Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

Hoop Head

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Should have waived Wainwright. Much more potential in Washington and Saban Lee is playing now. We could have kept both and let Ish go. Ish has past his expiration date and he is who he is. He's not going to improve and he's not going to play a role as a rotation player, even with the injuries.

James Jones needs to fix this Crowder issue and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all though. Having an open roster spot and a wasted spot, we shouldn't be waiving anyone.
 
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Mainstreet

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Per Adrian Wojnarowski, Devin Booker could return as early as Tuesday against Brooklyn.

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AzStevenCal

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Should have waived Wainwright. Much more potential in Washington and Saban Lee is playing now. We could have kept both and let Ish go. Ish has past his expiration date and he is who he is. He's not going to improve and he's not going to play a role as a rotation player, even with the injuries.

James Jones needs to fix this Crowder issue and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all though. Having an open roster spot and a wasted spot, we shouldn't be waiving anyone.
The biggest fix we could make would be to fix the Crowder situation to back up Cam J. Convince him he'll still get key minutes and it will likely extend his career. Convince him he's wanted. CamJ is too good to move back to the bench but he's too undependable to get by without a starter quality player behind him. And trading for someone like Collins might give us a slight upgrade (doubtful, but might) but would likely cost us Cam.
 

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Monty has game plan adjustment issues, but he gave all the bench players sufficient chances to show their talent. Washington is a better shooter, but not much of a PG. Teammates are just decors for him on the court. Saben is more athletic, better defender, can better create space both for him and others with his dribbles and drives. For the current team need, the decision is right.
 
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Mainstreet

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This is the last thing I wanted to hear, that there were financial implications in waiving Duane Washington Jr.

We are talking a low salaried player. Washington Jr. only earned $508,891.



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Superbone

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The biggest fix we could make would be to fix the Crowder situation to back up Cam J. Convince him he'll still get key minutes and it will likely extend his career. Convince him he's wanted. CamJ is too good to move back to the bench but he's too undependable to get by without a starter quality player behind him. And trading for someone like Collins might give us a slight upgrade (doubtful, but might) but would likely cost us Cam.
I think that bridge has been burned.
 
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Mainstreet

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The biggest fix we could make would be to fix the Crowder situation to back up Cam J. Convince him he'll still get key minutes and it will likely extend his career. Convince him he's wanted. CamJ is too good to move back to the bench but he's too undependable to get by without a starter quality player behind him. And trading for someone like Collins might give us a slight upgrade (doubtful, but might) but would likely cost us Cam.

I think something happened with Jae Crowder and the Suns powers that be. Maybe some hurt feelings or a clash that can't be mended.

Otherwise, I agree about bringing Crowder back.
 

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Good shooters are hard to come by. We took our chance with Shamet, not going as well for 10M.
We gave Washington a look and he’s just not consistent, he was given all the opportunity he’s had, given due to injuries. He did win us one game where he went nuts.

Lack of pg skills and he’s undersized, the defense just isn’t there. He was getting killed nightly in penetration (that’s what she said).

Would I trust him during crunch time, no. Would I trust him in the playoffs, no.

He’s a developing Eddie House. Best of luck to him.

Saben could be a guy to take care of the ball in the last minute of an expiring quarter except the 4th of course. He’s proven to be more consistent than Washington in the pg area and attacks okay for a guy his size. He definitely has more on the ball pressure than Washington. So i saw it as a no brainer.

Edit: Monty saying Financial Implications, some took it as Suns being cheap. Just means that we have to keep him but suns are keeping that spot open for buyouts.
 
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He has an elite skill - shooting/scoring. He will IMO easily become at least a Clarkson type player in the future.

Saban Lee has no elite skills that I can identify - in fact I would say he seems below average across the board
Wow. That is... interesting.
 

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This is the last thing I wanted to hear, that there were financial implications in waiving Duane Washington Jr.

We are talking a low salaried player. Washington Jr. only earned $508,891.



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Considering he didn't have much time left with the 1st team and we probably don't have a lot of options when it comes to the G-League, and we wanted to keep Lee, of course there were salary implications. That's a no-brainer. It's called a business for a reason.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think that bridge has been burned.
Odds are you're correct. But IMO it's the single biggest thing we can do to improve our chances and it would be foolhardy to just give up on it. If it really is a clash between Monty and Jae as has been reported (rumored?), then Monty needs to swallow his pride. I'm holding out a little bit of hope that the owner steps in patches it up. Pay Jae and show him some love, and I believe he'll come around. I don't know what it would take with Monty though.
 
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Mainstreet

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I don't believe you pay Jae Crowder. Maybe it's something that can be discussed in the off season if he plays well.
 

AzStevenCal

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I don't believe you pay Jae Crowder. Maybe it's something that can be discussed in the off season if he plays well.
Why not? If it really was Monty pushing him out over a personality clash as reported, it would explain why JJ felt compelled to continue to pay him. And it puts the onus for repair and reconciliation at Monty's doorstep.
 
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Mainstreet

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Why not? If it really was Monty pushing him out over a personality clash as reported, it would explain why JJ felt compelled to continue to pay him. And it puts the onus for repair and reconciliation at Monty's doorstep.

Jae Crowder is being paid for this season. I see no reason the Suns are obligated to give him a future contract.
 
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Mainstreet

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To Steve's point, they'd probably have to pay him for future seasons if he continued to play for us in those future seasons. :p

Maybe I'm missing the point but I don't think Jae Crowder proved he deserved an extension based on his play last season.
 

AzStevenCal

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To Steve's point, they'd probably have to pay him for future seasons if he continued to play for us in those future seasons. :p
Yeah, I think he's the perfect backup to Cam for this year and a few years to follow so I'd like him under contract. If the rumors prove to be wrong and this was all a tantrum on Jae's part because he was being moved to the bench, then obviously I'd be in favor of moving him. But the front office knows the truth and the fact they chose to continue to pay him to stay home suggests it might not all be his fault.
 
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Mainstreet

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Yeah, I think he's the perfect backup to Cam for this year and a few years to follow so I'd like him under contract. If the rumors prove to be wrong and this was all a tantrum on Jae's part because he was being moved to the bench, then obviously I'd be in favor of moving him. But the front office knows the truth and the fact they chose to continue to pay him to stay home suggests it might not all be his fault.

I'm curious. How much money would you pay Jae Crowder on an extension and for how many years?
 

AzStevenCal

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Maybe I'm missing the point but I don't think Jae Crowder proved he deserved an extension based on his play last season.
Oh, you never made this point so I didn't realize where you were going. If you simply don't want him because you don't believe he's worth his money, that's different. Personally, I think he was a big part of our record last year and according to Perkins he was key to keeping the Ayton/Monty equation from getting out of hand.
 
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Mainstreet

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Oh, you never made this point so I didn't realize where you were going. If you simply don't want him because you don't believe he's worth his money, that's different. Personally, I think he was a big part of our record last year and according to Perkins he was key to keeping the Ayton/Monty equation from getting out of hand.

You said "Yeah, I think he's the perfect backup to Cam for this year and a few years to follow so I'd like him under contract." So would you have given him an extension or not?
 

AzStevenCal

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I'm curious. How much money would you pay Jae Crowder on an extension and for how many years?
Well, PJ just got a 3 year deal for 33 million with a 3rd year player option and Tucker is 6 years older than Jae. For both players, counting stats don't tell the whole story but Crowder has him beat there and is a better leader IMO. So I'd start there. Something like 4/44 with a 4th year option for team and player. And a 3rd year team option if we can get it.
 
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Mainstreet

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Well, PJ just got a 3 year deal for 33 million with a 3rd year player option and PJ is 6 years older than Jae. For both players, counting stats don't tell the whole story but Crowder has him beat there and is a better leader IMO. So I'd start there. Something like 4/44 with a 4th year option for team and player. And a 3rd year team option if we can get it.

This is a fun discussion. Maybe we can discuss it after the game or tomorrow.
 

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Washington has a higher ceiling than Lee but a lower floor and lower odds of hitting it. Lee looks like he's not far from becoming a legit NBA level backup PG. I'm not saying he will be one but he has a much better shot of becoming one, and soon, while Washington is still at least or year or two away from providing consistent bench minutes as a microwave of sorts.


If we don't make another move soon or Washington signs elsewhere and starts showing flashes then that's another hit on JJ. I'm really starting to question whether he's cut out for his position. He hasn't done anything in over a year that says he is.
 

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Just seen online Suns are 3-5 on ESPN games with our losses by a combined 116 points

Holy hell
 
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Mainstreet

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Well, PJ just got a 3 year deal for 33 million with a 3rd year player option and Tucker is 6 years older than Jae. For both players, counting stats don't tell the whole story but Crowder has him beat there and is a better leader IMO. So I'd start there. Something like 4/44 with a 4th year option for team and player. And a 3rd year team option if we can get it.

Going back to the Jae Crowder discussion we had last night, I saw no reason to give him an extension based on his play last season. He shot .399 from the field. Ideally, it would have liked to have been nice to keep Jae if he proved himself worthy this season but it didn't happen for whatever reason. Personally, I think the Suns need to get stronger at power forward, a player that can play inside as well as outside.
 
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