The Ayton Plan

Bufalay

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The problem with using stats to determine Ayton's defensive value is that sometimes, he absolutely is a great defender - and then there are those games where he just stands around or goes timid due to fouls or an all night gaming session? We get more good nights than bad nights out of him but we still get soft Ayton way too often.

Ya, but you could quantify that observation with these types of stats. Instead of looking at the average value of the stat you could look at the variance. Not sure where such a stat exists, but it would be interesting to see if Ayton's variance is bigger than someone like Giannis.
 

95pro

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Im wondering if Ayton wasn't too happy with Monty's defensive scheme as the Mavs got all the switches they wanted and got Ayton on Luka.

Then it could be the case where cp3 wasn't happy with Monty and/or Ayton as well.

Just my perception but the only two guys who could bring the teams morale down are either Ayton or cp3. cp3 because he's cp3. Ayton because of his character issues. I guess you could say they both have character issues.
 

nashman

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Im wondering if Ayton wasn't too happy with Monty's defensive scheme as the Mavs got all the switches they wanted and got Ayton on Luka.

Then it could be the case where cp3 wasn't happy with Monty and/or Ayton as well.

Just my perception but the only two guys who could bring the teams morale down are either Ayton or cp3. cp3 because he's cp3. Ayton because of his character issues. I guess you could say they both have character issues.
I don’t doubt CP3s desire to win though, he has proved thru his career he goes hard. Ayton is so wishy washy goofball most of the time, his desire to be great is rightfully questionable.
 

82CardsGrad

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Apologies if this was posted already. Have to say, I don't have a problem with Monty calling out DA and letting him know "You Quit on us!"

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Finito

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Im wondering if Ayton wasn't too happy with Monty's defensive scheme as the Mavs got all the switches they wanted and got Ayton on Luka.

Then it could be the case where cp3 wasn't happy with Monty and/or Ayton as well.

Just my perception but the only two guys who could bring the teams morale down are either Ayton or cp3. cp3 because he's cp3. Ayton because of his character issues. I guess you could say they both have character issues.

Ayton did really well against Luka. On plays where Ayton guarded Luka he held him to -7.8 compared to Luka against anyone else.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Interesting indeed

I expect so much more from you. Those stats are ridiculously misleading

If your gonna except Ayton at 49 then your gonna look me in the eye and tell me Jay Crowder is the 6th best defensive player in the NBA. So you think Crowder is the 6th best defensive player in the NBA and was our best defender last year, is that accurate?

Oh and Bridges the runner up for DPOY is the 27th best defender in the league.

Oh yes and the guy who actually won DPOY Marcus Smart…not even on the list(top 40)

Bruh
I asked for advanced defensive stats and he gave them. They are what they are. It’s a data point for me. If you take umbrage with those stats argue why their process is faulty maybe.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I asked for advanced defensive stats and he gave them. They are what they are. It’s a data point for me. If you take umbrage with those stats argue why their process is faulty maybe.
My issue with advanced defensive stats is that they take no account into just simply executing your role within the defense (how could they?). There is so much nuance in NBA defense that there is no accurate way to measure it with stats. For instance Luka regularly does well in advanced defensive statistics, but we all know he's not good on that end.

The one stat I do like is the DFG% stats. Though the limitation on that is it only accounts for on ball defense when your man shoots the ball.
 

Finito

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I asked for advanced defensive stats and he gave them. They are what they are. It’s a data point for me. If you take umbrage with those stats argue why their process is faulty maybe.

Oh I totally agree stats can be very useful

I personally don’t think they tell the whole story and it’s pretty obvious.

For example do you think Marcus Smart the DPOY in the NBA isn’t one of the 50 best defenders in the NBA?

I mean we can’t pick and choose certain players they work and don’t work for, surely you agree
 

Folster

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If we end up trading Ayton, I hope it's to a team with a top 4 pick so we can draft Jaden Ivey. He looks like the explosive backcourt mate we need to pair with CP3 and Book.
 

AzStevenCal

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If we end up trading Ayton, I hope it's to a team with a top 4 pick so we can draft Jaden Ivey. He looks like the explosive backcourt mate we need to pair with CP3 and Book.
Yeah he'd be a great fit.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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My issue with advanced defensive stats is that they take no account into just simply executing your role within the defense (how could they?). There is so much nuance in NBA defense that there is no accurate way to measure it with stats. For instance Luka regularly does well in advanced defensive statistics, but we all know he's not good on that end.

The one stat I do like is the DFG% stats. Though the limitation on that is it only accounts for on ball defense when your man shoots the ball.
I had to ask for them because I tend not to follow any advanced stats in bball and football because ultimately they all have shortcomings. As I mentioned, they serve as a single data point among many.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Oh I totally agree stats can be very useful

I personally don’t think they tell the whole story and it’s pretty obvious.

For example do you think Marcus Smart the DPOY in the NBA isn’t one of the 50 best defenders in the NBA?

I mean we can’t pick and choose certain players they work and don’t work for, surely you agree
Yes I agree. I also think Marcus smart is overrated as a defender. But I think that about bridges too.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Speaking with our dad last night he brought up a good point . . . the magic landed the #2 pick. Imo the top three players in this draft are really PFs. And all three are big and can shoot. But the magic don’t really need more forwards. They could better use a higher end center. So it got me back to thinking about the magic. Maybe the #2 (Jabari, Chet, or panchero) and Anthony? I dunno I’m grasping at straws.
 

Folster

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Speaking with our dad last night he brought up a good point . . . the magic landed the #2 pick. Imo the top three players in this draft are really PFs. And all three are big and can shoot. But the magic don’t really need more forwards. They could better use a higher end center. So it got me back to thinking about the magic. Maybe the #2 (Jabari, Chet, or panchero) and Anthony? I dunno I’m grasping at straws.

The #1 pick has such a psycological premium. Remember how we felt when we had it?
 

cheesebeef

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Speaking with our dad last night he brought up a good point . . . the magic landed the #2 pick. Imo the top three players in this draft are really PFs. And all three are big and can shoot. But the magic don’t really need more forwards. They could better use a higher end center. So it got me back to thinking about the magic. Maybe the #2 (Jabari, Chet, or panchero) and Anthony? I dunno I’m grasping at straws.
Magic got #1.
 

GatorAZ

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I think the Suns really wanted Sabonis but they were too good at the time. You just can’t break up a high-60’s win pace team at the deadline.

We need to be realistic in a S&T that we’re not getting an all-star player back. Maybe try for a scoring wing/big from a bad team that may want DA like Jerami Grant or Christian Wood. Also separately revisit Eric Gordon if they’re willing to take Shamet and a lightly protected pick.
 

Muggz

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I think the Suns really wanted Sabonis but they were too good at the time. You just can’t break up a high-60’s win pace team at the deadline.

We need to be realistic in a S&T that we’re not getting an all-star player back. Maybe try for a scoring wing/big from a bad team that may want DA like Jerami Grant or Christian Wood. Also separately revisit Eric Gordon if they’re willing to take Shamet and a lightly protected pick.
But...but Flex said it was gonna be a superstar.
 

Hoop Head

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Magic have quite a few players I'd be interested in. Wendell Carter Jr, Cole Anthony, Jonathan Isaac, and Franz Wagner.

If we could get 2 of those guys I'd be happy. I think we should also get a pick in return, probably lottery or top 10 protected. If we could get 3 of them, I'd be ecstatic. I know there are some question marks for some of them but I think all have the potential to be good starters, although I'm not sure any would be All-Stars.
 

cheesebeef

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Magic have quite a few players I'd be interested in. Wendell Carter Jr, Cole Anthony, Jonathan Isaac, and Franz Wagner.

If we could get 2 of those guys I'd be happy. I think we should also get a pick in return, probably lottery or top 10 protected. If we could get 3 of them, I'd be ecstatic. I know there are some question marks for some of them but I think all have the potential to be good starters, although I'm not sure any would be All-Stars.
Lol… they have CAP ROOM. Why would they potentially trade us 3 up and coming players for Ayton when they can just sign him?
 

SirStefan32

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Lol… they have CAP ROOM. Why would they potentially trade us 3 up and coming players for Ayton when they can just sign him?
Theoretically, because Ayton is a restricted free agent and the Suns can match any offer they make. That said, I agree with your sentiment- I doubt they'd trade multiple good young players for Ayton.
 

Hoop Head

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Lol… they have CAP ROOM. Why would they potentially trade us 3 up and coming players for Ayton when they can just sign him?

Where did I say they would give up 3 players? I said I'd be ecstatic if we got 3 of them but I never said they would.

Like SirStefan said, Ayton is restricted and we could match any offer sheet they sign him to. If they're really interested in adding Ayton then they'll need to work out a trade with the Suns so the offer sheet isn't matched.

The Magic are starting to get a crowded frontcourt and it will be worse after they make their pick in the draft. There just isn't enough playing time for all of the Forwards they have. If they can flip a couple players for Ayton to fill their Center spot then they'll also have more cap space to fill other holes.

Nowhere did I say a deal with them is likely for any of their youngsters, let alone multiple.
 

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