The Ayton Plan

Phrazbit

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Book and Ayton couldn’t sniff Kobe or Shaq’s jock. At least those two guys were two of the greatest of all time. I get the ego battle there.

Here? Give me a break.

And their beef arose as a by product of their success. Shaq grew fat on it (literally) and Kobe became more and more self centered and glory hungry.
 

Fumats20

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Do people here really believe that not extending Jaden Smith was Sarver's fault/mistake and not a bad evaluation of talent by James Jones/Monty Williams?

Again I don't know the CBA the way I did at one point, so please straighten me out if I misunderstanding something. I don't understand what the advantage is in maxing out DA last summer rather than doing it this summer or matching an offer if they did not want his fifth year on the deal. Supposedly, and I think it's widely excepted, that he and his agent were looking for the full max for all five years. I would almost considerate you're responsible from an ownership standpoint, especially in this case with DA.

For all the issues with Sarver I actually think the not wanting to spend money on the players has been way over blown. That said I would like to move on just to be done with it and maybe we luck out with a multi billionaire owner who spends a lot of money on the team and and in all the right places

Now tell me all the reasons I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Joe
I think it was a convenient excuse for the owners on the money part. How your accountants & lawyers didnt tell you by draft night 2020 that the 10th pick would cause you more money problems if you plan to keep your 2018 1st pick ...and then you don't trade the 2020 10th pick starting draft night like you had the chance over the next 2 years when all the teams were constantly asking. If all teams operated like the Suns did for this 2020 10th pick what's the point of even picking.

Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played real time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully very interested in your response.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played real time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully very interested in your response.
Do we simply dismiss all the times he played for us where he was the worst player on the court? That was his career until a few months after we screwed up and chose to not extend him. He was flat out horrible. Not that he got a lot of opportunity but that wasn't the team's fault.

He reportedly didn't work hard enough as a rookie, he got Covid, he got injured, he got an opportunity on a G League team where he was virtually unplayable most nights and then did nothing once we brought him back until we finally played him at center. Blame the coach for never using him at that position before but there were a lot of factors in play that led to us losing him for nothing, not all of those are on the front office.
 

AzStevenCal

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You mean the way the Lakers did with Andrew Bynum?
Was this intended as sarcasm?

Bynum was with the Lakers for 8 years and they didn't give up on him until he missed a full season with a knee injury. And even with DA's warts he's been a much better player than Bynum ever was.
 

Fumats20

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Do people here really believe that not extending Jaden Smith was Sarver's fault/mistake and not a bad evaluation of talent by James Jones/Monty Williams?

Again I don't know the CBA the way I did at one point, so please straighten me out if I misunderstanding something. I don't understand what the advantage is in maxing out DA last summer rather than doing it this summer or matching an offer if they did not want his fifth year on the deal. Supposedly, and I think it's widely excepted, that he and his agent were looking for the full max for all five years. I would almost considerate you're responsible from an ownership standpoint, especially in this case with DA.

For all the issues with Sarver I actually think the not wanting to spend money on the players has been way over blown. That said I would like to move on just to be done with it and maybe we luck out with a multi billionaire owner who spends a lot of money on the team and and in all the right places

Now tell me all the reasons I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Joe
Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played resl time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully ery interested in your response.
Do we simply dismiss all the times he played for us where he was the worst player on the court? That was his career until a few months after we screwed up and chose to not extend him. He was flat out horrible. Not that he got a lot of opportunity but that wasn't the team's fault.

He reportedly didn't work hard enough as a rookie, he got Covid, he got injured, he got an opportunity on a G League team where he was virtually unplayable most nights and then did nothing once we brought him back until we finally played him at center. Blame the coach for never using him at that position before but there were a lot of factors in play that led to us losing him for nothing, not all of those are on the front office.Lies.

Do we simply dismiss all the times he played for us where he was the worst player on the court? That was his career until a few months after we screwed up and chose to not extend him. He was flat out horrible. Not that he got a lot of opportunity but that wasn't the team's fault.

He reportedly didn't work hard enough as a rookie, he got Covid, he got injured, he got an opportunity on a G League team where he was virtually unplayable most nights and then did nothing once we brought him back until we finally played him at center. Blame the coach for never using him at that position before but there were a lot of factors in play that led to us losing him for nothing, not all of those are on the front office.
So why did he so drastically improve with no playing time and a bad work ethic in such a short amount of time?
 

Finito

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Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played resl time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully ery interested in your response.



So why did he so drastically improve with no playing time and a bad work ethic in such a short amount of time?

It’s just taking up for the organization.
 

Mainstreet

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I think Lavine is one of the most overrated players in the league. Extremely selfish on offense, a defensive doormat, injury prone. I think Booker would hate playing with him.

I was making a case for Zach LaVine because someone brought it up. He is not on my radar.
 

AzStevenCal

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Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played resl time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully ery interested in your response.



So why did he so drastically improve with no playing time and a bad work ethic in such a short amount of time?
I think it's a little extreme to say "bad work ethic", let's just say it was less than ideal. We didn't hear much about it, just a comment from DA when talking about Jalen's improvement. He said something like "he didn't realize how hard he needed to work at this level".

Because of his frame, mobility and outside shot we penciled him in as a stretch PF but he could never catch on to his defensive responsibilities out there. Once injury forced us to move him to the center spot, his comfort level soared and he started putting up solid numbers for us. He was still a nightmare on defensive rotations but his individual defense was greatly improved as was his offensive game.

Look, losing him hurts and that's on us. Big guys often take longer to develop and we gave up on him far too early - all we had to do was play it safe and extend him like teams almost always do. But as mistakes go, IMO, it was very understandable and circumstances outside our control contributed greatly to our mistake. He didn't get a chance to develop in Summer League because it was cancelled his rookie year. Then, our preseason was shortened because of Covid and then after the season started he was out for awhile because of Covid in addition to missing time due to injury. That made developing him difficult especially for a team trying to become a championship contender.

Anyway, despite his numbers, we really don't know how good he can be but whatever his ceiling is he's already shown skills that we could really use. I think his legend though is growing at a faster rate than his game. He's never been a part of defensive scouting reports, let's see how he does when he gets regular minutes for a team that isn't outright tanking.
 

Mainstreet

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Do we simply dismiss all the times he played for us where he was the worst player on the court? That was his career until a few months after we screwed up and chose to not extend him. He was flat out horrible. Not that he got a lot of opportunity but that wasn't the team's fault.

It's still not an excuse for the Suns giving up on a second year player although if the Suns had given up on Smith after summer league I wouldn't have said a word. However, he flashed his ability before the Suns decided not to pick his option. Enough so, I was irate the Suns didn't keep him.

He reportedly didn't work hard enough as a rookie, he got Covid, he got injured, he got an opportunity on a G League team where he was virtually unplayable most nights and then did nothing once we brought him back until we finally played him at center. Blame the coach for never using him at that position before but there were a lot of factors in play that led to us losing him for nothing, not all of those are on the front office.

I don't recall hearing Jalen Smith did not work hard enough except for some comments by Ayton which hinted he may not have loved the game enough after he was traded.

IMO, the Suns failed to be patient with Smith as he made the transition from center to power forward.

They simply gave up on him too early, something that most organizations wouldn't do.
 

big al

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You mean the way the Lakers did with Andrew Bynum?
That's all a part of the process. No team or nobody has won all their battles. As no team has won 82 games out of the 82 games. Some teams have come close however. The cream raises to the top. We battle through adversity to gain favor. The point is some raise to the top and some struggle mighty. Suns are struggling now. You can't win them all but you got to battle nonetheless.
 

Mainstreet

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The source is a friend of Ayton’s tattoo artist, so take it with a grain of salt.

Even if Booker and Monty got into it with Ayton, you work it out.

The Celtics were really getting into it with each other during the Miami series yet they advanced.
 

cheesebeef

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Was this intended as sarcasm?

Bynum was with the Lakers for 8 years and they didn't give up on him until he missed a full season with a knee injury. And even with DA's warts he's been a much better player than Bynum ever was.
And they didn’t even really give up on him then, they used him as the centerpiece to land Dwight Howard who was still All-NBA at the time.
 

Fumats20

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DA, of all people, words being used to describe another's players (who best performed in DA's position) effort & desire is very interesting.

Yet there's video from another coach who used to be in the Suns program explaining Smith with ethic, improvement behind the scenes and explaining why the Suns took him 10th.

I think DA comments were taken out of context and really don't matter when publicly trumped by head coaches & CP3 himself.
 

cheesebeef

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DA, of all people, words being used to describe another's players (who best performed in DA's position) effort & desire is very interesting.

Yet there's video from another coach who used to be in the Suns program explaining Smith with ethic, improvement behind the scenes and explaining why the Suns took him 10th.

I think DA comments were taken out of context and really don't matter when publicly trumped by head coaches & CP3 himself.
Considering how ridiculously off-base Ayton’s talk is about his own game, I think anything said by Ayton about anyone else’s game doesn’t mean jack squat.
 

Fumats20

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But none if what's being said explained Smith's drastic improvement in such a short time with no playing time the year & half prior and having a questionable work ethic.

If anything the Suns should trust whatever process they have going on behind the scenes for Smith because all the did was pay $8mil to prepare him for another team because he's ready now.
 
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Mainstreet

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But none if what's being said explained Smith's drastic improvement in such a short time with no playing time the year & half prior abd having a questionable work ethic.

If anything the Suns should trust whatever process they have going on behind the scenes for Smith because all the did was pay $8mil to prepare him for another team because he's ready now.

The reason for Smith's dramatic improvement is they started playing him at center. How ironic is that if the Suns trade Ayton.
 

AzStevenCal

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I just hope it's not a Kobe & Shaq sequel. And I'm not putting Ayton & Booker in Kobe & Shaq's talent level.
I wouldn't mind it being a Kobe & Shaq sequel if it lasted 8 years like their relationship did and if it produced 3 straight championships. Not that I see that happening here.
 

big al

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No they weren't and it's been clear that Booker has been hard on him at times. But Shaq and Kobe clashed pretty regularly for several years before their break up, all we can do is hope they can patch it up for a few more years.
Booker & Ayton although not in the same skill set as Kobe & Shaq might regret later that they didn't make it work as Kobe & Shaq did years later.
Now this is just a personal thought & view but Booker seems to want to be the Man & he couldn't back all his trash talking against Luka & looked foolish and Book wants to lead the team in scoring as he played a lot if hero ball in these past playoffs that didn't work well and Ayton is a young immature and probably didn't stand up for himself enough to all Monty's, Booker's, and CP3 critizing him but he deserved some criticism and now Ayton's fed up and wants out. Shame they all couldn't come to the table to iron their differences oh well change is sometimes good. Now again it's just a thought.

The thing I love about winners like the Warriors they seem to put egos aside and focus on the team success. As Thompson, Wiggins, Green, and Poole weren't butt hurt that Curry got the MVP as they seemed to be happy for him. That's team working together & focusing!
 

big al

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Asking an honest question....How do you explain when "Jalen" Smith played real time on the Suns he produced then went to another team played resl time with Indiana and continued to produced...while the vet the Suns got didn't produce at the same rate before the trade & didn't after? Respectfully ery interested in your response.



So why did he so drastically improve with no playing time and a bad work ethic in such a short amount of time?
Maybe the fire finally got lit with Stix. Motivation & desire as maybe he figured it out as he was watching a very good team(Suns) at least for the regular season with the best seats in the house.
 

AzStevenCal

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Maybe the fire finally got lit with Stix. Motivation & desire as maybe he figured it out as he was watching a very good team(Suns) at least for the regular season with the best seats in the house.
It's as good a possibility as any IMO.
 

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