Tank For Toppin

sinsay

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Is it time for the Suns to do a semi tank in hopes of getting a better draft spot.

Toppin seems like a perfect fit for the Suns. A seasoned stretch PF with bounce.

Also, a good time to see what Jalen and Harper can bring with extended mins.

The Suns can find a backup PG in FA but a starting PF is the biggest need.
 
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SunnyBaller

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If draft boards have any legitimacy at all we are fine where we are most likely, I don't think I've seen him get drafted anywhere higher then 6 normally he's there at 10, I don't know why he'd go that low but there's that
 

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This team's biggest problem is maintaining their energy level and not just plain quitting. The last thing we should do right now is tank.
 

Mainstreet

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The Suns are not good enough to tank. They are that bad.

Since 2014-15 the Suns have won 39, 23, 24, 21, 19 and so far this season 24 games.

This will be the Suns 6th losing season in a row. Suns could give lessons in losing.
 

leclerc

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Well with Oubre and Ayton out I don't see many wins on the horizon, so just keep playing hard against good teams and choke against the bad ones, and we'll be in good position to get a lottery pick.
 

devilalum

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Suns don’t need to tank. They have 20 games left. They’ll be lucky if they win 5. Hopefully they’ll give some marginal players some extra minutes to help decide what to do this summer. Maybe they’ll get lucky. The new lotto rules were made to benefit teams like this years Suns.


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Mainstreet

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'Tanking' got the Suns the 6th pick last year. How'd that work out?

I'm opposed to tanking but that could have turned out well like drafting Jaxson Hayes at #6 or Brandon Clarke in a trade down.
 
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sinsay

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I said tank for Toppin. Not Ty Jerome and or Cam.

I wanted the Suns to make the 8th seed at least all season. Now that the injury bug continues to bite the team time to prepare for next year. Play Jalen and get in position to get Toppin.
 

Mainstreet

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I said tank for Toppin. Not Ty Jerome and or Cam.

I wanted the Suns to make the 8th seed at least all season. Now that the injury bug continues to bite the team time to prepare for next year. Play Jalen and get in position to get Toppin.

In case you didn't know, there is a long history of division on the forum in regard to tanking.

It's a lot of been there and done that without much results to show for it.
 

AzStevenCal

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In case you didn't know, there is a long history of division on the forum in regard to tanking.

It's a lot of been there and done that without much results to show for it.

In order to succeed at the highest level in the NBA you need an effective management team (ownership, coaches, scouts etc.) and you need some luck. It turns out you still need these things even when you tank and, sadly, we were lacking in both categories.
 

Mainstreet

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In order to succeed at the highest level in the NBA you need an effective management team (ownership, coaches, scouts etc.) and you need some luck. It turns out you still need these things even when you tank and, sadly, we were lacking in both categories.

And the question for me, do the Suns have all the ingredients now?

I feel good about the coaching for the most part. However, the ownership hasn't changed and there are questions about the players Jones added in free agency and how he may have misplayed the draft.

Also I think the Suns should have tweaked their roster at the trade deadline and so far his inability to add a player to help the injured depleted roster raises questions.

As a fan the silence by Jones to the media and fans leaves a lot to be desired.
 
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sinsay

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I know I am a long time Suns fan as well. With that said tanking also got them Ayton.
Earlier in the season, the last thing I wanted was another tanking season. Now I think it is their best bet to compete next year. I think Toppins skill set will make them competitive.
 

BC867

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At this time, there is more to it than tank or not tank.

In our last game, out of the clear sky, Monty played an
8-man rotation, with Ayton getting the most minutes
and being injured (again) during the game.

As I previously posted, fatiguing Deandre (which just
might lead to injuries) was totally unnecessary.

I support, of course, trying to establish a winning
culture. But a team out of the playoffs for a decade
is not the scenario for an 8-man rotation all game
long (even when Deandre went to the locker room).

In more ways than one (think about it), the Suns
are, and have been, a team without direction. Just
about every move has been a shot in the dark. No
matter who the Front Office, coaches or players are.
 

AzStevenCal

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And the question for me, do the Suns have all the ingredients now?

I feel good about the coaching for the most part. However, the ownership hasn't changed and there are questions about the players Jones added in free agency and how he may have misplayed the draft.

Also I think the Suns should have tweaked their roster at the trade deadline and so far his inability to add a player to help the injured depleted roster raises questions.

As a fan the silence by Jones to the media and fans leaves a lot to be desired.

Assuming you're talking about management, I have no idea. But there is quite a bit more evidence to suggest the answer is "no" than there is the other way around. Still, I find enough reason to hold onto at least a little bit of hope that it will turn the corner.

I think I'm in the distinct minority here but I have less concerns about Jones than I do about ownership OR coaching. I think Monty is a great person, I'm not sold on him as a Head Coach. I don't think he's the problem, I'm just not sure he's the solution.

I think we all agree that Sarver is a problem, the only difference being how much of a problem. I think Jones could have made some better choices but given how many needs we had, I could understand why he chose to try and fill the holes the way he did.

But it never crossed my mind that Jones would be able to bring in a player to help us when injuries took their toll. Good players usually go to good teams at that point of the season. At that point, I was just happy we didn't overpay to bring in someone given that we weren't about to find someone that could make much of a difference.

And while I also wish I knew more about what the front office was doing, I don't think there was anything to really tell us that would have changed our overall mood when things were turning sour due to the mounting injuries.
 

Mainstreet

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I know I am a long time Suns fan as well. With that said tanking also got them Ayton.
Earlier in the season, the last thing I wanted was another tanking season. Now I think it is their best bet to compete next year. I think Toppins skill set will make them competitive.

In the 2019 final standings the Suns finished tied for the second worst record in the league with Cleveland.

The inverse standings were the Knicks, Suns, Cavaliers, Bulls, Hawks, Wizards and Mavericks.

After the lottery the draft order was the Pelicans, Grizzlies, Knicks, Lakers, Cavaliers, Suns and Bulls.

It didn't help the Suns much by being bad.
 

Mainstreet

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Assuming you're talking about management, I have no idea. But there is quite a bit more evidence to suggest the answer is "no" than there is the other way around. Still, I find enough reason to hold onto at least a little bit of hope that it will turn the corner.

I think I'm in the distinct minority here but I have less concerns about Jones than I do about ownership OR coaching.
I think Monty is a great person, I'm not sold on him as a Head Coach. I don't think he's the problem, I'm just not sure he's the solution.

I think we all agree that Sarver is a problem, the only difference being how much of a problem. I think Jones could have made some better choices but given how many needs we had, I could understand why he chose to try and fill the holes the way he did.

But it never crossed my mind that Jones would be able to bring in a player to help us when injuries took their toll. Good players usually go to good teams at that point of the season. At that point, I was just happy we didn't overpay to bring in someone given that we weren't about to find someone that could make much of a difference.

And while I also wish I knew more about what the front office was doing, I don't think there was anything to really tell us that would have changed our overall mood when things were turning sour due to the mounting injuries.

The way I look at it, Suns fans have no control over Sarver as he is he owner.

This is Monty's first season as the head coach so we need to give him a fair chance.

However, I'm not sure Jones is the least of the Suns concerns after the 2019 free agency and draft.

I do think Oubre and Rubio were good additions so I give him credit for that. However, the Suns could have tweaked the roster at the trade deadline rather than doubling down on their "continuity" plan.
It was clear that a backup point guard and a role playing power forward would have helped this team. I doubt the Suns could have addressed both of these needs, but I think one was doable.

Even while we talk, players like Jordan Bell or Trey Burke could strengthen the team.
 

BC867

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I think we all agree that Sarver is a problem, the only difference being how much of a problem. I think Jones could have made some better choices but given how many needs we had, I could understand why he chose to try and fill the holes the way he did.
Based on the report that Sarver was shouting instructions from another room to his GM,
while he was on the phone with another team's GM (that's demeaning) . . .

Do you discount that Jones is the de-facto Assistant GM, while Sarver makes all of the
personnel decisions? Despite having no basketball credentials for it. The history we've
read suggests that is probably the case. Not the right thing to do. But the way it is.

He quoted right after the start of this season that he, the GM and Head Coach are a
"triangle". If that is not a proclamation that he micromanages all personnel, nothing is.

The Suns history and high turnover rates of GM's, Head Coaches and players don't
discount meddling by the Managing investor. As you said, Sarver is a problem.

There are no checks and balances. He reports to no one. Unless the Commissioner
of the NBA steps in.
 

leclerc

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I'd put Jalen les queue and Sheik into the rotation and let Carter be the first guard off the bench. Increase bench minutes when they're playing well. Don't play any player more than 30 minutes. We need experience not injuries.
 

SunnyBaller

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I'd put Jalen les queue and Sheik into the rotation and let Carter be the first guard off the bench. Increase bench minutes when they're playing well. Don't play any player more than 30 minutes. We need experience not injuries.
That'd be the smart plan, however I assume we will play booker a minimum of 40 a game and see if we can't run him into the ground
 
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