The Cardinals "created a monster"

Jasper

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Signing Kyler to that huge contract was a huge mistake that will take years to rectify.

However every team needs a QB.
Kliff was screwed with or without anyways.

Do any of you think Kliff would be employed if we went with Bosa and rolled with Rosen?
 
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Signing Kyler to that huge contract was a huge mistake that will take years to rectify.

However every team needs a QB.
Kliff was screwed with or without anyways.

Do any of you think Kliff would be employed if we went with Bosa and rolled with Rosen?

Only if they drafted Herbert the following year.
 

Russ Smith

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Justin Pugh has been vocal about Kyler's contract the last few days on Twitter, so I'm sure it's him.

Saw that too it's a bit puzzling? He's saying if you have more than 12.6% of your cap tied up in your starting QB you can't win. First it's an odd number to pick so it's clearly reverse engineered. Second I could just as easily say if 40% of your starting OL has to be convinced NOT to retire, and then doesn't play well, and then gets hurt and misses most of the year, you were probably better off NOT convincing them to come back in the first place. Not that he faked his injury but his situation was so predictable he retired, lost weight, then decided to come back but as the C, then Hudson unretired so he had to bulk up to play guard again got hurt and missed most of the year.

We will probably never know but I do think if you're a Cardinal player right now, Murray is the easy guy to blame because of his contract.

I would assume if it was THAT obvious, he's a "monster", that the Cards wouldn't have fired the head coach and pushed out the GM to cover for Murray? I figure the truth is more in the middle, Kyler sucked this year, he needs to do things differently in the future, but in the end the Cards were convinced Kliff wasn't the right guy, and clearly keim has other issues and it contributed to him mismanaging the cap and guys like Justin Pugh were part of that because we probably should have let him retire.
 
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Saw that too it's a bit puzzling? He's saying if you have more than 12.6% of your cap tied up in your starting QB you can't win. First it's an odd number to pick so it's clearly reverse engineered. Second I could just as easily say if 40% of your starting OL has to be convinced NOT to retire, and then doesn't play well, and then gets hurt and misses most of the year, you were probably better off NOT convincing them to come back in the first place. Not that he faked his injury but his situation was so predictable he retired, lost weight, then decided to come back but as the C, then Hudson unretired so he had to bulk up to play guard again got hurt and missed most of the year.

We will probably never know but I do think if you're a Cardinal player right now, Murray is the easy guy to blame because of his contract.

I would assume if it was THAT obvious, he's a "monster", that the Cards wouldn't have fired the head coach and pushed out the GM to cover for Murray? I figure the truth is more in the middle, Kyler sucked this year, he needs to do things differently in the future, but in the end the Cards were convinced Kliff wasn't the right guy, and clearly keim has other issues and it contributed to him mismanaging the cap and guys like Justin Pugh were part of that because we probably should have let him retire.

For me any QB shirking on this stuff is a huge red flag and unlikely to ever be changed by coaching. This is something that has to come from within. If you haven't got it nobody can give it to you.

The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of talented guys who just didn't have the self motivation to do the grunt work. And those that are great like JJ Watt and Brady are the ones that embrace the grind.

If Kyler thinks he can just do the fun bits and shirk the boring stuff then he's going to have a short career.

It can be fixed, but he has to have that realisation and change himself.
 

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For me any QB shirking on this stuff is a huge red flag and unlikely to ever be changed by coaching. This is something that has to come from within. If you haven't got it nobody can give it to you.

The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of talented guys who just didn't have the self motivation to do the grunt work. And those that are great like JJ Watt and Brady are the ones that embrace the grind.

If Kyler thinks he can just do the fun bits and shirk the boring stuff then he's going to have a short career.

It can be fixed, but he has to have that realisation and change himself.
Well said. Wholly agree with your assessment. He doesnt embrace the grind and he needs to learn some humility. The organization didnt do him any favors hiring KK, but KM has a ton of growing up to do. I am hoping this knee injury brings him an opportunity to reflect on what an entitled Bish he is. Lots of money is tied up in this kid. He is lucky to have the weapons he has.

Tom Brady went to the playoffs in a season his entire receiving corps came in with a collective 40 catches for maybe 300 yards. KM needs to learn to stop pointing fingers and elevate his game.

The next Herbert, Allen, or Burrow that comes out in 24, 25, 26, or 27, and we are in a position to draft, we should do it without a 2nd thought. I can easily see KM off the team in 25/26 and out of the league by 2030 because his attitude sucks so bad.
 
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Russ Smith

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For me any QB shirking on this stuff is a huge red flag and unlikely to ever be changed by coaching. This is something that has to come from within. If you haven't got it nobody can give it to you.

The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of talented guys who just didn't have the self motivation to do the grunt work. And those that are great like JJ Watt and Brady are the ones that embrace the grind.

If Kyler thinks he can just do the fun bits and shirk the boring stuff then he's going to have a short career.

It can be fixed, but he has to have that realisation and change himself.


Agreed my point is, IF that's true, why did we fire Kliff? If Kyler became a "monster" that isn't putting in the effort why did we fire the coach? The obvious answer is the people in charge don't think Kliff did his job. We know he was in early everyday and all that stuff but part of his job is getting the team to buy in. And for me the real issue was when your QB isn't playing well and you have injuries up and down the roster, control the things you CAN control. We led the NFL in penalties, we led the NFL in offensive penalties, we led the NFL in pre snap penalties. All of that is directly on Kliff.
 

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Agreed my point is, IF that's true, why did we fire Kliff? If Kyler became a "monster" that isn't putting in the effort why did we fire the coach? The obvious answer is the people in charge don't think Kliff did his job. We know he was in early everyday and all that stuff but part of his job is getting the team to buy in. And for me the real issue was when your QB isn't playing well and you have injuries up and down the roster, control the things you CAN control. We led the NFL in penalties, we led the NFL in offensive penalties, we led the NFL in pre snap penalties. All of that is directly on Kliff.
KK was fired because everyone thought he would be the one to unlock KM potential. That didnt happen, they butted heads in public, so KK was shown the door. Reflecting back on the Saints game/the calm the F down stuff: the look on KK's face looked like a man who knew he was done in AZ. That was Kyler firing him.
 

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For me any QB shirking on this stuff is a huge red flag and unlikely to ever be changed by coaching.
Murray is still a damn kid. How do I think this is going to work out? The Cardinals are going to hire Vance Joseph and Vance will bring in a MEH O coordinator. Murray won't be held accountable still and he will continue his up and down play. The Cardinals will trade him for peanuts a few years from now and he will go to an A Class organization and he will become the player he is supposed to be under a HC who can actually get him to play and prepare the right way.
This is something that has to come from within. If you haven't got it nobody can give it to you.
This is absolutely not true. Sure you have to accept the criticism and try and develop the work ethic, but work ethic CAN be taught.
The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of talented guys who just didn't have the self motivation to do the grunt work. And those that are great like JJ Watt and Brady are the ones that embrace the grind.
True, I don't disagree with your point here, but Murray is still very young and he can turn it around. We have heard and seen reports that Murray DOES grind, but just not in the right way. He needs to be separated a bit from the YES men in his life and he needs to really hear the truth. From the reports we have heard so far, I don't think Kingsbury was really telling Murray the truth.
If Kyler thinks he can just do the fun bits and shirk the boring stuff then he's going to have a short career.

It can be fixed, but he has to have that realisation and change himself.
He does have to change, I agree with that, but he also needs to have the RIGHT PEOPLE around him. I honestly believe that Kingsbury could have worked with an older, veteran grinder type QB. Sure his game management would have been subpar, but I fully believe that Murray held back what Kingsbury wanted to do on offense.
 

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Second I could just as easily say if 40% of your starting OL has to be convinced NOT to retire, and then doesn't play well, and then gets hurt and misses most of the year, you were probably better off NOT convincing them to come back in the first place. Not that he faked his injury but his situation was so predictable he retired, lost weight, then decided to come back but as the C, then Hudson unretired so he had to bulk up to play guard again got hurt and missed most of the year.
It's crazy - many of us said that this was a troubling development and that our line was a huge concern, but we were told it wasn't a problem.
 

Russ Smith

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KK was fired because everyone thought he would be the one to unlock KM potential. That didnt happen, they butted heads in public, so KK was shown the door. Reflecting back on the Saints game/the calm the F down stuff: the look on KK's face looked like a man who knew he was done in AZ. That was Kyler firing him.

So Kyler Murray is a monster, the whole team knows this so clearly the ownership knows this and the acting GM's know this. ANd yet they fired the coach for not stopping the monster THEY created by giving Murray the contract?

That's my point, I wanted Kliff to be fired but if the contract created the Murray monster, that's not Kliff's fault. But they fired Kliff, which tells me the people still in charge do NOT think the contract was the issue.
 

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Pugh is talking about Allen and Mahomes.

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Agreed my point is, IF that's true, why did we fire Kliff? If Kyler became a "monster" that isn't putting in the effort why did we fire the coach? The obvious answer is the people in charge don't think Kliff did his job. We know he was in early everyday and all that stuff but part of his job is getting the team to buy in. And for me the real issue was when your QB isn't playing well and you have injuries up and down the roster, control the things you CAN control. We led the NFL in penalties, we led the NFL in offensive penalties, we led the NFL in pre snap penalties. All of that is directly on Kliff.

And also it's easy to fire the $6m a year guy with no cap hit whose money will be offset vs the $46m a year guy with massive dead cap.
 

Russ Smith

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Murray is still a damn kid. How do I think this is going to work out? The Cardinals are going to hire Vance Joseph and Vance will bring in a MEH O coordinator. Murray won't be held accountable still and he will continue his up and down play. The Cardinals will trade him for peanuts a few years from now and he will go to an A Class organization and he will become the player he is supposed to be under a HC who can actually get him to play and prepare the right way.

This is absolutely not true. Sure you have to accept the criticism and try and develop the work ethic, but work ethic CAN be taught.

True, I don't disagree with your point here, but Murray is still very young and he can turn it around. We have heard and seen reports that Murray DOES grind, but just not in the right way. He needs to be separated a bit from the YES men in his life and he needs to really hear the truth. From the reports we have heard so far, I don't think Kingsbury was really telling Murray the truth.

He does have to change, I agree with that, but he also needs to have the RIGHT PEOPLE around him. I honestly believe that Kingsbury could have worked with an older, veteran grinder type QB. Sure his game management would have been subpar, but I fully believe that Murray held back what Kingsbury wanted to do on offense.

Example of that is Geno Smith who got hurt(like Murray) and reportedly lost his job because he was such a hot head and not a hard worker. When he was on the verge of being unemployed he figured it out, changed and this year was PRAISED for his work ethic.
 

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And also it's easy to fire the $6m a year guy with no cap hit whose money will be offset vs the $46m a year guy with massive dead cap.

So the Cards do NOT think there's an issue with Kliff but they fired him a year after giving him an extension because it was easy?

I said all along they were NOT going to move Kyler because of his contract, I agree with that but my guess is they're firing Kliff because they think what happened this year was in part his fault. ANd they don't think he can fix it.
 

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Pugh is talking about Allen and Mahomes.

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Think in a vacuum the argument could work, but honestly Mahomes is just on another level and Allen is on a separate level than other QB's. Both teams are good enough to win, but the road is tough and obviously only one of these could win it all. Problem is there will be QB's that will get similar contracts because that's just what the market is and it's a QB league regardless and they will be overpaid.
 
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Murray is still a damn kid. How do I think this is going to work out? The Cardinals are going to hire Vance Joseph and Vance will bring in a MEH O coordinator. Murray won't be held accountable still and he will continue his up and down play. The Cardinals will trade him for peanuts a few years from now and he will go to an A Class organization and he will become the player he is supposed to be under a HC who can actually get him to play and prepare the right way.

This is absolutely not true. Sure you have to accept the criticism and try and develop the work ethic, but work ethic CAN be taught.

True, I don't disagree with your point here, but Murray is still very young and he can turn it around. We have heard and seen reports that Murray DOES grind, but just not in the right way. He needs to be separated a bit from the YES men in his life and he needs to really hear the truth. From the reports we have heard so far, I don't think Kingsbury was really telling Murray the truth.

He does have to change, I agree with that, but he also needs to have the RIGHT PEOPLE around him. I honestly believe that Kingsbury could have worked with an older, veteran grinder type QB. Sure his game management would have been subpar, but I fully believe that Murray held back what Kingsbury wanted to do on offense.

Herbert is a kid. Burrow is a kid. Tua, Purdy, Lawrence, Jones, Hurts etc are all kids.

They don't have these issues. We hear these stories about Kyler (which we have heard over and over now). It's not smoke, there's definately a fire.

Being a kid is no excuse. As a military man you know most of those guys are kids and they don't get paid $46m a year, but still have to do their jobs. Including all the crappy bits.

I cannot remember a #1 pick QB having these types of laziness issues since Jamarcus Russell. Every prospect knows the grind required to succeed in the NFL. It's inexcusable that Kyler thinks he's above it.
 

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