a lot of un-needed pain because of unrealistic expectations. I don't want people to be in a foul mood all the time because of a football team. Again, just my worthless opinion (JMWO, LOL that is a good one).

But, again, you all are right. It is not my place to say "this is how it should be". If misery is your happiness. then do it, to it. Far be it from me to get in the way. Again with all sincerity.

I guess I am at a loss for words....When 10 people are sitting in the room...and a play is called...and all 10 people say what the heck was that? The odds are the play was not a good one. Do you really watch the Cards this year and say what a fantastic team..what an effort. What a play call!

Nope, our team is pretty bad this year. The funny thing is that, and please excuse me for singling you out, is people like you don't even realize that many of us feel that way. The slightest dissagreement, and the next thing you know I am a pro-cardinals, thinking everything is OK, idiot with blinders on.

Not the case. I see where the team is bad. I discuss it. I am all for throwing my opinion out there and letting it get trampled.

No problem discussing the play call, what we could have done, what could have been the reasoning, etc., etc.

Not just spew whining and moaning. About how everything sucks, and everything is horrible.

It is one play. It is one game. It is one season.

To lament the entire situation for every bump in the road is the definition of over dramatic.

You are right people are pissed and over emotional. Grief ? You want grief. How about the grief some are getting for calling out the falsehoods and overdramatizations on this board ?

You wanna come on the board and vent, and get pissed, sure. But, if you are out of line with your thinking to some, and state false statements, then you will be called out on it. Sorry, you are feeling badly, but it is what it is.

The board is just not a place to vent. Some people like to talk about the Cardinals. Especially ones who don't have a lot of fans around.

And yet you get mad at fans for scratching their head and getting mad?? Go figure.

First off, you get mad at fans for enjoying and supporting there team through thick and thin. Calling them blind, idiot, laughing at them, and talking like they uneducated because they don't agree with a singular opinion.

Fans getting mad at fans for supporting the team we are all rooting for, I am with you. Go figure.

For the billionth time no, I do not get mad at " fans for scratching their head and getting mad". I get mad at fans who do so, don't let it go, and don't let anyone else let it go and move forward. I get mad at fans who feel the need to be so arrogant that their emotional negative opinions HAVE to be looked upon as fact. I get mad at fans who state highly controversial things, don't defend it, and then rip on anyone who dare challenges them.

The proof is on this board. Read it. There are still some great posts and threads. Heck, Mitch's first post after the Viking game was very good. I didn't agree but he was angry with the team, stated what he didn't like, and stated what he would change.

This ? This is ridiculous, and I will call him out for it. I have every right.

But, then to go on and say things like Mitch and yourself do all this DESPITE other, and talk about the GRIEF you get is just piss poor, IMO.

No one prevents posters from posting these complaints week after week, day after day.

No one give you grief. You are highly contreversial, and people are going to react to that that. You ask for more acceptance from me to these numerous and ongoing rants, yet afford no acceptance to the people who reply to your very contreversial posts. And you instigate a lot of spite. Coming back and saying I told you so is without a doubt your right, but again as you say people are going to get emotional about it.

That is really all I have to say about it. Cause to be honest, I like reading your posts. But it is for your substance, not for how good of a fan you are.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

To me what is arrogant about Whiz is when he ran Boldin off then does not sujpport Leinert at all even though when was asked to perform he actually did and much better than any QB on the roster now. I don't like the way he has used Beanie or Williams this year. He also needs to have a offensive Coordinator to concentrate on that side of the ball.

All of this said he is the coach of the Cards but think he needs to check his arrogance. I also still think we win the division this year but most likely one and done unless QB play improves as well as Oline.

Fair enough.

What NFL head coach doesn't do these things ?

Bill Belichek ran Moss out of town. Tony Dungy and the colts let Harrison go like a rock into water. This stuff happens, and it would be hard pressed to find an NFL coach that won't do those types of things.

Bad decisions ? Sure. Any more "arrogant" than any other NFL coach ? Maybe, but not by much, IMO.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yet another week of you telling what is acceptable to be a fan..

Where do I say it, Zeno ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Obviously by him being a fan for 30 years and he is 67...He is going to stick with the Cards....But He damn sure deserves to speak his mind!

But I don't ?

That is the way I see but I guess when I state what I think it is wrong.

I wish I had a little posse' of people to rally around me everytime I say something. ......actually I don't, but whatever.

What is so special about one person. Everyone pays into the system. Sorry, to hear he is unhappy. Maybe that is what I should say. Instead. I dunno anymore.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Screw it.

Sorry everyone. I will be good you will not hear a complaint or opposing opinion from me for situation like this.

You are all right in the sense that you should all be able to vent, and speak as you please. I thought I was clear that I accepted, and supported this, but I guess I wasn't

I thought I was just allowed to discuss what I disagree on, but it is obvious I do not know how to do so without it being looked at as me judging the person in question.

Though realize when you allude to wanting to leave the team, you are putting on the table the questioning of your loyalty. It can be seen as confusing, especially if it is done on a weekly/daily basis.

Seriously I didn't mean offense, even if I was offended at a lot what I read.

The shallowness that, Zeno, has felt the need to label me (I say unfairly but whatever) as is not at all my intentions. I understand the need for a place to discuss things, especially when you live where there is a lack of Cardinals fans.

It gets just as frustrating for fans that do not want to vent, and cannot have a discussion without it being "everythings sucks, so why bother."


The point is,

I 100% accept any Cardinals fans.

Regardless, of how a bunch of people I have never met who I talk to on a computer take that, it is the truth.

Have fun, try to enjoy what you can, and realize that the games are important and what give us our passion. But the enjoyment comes from talking and conversing with your fellow fans.

*(Disclaimer: And I am not saying that that is what you HAVE to do to be a fan, or to be a good fan, or whatever. JMHO.)

Thanks for your patience in reading this post. I know a post like this brings nothing to the table, so again it is a waste. But, as many of you ask of me, I just wanted to throw it out there.

My apologies for those I have offended, that is by far and away what I do not want to do. A disagreement, or debate is one thing. Slander and hate is another, and I do not have any want for the latter, towards anyone.

 

[sw3j]

Sorry everyone. I will be good you will not hear a complaint or opposing opinion from me for situation like this.

Rugby, please don't apologize. The debate is what keeps the forum going. I would a board where everyone agreed.

That being said, threads like this are exactly why I'm grateful fans don't run teams.

Is Whisenhunt infallible? Absolutely not.

I will say he's easily the best coach we've had in AZ since the team arrived.

This is a transition year. Like it or not - that's the fact.

Are there going to be struggles? Absolutely.
Will it be agonizing? No question.

The mere fact he's come into this organization and created the extremely high expectations shows what a coach he is.

"But it was Denny's team - It was Kurt - etc." are common excuses used.

The thing is, Whisenhunt was the coach that led us to the Super Bowl and had us within two minutes of winning the game.

Whisenhunt is the coach that gave us back to back division titles and is going for three in a row.

Whisenhunt is the coach that brought us to relevance in the NFL - no longer the leagues doormat.

Whisenhunt is the coach when of this team that 'doesn't get it,' yet some experts are still predicting the NFC West again.

Question him all you want - that's what fans do. I have a bunch of questions myself.

Just keep in perspective what's happened under his watch.

 

[Cardiac]

Rugby, you carry the torch for at least myself, Thank You. It has gotten so bad this year that I have about 10 people on my ignore list because I don't have the ability to stay as calm and even handed as you do. I was a bit taken back by your response of then go find another team, not because I disagree but I know many find it as the biggest insult one can give. You have explained what you meant and that should be good enough for everyone. I mean if one can forgive Vick his trangressions then surely you should be pardoned as well.

Don't think you are alone in your frustration of some of the crazy hateful and conspiracy laden posts we have seen. Has anyone else noticed that Shane, joeshmo, Crazycanuk, Mdcardsfan and others have stopped posting for the most part. Maybe I'm wrong but I think it is due to the overall negativity and in what is MWO over emotional, uninformed, fictitious and ignorant thoughts and theories. I'm sure some, many, or all my posts could be viewed that way as well by some, many or all members of at this point and time dysfunctional family.

Jefftheshark, you may be the best writer on this board and that is saying a lot with the talents of Mitch (who I couldn't agree less with right now) and Brighteyes and etc.
I am at a different place then you in that I watched and rooted for the Cards when Coryell was the coach. I did have to experience the going back to a pitifully run team. I watched the owner fire a future HOF coach because.....well that is what he does.

The good news is that Michael B has caused a lot of change and this team will not become the SOC's because the only constant in that culture was Bill Sr. He hasn't completely faded out but his input has obviously lessened.

So I say to all, rant and rave all you want. Call Whiz an idiotic, worthless, lame brained, wussified coach because it appears to be the right of fans to do so. I at times will challenge you as that is my right. I will also ignore some posts because IMWO (I do like that Rugby) they have zero substance and it does become tedious.

Now time for a group hug and go Cards.

 

[Cardiac]

Rugby, please don't apologize. The debate is what keeps the forum going. I would a board where everyone agreed.

That being said, threads like this are exactly why I'm grateful fans don't run teams.

Is Whisenhunt infallible? Absolutely not.

I will say he's easily the best coach we've had in AZ since the team arrived.

This is a transition year. Like it or not - that's the fact.

Are there going to be struggles? Absolutely.
Will it be agonizing? No question.

The mere fact he's come into this organization and created the extremely high expectations shows what a coach he is.

"But it was Denny's team - It was Kurt - etc." are common excuses used.

The thing is, Whisenhunt was the coach that led us to the Super Bowl and had us within two minutes of winning the game.

Whisenhunt is the coach that gave us back to back division titles and is going for three in a row.

Whisenhunt is the coach that brought us to relevance in the NFL - no longer the leagues doormat.

Whisenhunt is the coach when of this team that 'doesn't get it,' yet some experts are still predicting the NFC West again.

Question him all you want - that's what fans do. I have a bunch of questions myself.

Just keep in perspective what's happened under his watch.

You should post more.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Look, the Cards are 3 & 5 and one game out of first place. Seriously, all kidding aside, do you really, REALLY expect them to have a better record at this stage of the season??

Personally, I thought, we could be as good as 5-3 or as bad as 2-6, so I guess I really shouldn't be as mad as I was on Sunday.

"At the moment" is different then every week. Leave or don't. When it is done every week/day it is stupid, in my worthless opinion. Heck, I don't even care if they are mad every week.

But if it is painfull, awfull every week, and every week the same people talk about leaving the team. Then seriously, without any spite, I say leave. Find something you enjoy. With all sincerity.

Just like anyone. I work hard all week, and Sunday is a special day for football.

When we lose it sucks, when we win it is awesome (at least for me it is). But, it is what it is. The team is not going to win every game, and when 8 weeks into a season like this, it is more than likely in same cases.

The board is just not a place to vent. Some people like to talk about the Cardinals. Especially ones who don't have a lot of fans around.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Rugby. If you're gonna talk about deserving better, wasting your Sunday afternoon or spending good money on this team whenever you are pissed about a loss, then maybe it's a good idea to take a break on Sunday and try something different, just for your own sanity.

 

[Catfish]

We are a bad team right now, but we were not that bad going into training camp. We are worse now, because of Whiz blowing up a lot of hard work to make us better. What hurts the most, is that it appears to have been done on a whim, and without careful consideration of the possible consequenses.

Am I angry-----Hell Yes !!!! Should I be angry-----Hell Yes again !!!! This franchise and these fans deserve better than that. The players certainly do !!!!

People are looking to Whiz to kick some but and get these guys motivated to play hard every week-----and all they are getting is an unemotional response that he needs to look at more film and see what needs to be fixed. I would almost bet that if he pulled his head out of the playbook during the game, he would see what needs to be fixed, but he is too busy scanning the playbook for the next logical play of the progression.

Whiz, the HC didn't look so shiny before Haley was calling the plays, and he certainly hasn't looked very shiny since Haley left. Haley provided the only fire that we have seen out of a coach since Whiz arrived. I am not saying that is good or bad, it just is. The sad thing is that I believe that the players are looking for that special something that creates the spark that ignites the team. That has been missing since Warner retired, and DD and A-Dub can't provide it for the offense. It is just not in Whiz to provide that apparently, but then he has other things to do.

 

[PJ1]

Personally, I thought, we could be as good as 5-3 or as bad as 2-6, so I guess I really shouldn't be as mad as I was on Sunday.



Couldn't have said it better myself, Rugby. If you're gonna talk about deserving better, wasting your Sunday afternoon or spending good money on this team whenever you are pissed about a loss, then maybe it's a good idea to take a break on Sunday and try something different, just for your own sanity.

So fans on a message board aren't going to be upset after losses like we had the last two weeks? This wasn't run of the mill stuff. Throwing picks at the end when you are well within FG range to tie a game. Losing a 14 point lead with 4 minutes left. Allowing an all time personal best to Favre after playing him well for 3 quarters. I expected nothing less the Monday and Tuesday after that meltdown. The if you don't like it get lost stuff is what I didn't expect to see. May be just me but I wasn't surprised at all by the reaction.

 

[cardpa]

I have been coaching high school soccer for over 17 years now. What anyone will find is I am the quietest person on the bench. I do not yell instructions for 80 minutes to players while the game is going on.

I am in full analyzing mode as the game is being played. I make certain substitutes based on how we are playing and how individual players are performing that day.

I have moved players from one position to another simply because I want to put them in a position to succeed.

I have experienced blowouts on both sides of the game and have won and loss extremely closely contested games. The most satisfying victories are the very close ones. The hardest losses are the very close ones. Blowout losses are quickly dismissed. I hate coaching blowout wins because no one ever gains from them.

I say all this because of what I am going to post next. Catfish had a very good post regarding Whiz and how he may be over analytical and would rather trust a player being in the correct place all the time versus a player who may not be there all the time and then can't understand why its not working.

I personally would rather have someone in the game who may make a positional error than someone who is always in position but cannot consistently make the play. Someone who is showing improvement and reducing their errors as they gain experience.

I work one on one with players all the time telling them this is where you need to improve and I will give you time to get there however I need to see the corrections take place or I will have no choice but to replace you.

This is where I see failure in Whiz. He seems to have the most difficult time recognizing that players are going to make mistakes however you need to give them a chance to make those mistakes and learn from them.

As long as you see reduction of those mistakes and they are making plays for you over the player who may be technically correct but can't deliver plays on a consistent basis the long term effect is more positive for the player and the team.

Whiz banishes players for mistakes and I don't think anyone here would disagree on that. THT fumbles and he might as well sit in the stands the rest of the game. Washington lines up incorrect and he is picking dingle berries out of his @ss the rest of the game.

Whiz recognizes the mistakes but these mistakes are never corrected. I can appreciate Wilson being in the right place but if he doesn't have the ability to execute then what good is it? Wilson is not put in a position to succeed.

To me that is the failure of Whiz and this coaching staff, they do not put players in a position to be successful and at least from my experience players are much more excited to play and work hard when they experience success.

Give them the opportunity to make plays by playing to their strengths and not ask them to do things they just are not capable of doing.