"The Four Horsemen" WR stats and projections

Krangthebrain

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Good to see that the regular whiners on this board (see page 1) are being proven wrong. Murray is exactly what some of us said from day 1. He’s a special talent, a difference maker, and a winner. Continue to give him weapons & get out of his way. No one is perfect in the NFL, and everyone must strive for improvement. That includes K1. So many criticized his ability or inability on intermediate throws. His success in the 10-20 range has been meteoric from year 1 to the current year. The old timers on this board like myself have NEVER seen anyone do this for the Cardinals, and the newbies may never see it again after Murray. Enjoy the moment.
I mean, I'm on team Murray and I criticized him a bunch this offseason. Why? Because I know the kid is the most talented Cardinals player I've ever seen. That means I expected more from him.

I think the people who were prognosticating a bad season didn't account for 1) Murray's growth 2) defensive improvement 3) all thr added weapons.

I'm not trying to rub anyone's nose in it, but some of us saw a path to this happening and there was clear indicators the team could do this.

All the rubbish calling AJ Green washed: i posted a YouTube video numerous times that showed every play directed at AJ Green. Any reasonable person could watch that video and come away seeing that QB play was AJs problem.

And Kirk to the slot was an under played storyline. Some of us pointed out how big it was going to be. And at times it has been. Now add in Rondale and the Cardinals perhaps have the most weapons outside of Tampa.

On the defensive side, too many weren't seeing how big of an impact Watt was going to have. Some posters were saying he was injury prone, even though he played 1000 snaps last year. Watt has been a force. He has been a huge leader.

Byron Murphy got better each year and there was no reason to assume he was going to get better. Last year he allowed a 90 QB Rating which is solid. I think its a solid assumption in most cases that players will improve from year two to year three. The cornerback room has been vastly better. Some of us called it! Those of us who thought it was going to be improved saw the better depth. No Kevin Peterson! The 4th best guy was better in years past! That's what makes a good defensive backfield, depth!
 

Crimson Warrior

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I mean, I'm on team Murray and I criticized him a bunch this offseason. Why? Because I know the kid is the most talented Cardinals player I've ever seen. That means I expected more from him.

I think the people who were prognosticating a bad season didn't account for 1) Murray's growth 2) defensive improvement 3) all thr added weapons.

I'm not trying to rub anyone's nose in it, but some of us saw a path to this happening and there was clear indicators the team could do this.

All the rubbish calling AJ Green washed: i posted a YouTube video numerous times that showed every play directed at AJ Green. Any reasonable person could watch that video and come away seeing that QB play was AJs problem.

And Kirk to the slot was an under played storyline. Some of us pointed out how big it was going to be. And at times it has been. Now add in Rondale and the Cardinals perhaps have the most weapons outside of Tampa.

On the defensive side, too many weren't seeing how big of an impact Watt was going to have. Some posters were saying he was injury prone, even though he played 1000 snaps last year. Watt has been a force. He has been a huge leader.

Byron Murphy got better each year and there was no reason to assume he was going to get better. Last year he allowed a 90 QB Rating which is solid. I think its a solid assumption in most cases that players will improve from year two to year three. The cornerback room has been vastly better. Some of us called it! Those of us who thought it was going to be improved saw the better depth. No Kevin Peterson! The 4th best guy was better in years past! That's what makes a good defensive backfield, depth!

That's pretty fair. But I think a lot of people, who, like you, were confident in our player talent, were not confident in our coaching. I was hopeful that K2 would get better, and hopeful that Vance would prove that 2020 was not an aberration, but far, far from confident. I honestly thought that if anything kept us from being successful this year, it would be K2, and to a lesser degree Joseph.

In fact, I'm still not confident that K2's game management won't cost us a game somewhere down the line this season.

But Joseph, given a wealth of play-makers, now appears more than capable of scheming successful plans. We've had good turnover luck, but our defensive success is not only the result of that, and, a lot of the turnover luck we've made for ourselves anyway.

And Krang, I'm not saying K2 sucks. I think he's a very good, maybe even great, offensive mind. His offensive schemes and game plans are working, and not just because of Murray. But I'll admit I was worried about his ability to be a CEO of the team. His responsibilities and accountability go far beyond his play-calling duties, and his first two years in the CEO role had left more questions than answers.

And yet, here we are. 6-0. And if Kliff Kingsbury deserves our criticism for the team limping across the finish line in 2020, then dammit, he deserves our praise for the Cardinals being the last undefeated team in 2021, for he is ultimately responsible for the performance of this team. Not Murray, or Hopkins, not Jones or Joseph or Watt. And not Keim.

So good call on the player talent.
 
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Krangthebrain

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That's pretty fair. But I think a lot of people, who, like you, were confident in our player talent, were not confident in our coaching. I was hopeful that K2 would get better, and hopeful that Vance would prove that 2020 was not an aberration, but far, far from confident. I honestly thought that if anything kept us from being successful this year, it would be K2, and to a lesser degree Joseph.

In fact, I'm still not confident that K2's game management won't cost us a game somewhere down the line this season.

But Joseph, however, given a wealth of play-makers, now appears more than capable of scheming successful plans. We've had good turnover luck, but our defensive success is not only the result of that, and, a lot of the turnover luck we've made for ourselves anyway.

And Krang, I'm not saying K2 sucks. I think he's a very good, maybe even great, offensive mind. His offensive schemes and game plans are working, and not just because of Murray. But I'll admit I was worried about his ability to be a CEO of the team. His responsibilities and accountability go far beyond his play-calling duties, and his first two years in the CEO role had left more questions than answers.

And yet, here we are. 6-0. And if Kliff Kingsbury deserves our criticism for the team limping across the finish line in 2020, then the dammit, he deserves our praise for the Cardinals being the last undefeated team in 2021, for he is ultimately responsible for the performance of this team. Not Murray, or Hopkins, not Jones or Joseph or Watt. And not Keim.

So good call on the player talent.
I'm a bigger fan than Kingsbury than most on here. Even when the offense was struggling, I still consistently saw open receivers. I think a lot of the struggles down the stretch were mostly on Murray. Its hard to game plan when your QB isn't getting it done and defenses can shut down your run game.

Kliff has been bad in close game situations and clock management, but he has been very good at offensive game planning and playcalling. How do you get around his weaknesses? Kick everyone's asses.
 

slanidrac16

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I’m not freaked out about the time outs. If we are in the red zone in the 1st quarter and things aren’t lined up perfectly id rather use a time out than waste a play or delay penalty.
You get no bonus points for unused time outs at half time.
 

Krangthebrain

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I’m not freaked out about the time outs. If we are in the red zone in the 1st quarter and things aren’t lined up perfectly id rather use a time out than waste a play or delay penalty.
You get no bonus points for unused time outs at half time.
I'm not too big a worrier over those timeouts either.

I've been more annoyed when Kliff goes conservative.
 

cheesebeef

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I'm not too big a worrier over those timeouts either.

I've been more annoyed when Kliff goes conservative.

I’ve gotten over the timeouts. But I’m still a little nervous to see how he coaches in a big close game. Haven’t seen how he handles that pressure yet this year and hoping your (and my) concern over his situational conservativeness doesn’t rear it’s head.
 

Krangthebrain

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I’ve gotten over the timeouts. But I’m still a little nervous to see how he coaches in a big close game. Haven’t seen how he handles that pressure yet this year and hoping your (and my) concern over his situational conservativeness doesn’t rear it’s head.
True. I mean, I was thinking of a counter to your post and there really isn't one. This season has been magical so far....which means we're due a huge nut punch soon.
 

ajcardfan

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True. I mean, I was thinking of a counter to your post and there really isn't one. This season has been magical so far....which means we're due a huge nut punch soon.
Magical seasons happen... why not us?

My best friend, who I split my tickets with for 20 years, died in February. For a lot of that time, I had this joke:

"I know exactly when the Cardinals will win the Super Bowl. It will be the year after I die."

Sometimes I think, "Could that really happen? Cardinals win the Super Bowl the year after Dennis dies? " and I think of how that FG in the Vikings game just missed to the right...
 
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cheesebeef

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True. I mean, I was thinking of a counter to your post and there really isn't one. This season has been magical so far....which means we're due a huge nut punch soon.

yeah and nervous isn’t even the right word that I used. More curious to see what happens, but kinda optimistic too. I think we’ve definitely seen growth in KK alongside his QB this season so far and just a little confidence can go a long way to shoring up those previous nut shriveling moments we saw previously.
 

Krangthebrain

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yeah and nervous isn’t even the right word that I used. More curious to see what happens, but kinda optimistic too. I think we’ve definitely seen growth in KK alongside his QB this season so far and just a little confidence can go a long way to shoring up those previous nut shriveling moments we saw previously.
I mentioned this after the Browns game, you could see how beat Kingsbury looked. He had obviously gone through a lot trying to win that game. He looked exhausted.

I think he really cares a lot and puts a ton into the team. If you listen to the players, they seem to really like him. I know people make a big deal about Murray not seeming to be crazy about Kliff, but does Murray ever seem to be over the top about anything or anyone?
 

wit3card

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I’ve gotten over the timeouts. But I’m still a little nervous to see how he coaches in a big close game. Haven’t seen how he handles that pressure yet this year and hoping your (and my) concern over his situational conservativeness doesn’t rear it’s head.
KK is still young for a HC in the NFL one of the youngest overall. So we will see probably some growing pains and head scratchers, but I saw improvement from his part.

When we are ahead he starts to call much more run plays that eat up the clock, in close games he learnd something that other youngsters don't have learned thanks to our division, you have to account for your opponent and take what you can (FG) even if sometimes you need to pay attention on the distance XD. But overall he is more about field position than most of the young HC and that is a sign of growth that others didn't show. Gosh Shanahan lost 2 SB because he didn't understand that he had just to run out the damn clock. (Falcons and 49er). From what we saw till now, we wouldn't lose like that, because KK understood that lesson.
 

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I mentioned this after the Browns game, you could see how beat Kingsbury looked. He had obviously gone through a lot trying to win that game. He looked exhausted.

I think he really cares a lot and puts a ton into the team. If you listen to the players, they seem to really like him. I know people make a big deal about Murray not seeming to be crazy about Kliff, but does Murray ever seem to be over the top about anything or anyone?

I think you're right that Murray is his own dude. He's his own hero I think, which is not necessarily a bad thing for a Franchise QB. But I'm sure everybody also heard M. Sanchez mention K1 buying some new Nikes for the janitor at the Cardinals building. Kid's head is on pretty straight.

You mentioned Kliff's work ethic. I've heard good things about it before too. Also, if he wanted to, Kliff could talk himself into some trouble if you know what I mean. The nightlife, women etc. But we haven't heard even a whisper about that kind of thing in the 2+ years he's been the coach. Much easier to assume he's focused on winning when he's keeping such a low profile.
 

SoonerLou

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But the biggest reason the Cardinals are unbeaten is because of Kyler Murray. As far as the MVP race goes, the gap between Murray and the field is as wide as that famous Arizona landmark, the neon hat outside that Arby’s in Phoenix. Murray has gone from one of the NFL’s least efficient intermediate-to-deep-intermediate passers to, this season, one of the most efficient. In completion percentage on throws of 10-to-20 yards through the air, he ranked last out of 34 qualifying quarterbacks in 2019 (47.2%) and 20th out of 35 qualifying quarterbacks in ’20 (55.4%). This season, he ranks third (71.9%). In all throws that travel 15-plus yards in the air, he ranked 22nd out of 44 qualifiers in ’19 (42.3%) and 28th out of 43 qualifiers in ’20 (38.7%). This season, he leads the NFL (66.7%)—no quarterback has ever completed 66.7% on such throws over the course of a season.


Some of that is Murray progressing as a passer. I have a feeling that some of it is also the arrival of Ronale Moore. Even if his usage hasn’t been overly creative, he has added another element to what was (and, in many ways, still is) a stale offensive scheme. Some of it is also the revival of A.J. Green. The vet has been a revelation, and perhaps it’s just a matter of having a quarterback who has a comfort level with contested-catch receivers. But one year ago, you could argue that Green was the least valuable starting receiver in football, with a stunningly low catch rate of 45.2% when targeted. So far this season, on slightly less volume (5.3 targets per game compared to 6.5 last year), his catch rate is 65.6%, including 7-for-8 on downfield targets. Green caught 6-of-37 (16.2%!) downfield targets last season, a number so stunningly bad that it should have triggered a point-shaving investigation. Throw in the continued dominance of DeAndre Hopkins, and you have an offense that might just have too much skill-position talent to fail.
 

Cardiac

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This years off season main objective was to improve the leadership on this team. I think maybe the biggest gain was with KM. In watching the flight plan series you can see him talking charge, being incredibly vocal and having a ton of fun. His personality jumps out and he looks to be completely comfortable with being our franchise QB.
 
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