The 2025 NBA playoffs

[Russ Smith]

The only good thing from this game is the positive games from Kuminga and TJD, if they need them later it will give them a little boost.

Post nothing hasn't gotten back in and Moody's slump continues.

 

[Hoop Head]

Your ability to always homer-out is truly impressive.

I don't think that's a homer take. I'd agree with him. SGA is a better player in any system while Jokic needs a system tailored specifically to him. Jokic is able to make his teammates better but Shai is able to take over individually as a scorer better. It's not that controversial of a take, especially when Shai gets MVP this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think that's a homer take. I'd agree with him. SGA is a better player in any system while Jokic needs a system tailored specifically to him.

Hmmm… not sure I’ve seen evidence to show that SGA is a better player in any system. What are you basing that on? And Jokic doesn’t need a system tailored to him. He’s a system in of itself.

Jokic is able to make his teammates better but Shai is able to take over individually as a scorer better.

Not sure I really see evidence for this either. Shai averages 2.5 ppg more than Jokic while Jokic averages 4 assists more. So they’re almost equals in scoring but Jokic’s playmaking ability is considerably ahead of Shai’s.

It's not that controversial of a take, especially when Shai gets MVP this year.

Crimson’s take was something to the effect of it’s not even close between Jokic and SGA, no? That is a controversial take and quite frankly, a massive overstatement.

EDIT: I misremembered what Crimson posted. Maybe his statement wasn’t that much of an overreach.

And while SGA likely wins MVP this year and I’ve agreed that’s how it should be because of how historically awesome he and the team have been this year, that isn’t proof positive he’s the better player. The MVP trophy has regularly come with team wins being part of the equation. Barkley and Malone weren’t the better player than Jordan when they won their MVPs over him.

And finally, my statement isn’t just based on one post from Crimson. Go read anything on the Cards board about anything Oklahoma and you’ll see where that comment comes from.

 

[Hoop Head]

Hmmm… not sure I’ve seen evidence to show that SGA is a better player in any system. What are you basing that on? And Jokic doesn’t need a system tailored to him. He’s a system in of itself.



Not sure I really see evidence for this either. Shai averages 2.5 ppg more than Jokic while Jokic averages 4 assists more. So they’re almost equals in scoring but Jokic’s playmaking ability is considerably ahead of Shai’s.



Crimson’s take was something to the effect of it’s not even close between Jokic and SGA, no? That is a controversial take and quite frankly, a massive overstatement.

EDIT: I misremembered what Crimson posted. Maybe his statement wasn’t that much of an overreach.

And while SGA likely wins MVP this year and I’ve agreed that’s how it should be because of how historically awesome he and the team have been this year, that isn’t proof positive he’s the better player. The MVP trophy has regularly come with team wins being part of the equation. Barkley and Malone weren’t the better player than Jordan when they won their MVPs over him.

And finally, my statement isn’t just based on one post from Crimson. Go read anything on the Cards board about anything Oklahoma and you’ll see where that comment comes from.

There isn't firm statistical evidence to show Shai is a better scorer than Jokic but if you watch more OKC games then you'll see he has more natural scoring ability than Jokic. He looks to score more than Jokic as Jokic often focuses on the best shot for his team. It's something you have to see to really get a grasp on. Ive watched probably 20+ OKC games this season and Shai has been otherworldly. He's like a prime Kyrie on offense except bigger and he plays good defense as well. That's the closest comp I can think of right now. He's a special talent.


Not that Jokic isn't fantastic but I think fatigue might have set in for me and seeing him be "The Joker" for 4-5 years now, I might not appreciate his game as much as I should. He's great, no doubt about it but it's easy to grow accustomed to what he contributes so his standout performances are few and far between.

If both were the same age and cost the same amount, I'd take Shai over Jokic simply because I think you need that alpha who can put the team on their back. Maybe I'm wrong but Jokic only doing that once works against him in my view.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think that's a homer take. I'd agree with him. SGA is a better player in any system while Jokic needs a system tailored specifically to him. Jokic is able to make his teammates better but Shai is able to take over individually as a scorer better. It's not that controversial of a take, especially when Shai gets MVP this year.

I couldn't disagree more. I think Joker is one of the greatest big men I've ever seen, and could play in any system and any era. SGA is having a great year but that is a talent laden team he's leading whereas Jokic has to pretty much carry that roster.

 

[Ronin]

Kristaps Porziņģis' lingering illness looms large over a Celtics team looking for answers

Trying to climb out of an 0-2 hole, the Celtics could really use the return of their 7-foot-3 unicorn.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Carolinacacti]

Porzingis is not the same player too many injuries. Hope the Suns don't trade for him

 

[BirdGangThing]

i don't even think sga should get the mvp but i get it

 

[Mainstreet]

I like both Shai and Jokic a lot. It's a tough comparison, but I think Jokic gets the nod for now as he has won more deserved awards and honors.

Also, they play different positions.

Let's look back in a few years.

Here is a head-to-head stat comparison for their entire careers thus far.

Nikola Jokić vs. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Nikola Jokić and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

Porzingis is not the same player too many injuries. Hope the Suns don't trade for him

Trading for Porzingis makes very little sense to me. Older, injury prone and a big contract.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Trading for Porzingis makes very little sense to me. Older, injury prone and a big contract.

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[Suns_fan69]

Trading for Porzingis makes very little sense to me. Older, injury prone and a big contract.

Funny, I assumed it was a giant contract as well but it's not nearly as bad as I thought: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/17832/kristaps-porzingis

His contract is 'only' 30m and expires at the end of the 25-26 season. That's.... not bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Funny, I assumed it was a giant contract as well but it's not nearly as bad as I though: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/17832/kristaps-porzingis

His contract is 'only' 30m and expires at the end of the 25-26 season. That's.... not bad.

You’re right. That’s not bad. In that case, we’d basically be trading for an older, injury prone expiring contract? Not sure how that helps us either unless we’re just looking for ways to wipe money off the books.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You’re right. That’s not bad. So, we’d basically be trading for an older, injury prone expiring contract? Not sure how that helps us either unless we’re just looking for ways to wipe money off the books.

Yeah if we were dumping Beal for something like this, it would make a lot of sense. But the dollars don't work so I see no value in exploring it. Unfortunately, our front office apparently still thinks we're just a smart move away from contention so who knows what they'll consider doing.

 

[Suns_fan69]

You’re right. That’s not bad. So, we’d basically be trading for an older, injury prone expiring contract? Not sure how that helps us either unless we’re just looking for ways to wipe money off the books.

Yeah, I assume it'd be a mechanism to try and get under 2nd apron, but unfortunately Boston is also in 2nd apron so it'd have to be a 1 for 1 with no aggregations either way; Phoenix doesn't have anybody that matches that salary.

I guess in theory a 3rd team with capspace could facilitate but that becomes pretty complicated.

 

[Raindog]

Trading for Porzingis makes very little sense to me. Older, injury prone and a big contract.

Actually, you probably just highlighted all of the reasons the Suns are making plans to trade for him at this very moment.

 

[BirdGangThing]

jokic has had 164 triple doubles with 21 of them coming in the playoffs - jokic had 34 triple doubles this season alone - good for 4th most in history

sga has had two triple doubles - total

the offensive rebounds alone - the invaluable rim protection he brings - jokic is second in the entire nba when it comes to assists - there is only one guy who gets more assists than jokic and his name isn't sga - it's haliburton - i honestly just can't - sga is a great player but he hasn't done ish compared to jokic and can't do ish compared to jokic - this conversation shouldn't be taking place - jokic is in his own league - on his own planet - toughest dude on the court but plays with the grace of amanda gorman - cp3 level genius even when it comes to drawing fouls - uses his massive size and timing so wisely he can do it in slow motion and its still unstoppable - yeah i think im good on this debate

 

[Hoop Head]

jokic has had 164 triple doubles with 21 of them coming in the playoffs - jokic had 34 triple doubles this season alone - good for 4th most in history

sga has had two triple doubles - total

the offensive rebounds alone - the invaluable rim protection he brings - jokic is second in the entire nba when it comes to assists - there is only one guy who gets more assists than jokic and his name isn't sga - it's haliburton - i honestly just can't - sga is a great player but he hasn't done ish compared to jokic and can't do ish compared to jokic - this conversation shouldn't be taking place - jokic is in his own league - on his own planet - toughest dude on the court but plays with the grace of amanda gorman - cp3 level genius even when it comes to drawing fouls - uses his massive size and timing so wisely he can do it in slow motion and its still unstoppable - yeah i think im good on this debate

Want to argue Russ is the GOAT since he has more triple doubles than anyone? Your argument seems to rest on triple doubles. Tell me you haven't watched OKC without saying you don't watch OKC.

 

[GatorAZ]

Want to argue Russ is the GOAT since he has more triple doubles than anyone? Your argument seems to rest on triple doubles. Tell me you haven't watched OKC without saying you don't watch OKC.

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Russ was inefficiently stat padding in OKC while Denver needs every one of Joker’s numbers. If you remove Jokic Denver is a legitimately bad team. Take Shai off the Thunder and they’re still a 50 win team. I don’t have any issues with SGA winning MVP but Jokic is the best player of his generation (post-prime LeBron).

 

[Hoop Head]

.
Russ was inefficiently stat padding in OKC while Denver needs every one of Joker’s numbers. If you remove Jokic Denver is a legitimately bad team. Take Shai off the Thunder and they’re still a 50 win team. I don’t have any issues with SGA winning MVP but Jokic is the best player of his generation (post-prime LeBron).

Not debating Russ' efficiency. When someone devotes a paragraph to the number of triple doubles two guys have as a measure of their impact though it's fair to bring Russ into the equation. Then the claims Jokic is a rim protector? It shows a level of ignorance and hyper focus on box score stats.

No one is arguing Jokic isn't great. I'd agree he's a generational talent and the best foreign born NBA player but this isn't about their career, it's about this season. Shai has carried OKC while they played a large portion of their season without a legit big as Chet missed 40+ games and Hartenstein missed 20+ games. They still managed to set an NBA record for point differential.

 

[BirdGangThing]

anybody who says they'd take sga over jokic (to build a team around) is either an okc fan or worse lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

.
Russ was inefficiently stat padding in OKC while Denver needs every one of Joker’s numbers. If you remove Jokic Denver is a legitimately bad team. Take Shai off the Thunder and they’re still a 50 win team. I don’t have any issues with SGA winning MVP but Jokic is the best player of his generation (post-prime LeBron).

Yeah… I bump against the implicit Russ Jokic comparison to try and discount Jokic’s eye popping stats. Russ’ numbers never won his teams anything in the playoffs, whereas Jokic regularly lifts that entire team to at least a first round series W, while also taking the Nuggets to the WCF twice. Oh… and he won a NBA Title. Dude puts up ridiculous stats and wins playoff series, while his best Co-Star has never even been an All-Star.

With the All-Time greats, Hakeem is only one who comes to mind that’s probably done more with less than Jokic, while winning a chip.

 

[Cheesebeef]

anybody who says they'd take sga over jokic (to build a team around) is either an okc fan or worse lol - like way worse - like i hope they don't make big decisions irl worse

I know I’m a guy who’s started and been involved in lots of beef over the years (pun not intended), but that last sentence ain’t necessary.

 

[Hoop Head]

anybody who says they'd take sga over jokic (to build a team around) is either an okc fan or worse lol - like way worse - like i hope they don't make big decisions irl worse

Says the guy who can't even figure out where to watch most playoff games.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't adjust to the coloration of the Pacers home court, logo, along with the uniforms.

Those two shades of gray, plus the black, white, blue and bright yellow are a color shock for my eyes.