The Ayton Plan

cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
77,047
Reaction score
38,290
The #6? What a joke. No. The Suns are stupid if they would consider this.
What in the world are you guys expecting in a sign and trade? You never get even close to fair value for a sign and trade with a guy who could just sign with another team.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
What if it was Turner, Duarte, and the #6 for Ayton and Shamet?
The Suns have to get an equal Calibur player in return. People value draft picks too much. Anything past the top 2 maybe 3 is a pure crapshoot. Do you consider Turner or Duarte equal value? The Suns can't trade Ayton for the equivalent of a lottery ticket. If you can't get equal value then you better get some very very solid pieces back.
 

Folster

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
14,820
Reaction score
4,637
The Suns have to get an equal Calibur player in return. People value draft picks too much. Anything past the top 2 maybe 3 is a pure crapshoot. Do you consider Turner or Duarte equal value? The Suns can't trade Ayton for the equivalent of a lottery ticket. If you can't get equal value then you better get some very very solid pieces back.

I imagine in that scenario we'd package the #6 + expirings for an integral piece.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
What in the world are you guys expecting in a sign and trade? You never get even close to fair value for a sign and trade with a guy who could just sign with another team.
So you think it's s smart move to move Ayton for the equivalent of a lottery ticket? You have to get something close to equal value if you can't get equal value or it's just like giving him away for nothing anyway. Screw that. I will take my chances with resigning him.
 

cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
77,047
Reaction score
38,290
So you think it's s smart move to move Ayton for the equivalent of a lottery ticket? You have to get something close to equal value if you can't get equal value or it's just like giving him away for nothing anyway. Screw that. I will take my chances with resigning him.
I’m not saying anything like that but I am sick of people projected stupid arguments on to others so I’m done discussing this with you.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
Y
I’m not saying anything like that but I am sick of people projected stupid arguments on to others so I’m done discussing this with you.
You mean like projecting that "you guys" think we should expect the world for Ayton when that's not what I said? Pot meet kettle.

I think it's not a far fetched or unreasonable expectation to get a starter caliber player in return for the former top pick in the draft and statistically one of the best big men in the game. If that is unreasonable then yes....it's a stupid conversation.

My original comment was simply around the idea that the Suns give up the #6 for Ayton and likely some contracts to make the numbers work. To me that is a ridiculous return.
 
Last edited:

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
91,901
Reaction score
30,344
What if it was Turner, Duarte, and the #6 for Ayton and Shamet?

If the Suns were inclined to do a sign and trade with the Pacers, adding Chris Duarte would make it more attractive.

He was the 13th pick in 2021. IMO, Shamet has been a disappointment and Duarte is on a rookie contract.

 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
If the Suns were inclined to do a sign and trade with the Pacers, adding Chris Duarte would make it more attractive.

He was the 13th pick in 2021. IMO, Shamet has been a disappointment and Duarte is on a rookie contract.

If after all is said and done we don't end up with a starting caliber FC or another starting caliber PG? People will look back like they always do as the Suns once again getting totally screwed in a trade unless you are assuming the #6 turns into that and Duarte is a bonus. If that is the case a ton hinges on that #6.
 

Folster

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
14,820
Reaction score
4,637
If after all is said and done we don't end up with a starting caliber FC or another starting caliber PG? People will look back like they always do as the Suns once again getting totally screwed in a trade unless you are assuming the #6 turns into that and Duarte is a bonus. If that is the case a ton hinges on that #6.

Do teams more frequently regret bad contracts or bad trades?
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
Do teams more frequently regret bad contracts or bad trades?
What is the team situation? Are they rebuilding? Are they reloading? Are they title chasing? The answer to that doesn't apply across the board in every situation. I would say generally speaking teams chasing titles are pretty happy going for it if they think they have a legit chance.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
17,267
Reaction score
10,659
Do teams more frequently regret bad contracts or bad trades?

Sign and trades are different they are almost always one sided. Your pretty much depending on a team doing you a favor

I don’t think I ever remember a sign and trade where two guys of equal caliber got traded.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
91,901
Reaction score
30,344
If after all is said and done we don't end up with a starting caliber FC or another starting caliber PG? People will look back like they always do as the Suns once again getting totally screwed in a trade unless you are assuming the #6 turns into that and Duarte is a bonus. If that is the case a ton hinges on that #6.

Myles Turner is a starting quality FC. A point of hesitation, he is on an expiring contract. If he could be extended this would make a sign and trade more attractive. Of course the Suns would have to hit on #6.

I think Duarte will make a fine guard or SF.

Another idea is to work Brogdon into a larger trade.

What we don't know if the Suns and Ayton have burned bridges.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
Sign and trades are different they are almost always one sided. Your pretty much depending on a team doing you a favor

I don’t think I ever remember a sign and trade where two guys of equal caliber got traded.
It's not likely. Which is why "close to" meaning at least another starting caliber player is not unreasonable. Unless you get lucky with two guys wanting out of their respective teams you are never going to see an Ayton for Embiid type scenario. That's a pipe dream.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
17,267
Reaction score
10,659
Myles Turner is a starting quality FC. A point of hesitation, he is on an expiring contract. If he could be extended this would make a sign and trade more attractive. Of course the Suns would have to hit on #6.

I think Duarte will make a fine guard or SF.

Another idea is to work Brogdon into a larger trade.

What we don't know if the Suns and Ayton have burned bridges.

The whole thing with Turner is he wants to be paid to, but he’s really not that great. He’s a good weak side defender and gets blocks but he’s a really bad man defender and he offers nothing on offense he can’t get his own shot.

He’s pretty limited but he wants to be paid like a star. I wouldn’t trade Ayton for anyone who’s not locked up because then you risk losing the player you just traded for to.

To bad they got rid of Sabonis I think I’d pull the trigger on Sabonis/ Hield for an Ayton/whoever package
 

Folster

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
14,820
Reaction score
4,637
What incentive do teams have to engage in a sign and trade for Ayton?

1. Teams without cap space would have the opportunity to acquire him.
2. Teams with cap space would immediately be hard-capped or close to it by signing Ayton and only have any remaining cap space and minimum contacts to round out their roster
3. The Suns can match any offer and tie up their cap space for precious days while they miss opportunities with other players.

That is the leverage we have.
 
Last edited:

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
91,901
Reaction score
30,344
The whole thing with Turner is he wants to be paid to, but he’s really not that great. He’s a good weak side defender and gets blocks but he’s a really bad man defender and he offers nothing on offense he can’t get his own shot.

He’s pretty limited but he wants to be paid like a star. I wouldn’t trade Ayton for anyone who’s not locked up because then you risk losing the player you just traded for to.

To bad they got rid of Sabonis I think I’d pull the trigger on Sabonis/ Hield for an Ayton/whoever package

Turner would have to be extended, which I don't know is possible, to provide some comfort level with the trade.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
91,901
Reaction score
30,344
What incentive do teams have to engage in a sign and trade for Ayton?

1. Teams without cap space would have the opportunity to acquire him.
2. Teams with cap space would immediately be hard-capped or close to it by signing Ayton and only have any remaining cap space and minimum contacts to round out their roster
3. The Suns can match any offer and tie up their cap space for previous days while they miss opportunities with other players.

That is the leverage we have.

Number 3 is huge for a team that wants to improve in the off season.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
17,267
Reaction score
10,659
What incentive do teams have to engage in a sign and trade for Ayton?

1. Teams without cap space would have the opportunity to acquire him.
2. Teams with cap space would immediately be hard-capped or close to it by signing Ayton and only have any remaining cap space and minimum contacts to round out their roster
3. The Suns can match any offer and tie up their cap space for previous days while they miss opportunities with other players.

That is the leverage we have.

Ayton also has to want to go to that team in a sign and trade. He has all the leverage.
 

Folster

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Posts
14,820
Reaction score
4,637
Ayton also has to want to go to that team in a sign and trade. He has all the leverage.
Good point; although he seems like a sucker for a sales pitch and some fluffing. I'm sure if it gets to it, his agent will provide a list of teams.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
28,429
Reaction score
6,607
Location
Arizona
I think at the end of the day Ayton wants to get paid and doesn't care at this point in his career who it's with unless he wants the most available. If he wants the Max money with the most years he doesn't have leverage. There is only one team that can give him the most available. The Suns. So that alone gives the Suns some leverage even if he wants to leave. Again, assuming he want's the most money available.
 
Top