The Ayton Plan

Sparky16

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It likely would’nt be a total rebuild due to booker’s growth, bridges, Ayton (or whatever we get for him), cam Johnson and cam Payne. That team is likely still a playoff, or no worse than play-in team that’s just searching for its next big piece, be that hitting on a draft pick (unlikely given James jones proclivities) or some major trade.
I hope the Suns trade DA to like Atlanta for something like Capela/Bogdanovic... and Crowder/Saric for Randle.... DA is fools gold he simply does not care or to stupid to figure it out
 

overseascardfan

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I wonder if ATL would be willing to swap frontcourts in a trade post 12/15:

PHX gets: Capela, Collins & Okongwu
ATL gets: Ayton, Crowder & Saric
 

ASUCHRIS

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I wonder if ATL would be willing to swap frontcourts in a trade post 12/15:

PHX gets: Capela, Collins & Okongwu
ATL gets: Ayton, Crowder & Saric
Capela isn't as good as Ayton, and Collins isn't much of an upgrade over what we have. Re-arranging the deck chairs here.
 

Mainstreet

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Again, Ayton can't be traded until January 15th and only with his consent.

There is a pool of players signed this summer that will be available to be traded on December 15th.
 

overseascardfan

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Capela isn't as good as Ayton, and Collins isn't much of an upgrade over what we have. Re-arranging the deck chairs here.
Except Capela is a much better defender and always give maximum effort whereas Ayton contributes when he feels like it.

Crowder is on vacation and Saric is a liability defensively and hasn't provided much on offense so Collins athleticism and potential to me are an upgrade. Okongwu is a bonus because he could platoon with Collins at PF and shift Cam back to bench to add more punch to that unit.
 

leclerc

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Let's replace CP3 and hope that Ayton player of the week returns. We should get something for CP3, Crowder et.al. I love CP3 but right now he's not giving us much if Ayton shrivels up and Payne goes missing. Rather get back in the groove with Champayne and Dominayton. Why can't we have nice things?
 

Phrazbit

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Except Capela is a much better defender and always give maximum effort whereas Ayton contributes when he feels like it.

Crowder is on vacation and Saric is a liability defensively and hasn't provided much on offense so Collins athleticism and potential to me are an upgrade. Okongwu is a bonus because he could platoon with Collins at PF and shift Cam back to bench to add more punch to that unit.

Capela is not a better defender than Ayton, it isn't even close. The only thing Calepa is better at than Ayton is rebounding, at every other facet of the game Ayton is miles better.

Collins is a mess right now and has a putrid contract. I don't know what happened to Collins but he's a train wreck right now, he is a terrible defender and he is shooting 21% outside. He has negative trade value, the Hawks have been trying to dump him for over a year and have had no takers.

Watch some Atlanta games. Capela and Collins are NOT a strength for them, they're a massive liability. Atlanta's interior defending is among the worst in the NBA. And Collins and Capela both suck out loud away from the basket.
 

Sparky16

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Capela isn't as good as Ayton, and Collins isn't much of an upgrade over what we have. Re-arranging the deck chairs here.
Capela is better than DA for what the Suns need and cheaper and if it brings another player like Bogdanovic who can actually be a decent swing G even better
 

Finito

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This isn’t a bad roster. It’s a roster desperately missing a second superstar and even more than that, one that desperately needs CHANGE to juice it back up.

And KD is still a #1 Superstar.

It’s so frustrating because everyone can see what needs to be done
 

Proximo

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It’s so frustrating because everyone can see what needs to be done
Knowing what needs to be done, and having the ability to do it without destroying the team are two entirely different things.
 

Finito

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Knowing what needs to be done, and having the ability to do it without destroying the team are two entirely different things.

That’s the risk you take trying to win a championship. I think it was Ouchie that pointed out several examples

Toronto had a nice 50 win team going to second round every year but when Kawhi became available they took a swing.

You can name a bunch more.
 

overseascardfan

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Capela is not a better defender than Ayton, it isn't even close. The only thing Calepa is better at than Ayton is rebounding, at every other facet of the game Ayton is miles better.

Collins is a mess right now and has a putrid contract. I don't know what happened to Collins but he's a train wreck right now, he is a terrible defender and he is shooting 21% outside. He has negative trade value, the Hawks have been trying to dump him for over a year and have had no takers.

Watch some Atlanta games. Capela and Collins are NOT a strength for them, they're a massive liability. Atlanta's interior defending is among the worst in the NBA. And Collins and Capela both suck out loud away from the basket.

I have no idea where you are getting Ayton is the better defender. Capela is 48th in defensive rating and 19th in defensive w/s while Ayton is nowhere in Top 50 in defensive rating and is 40th in defensive w/s. Also, Capela is a much better shot blocker which Ayton should be ashamed of given his size and athletic ability.

Ayton is a much better offensive player no doubt but the problem is an unmotivated Ayton is not an offensive threat, he is too comfortable deferring shots to his teammates which we've seen since he's been in the NBA, he is extremely passive.

Collins maybe in a slump this year but my point is what is PHX getting from Crowder sitting at home and Saric barely playing that Collins wouldn't be considered an upgrade? Craig and Johnson aren't suited to play PF full time and would solidify bench with Landale, Biyombo, Lee, Payne and Okogie.

Defense as a whole has been bad but front court seems to be getting exploited by lack of length.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I have no idea where you are getting Ayton is the better defender. Capela is 48th in defensive rating and 19th in defensive w/s while Ayton is nowhere in Top 50 in defensive rating and is 40th in defensive w/s. Also, Capela is a much better shot blocker which Ayton should be ashamed of given his size and athletic ability.

Ayton is a much better offensive player no doubt but the problem is an unmotivated Ayton is not an offensive threat, he is too comfortable deferring shots to his teammates which we've seen since he's been in the NBA, he is extremely passive.

Collins maybe in a slump this year but my point is what is PHX getting from Crowder sitting at home and Saric barely playing that Collins wouldn't be considered an upgrade? Craig and Johnson aren't suited to play PF full time and would solidify bench with Landale, Biyombo, Lee, Payne and Okogie.

Defense as a whole has been bad but front court seems to be getting exploited by lack of length.
This trade doesn't make us better. Ayton contributes much more overall than Capela, and Collins is so undesirable that they can't give him away.

I agree that we need to make moves, but I sure as hell hope they're better than an Ayton/Collins-Capela swap, because that isn't going to move the needle in any meaningful way.
 

overseascardfan

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This trade doesn't make us better. Ayton contributes much more overall than Capela, and Collins is so undesirable that they can't give him away.

I agree that we need to make moves, but I sure as hell hope they're better than an Ayton/Collins-Capela swap, because that isn't going to move the needle in any meaningful way.
I agree Ayton gives more offensive production than Capela but that doesn't seem to help on a consistent basis. He's too hot and cold.

I don't see a lot of Ayton trade options at this point. ATL and IND see to be most logical trade fits but Turner and Hield won't be much better than Capela & Collins.
 

Proximo

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That’s the risk you take trying to win a championship. I think it was Ouchie that pointed out several examples

Toronto had a nice 50 win team going to second round every year but when Kawhi became available they took a swing.

You can name a bunch more.
All I am saying is maybe Jones does not see that kind of opportunity currently existing. If that is the case I don't understand how you can criticize him - especially when you don't even know what it would actually take to make a KD trade, or if the Suns even have enough to make the Nets happy.
 

ASUCHRIS

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ATL and IND see to be most logical trade fits but Turner and Hield won't be much better than Capela & Collins.
Yeah, I don't have much interest in either option. If no head turning trade appears, hold on to Ayton, and don't sell him for two dimes for a quarter. He oddly seems to be in the best head space of his career, so unless he's causing some major drama behind the scenes, keep him until you find a deal you can't refuse.

Ayton is much more the solution than the problem on our current team. We're desperately in need of another reliable scoring option, and probably need at least 2 upgrades. If we were able to acquire Gordon for Crowder/scraps, it would be a huge move in the right direction.
 

Finito

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All I am saying is maybe Jones does not see that kind of opportunity currently existing. If that is the case I don't understand how you can criticize him - especially when you don't even know what it would actually take to make a KD trade, or if the Suns even have enough to make the Nets happy.

KD was just one of the rumors. I don’t see how you can continue to cape for him when it was obvious to everyone that this team had real legit issues after the way last season ended and not one was addressed in the offseason.

If he feels this team isn’t going anywhere then you should blow it up. Being in the middle of the pack is the worst position you can be in. You either want to be a contender or be in the lottery stock piling draft picks.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That’s the risk you take trying to win a championship. I think it was Ouchie that pointed out several examples

Toronto had a nice 50 win team going to second round every year but when Kawhi became available they took a swing.

You can name a bunch more.
It was cheese
 

Finito

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I hope the Suns trade DA to like Atlanta for something like Capela/Bogdanovic... and Crowder/Saric for Randle.... DA is fools gold he simply does not care or to stupid to figure it out

Lol
 

Finito

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I agree Ayton gives more offensive production than Capela but that doesn't seem to help on a consistent basis. He's too hot and cold.

I don't see a lot of Ayton trade options at this point. ATL and IND see to be most logical trade fits but Turner and Hield won't be much better than Capela & Collins.

If you’re still on the trade Ayton bandwagon then you just don’t like him. You’re not trading him for anyone that can do what he does, then factor in age and that contract is going to look like a bargain when the NBAs deal comes up
 

Phrazbit

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I have no idea where you are getting Ayton is the better defender. Capela is 48th in defensive rating and 19th in defensive w/s while Ayton is nowhere in Top 50 in defensive rating and is 40th in defensive w/s. Also, Capela is a much better shot blocker which Ayton should be ashamed of given his size and athletic ability.

Ayton is a much better offensive player no doubt but the problem is an unmotivated Ayton is not an offensive threat, he is too comfortable deferring shots to his teammates which we've seen since he's been in the NBA, he is extremely passive.

Collins maybe in a slump this year but my point is what is PHX getting from Crowder sitting at home and Saric barely playing that Collins wouldn't be considered an upgrade? Craig and Johnson aren't suited to play PF full time and would solidify bench with Landale, Biyombo, Lee, Payne and Okogie.

Defense as a whole has been bad but front court seems to be getting exploited by lack of length.
That stat is terrible as an individual metric.

It has Kevin love among the leagues best defenders, it has Saric above AD and Capela and the list is largely guys who never see the court.

Look at defensive win share totals. Last year Ayton posted significantly more in significantly less playing time. Ayton is one of the most versatile defensive bigs in the league, he chases out perpetrators and can switch and defend the perimeter as well as any big in the league.
 

overseascardfan

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If you’re still on the trade Ayton bandwagon then you just don’t like him. You’re not trading him for anyone that can do what he does, then factor in age and that contract is going to look like a bargain when the NBAs deal comes up
I always liked him, wanted PHX to re-sign him and was against trade rumors involving Poetl, Keldon Johnson, Myles Turner, etc. The problem is he is getting paid like a star and should be challenging Booker as the top offensive option on this team but he seems content being the 3rd or 4th option.

In 25 games this year, he scored 20 points or over 9 times. It should be rare for him to be under 20 PPG with his skill level.
 

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