Suns @ Timberwolves Saturday game thread 11-23-19

[TJ]

That's ridiculous. Ayton should be better than Towns by the end of his first contract.

That, and imagine also dumping two more first-round picks? Oy vey...

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the price is a little too high but Towns is being grossly underrated on this board IMO. We hope Ayton passes him by and that may well happen but Kat is much better right now. And he just turned 24 so it's not like we're trading youth for an old guy. But straight up, Tyler + Ayton for Kat? I'd do that in a heartbeat.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Ugly win...but not as ugly as those T-wolves jerseys. What is up with the Seahawk neon green

 

[1Sun]

I never was a big fan of Saric and after watching him closely in 10+ games, he seems much more of a good backup than a solid starter.

He is a professional, knows the basics of rebounding and positional defense, can score on smaller players in the paint if there is a mismatch, can hit the open 3 but that's it. His lack of footspeed and especially elevation makes him a liability as a starter.

This sounds familiar...

 

[BC867]

Kevin Ray does NFL games for Westwood One.

Thank you for the explanation. Interesting arrangement! Football and basketball at the same time.

I can see where KRay's ongoing rambling would fit football where a play is run, then they walk
back to their positions, then another play is run. And walk back. And so on.

Versus basketball where the action is continuous. One play after another. Seconds, not minutes
to ramble, then mention what just happened.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thank you for the explanation. Interesting arrangement! Football and basketball at the same time.

I can see where KRay's ongoing rambling would fit football where a play is run, then they walk
back to their positions, then another play is run. And walk back. And so on.

Versus basketball where the action is continuous. One play after another. Seconds, not minutes
to ramble, then mention what just happened.

The best thing about Kevin Ray is that he is NOT Marv Albert's brother. And frankly, mediocre though he is, the fact he isn't Steve Albert is enough for me.

 

[SirStefan32]

That was an ugly game, but I'll take it. Book and Oubre had great games, and just about everyone else contributed something.

 

[GatorAZ]

The best thing about Kevin Ray is that he is NOT Marv Albert's brother. And frankly, mediocre though he is, the fact he isn't Steve Albert is enough for me.

Even though we’ve had some duds I think we’ve been spoiled for the most part whenever I hear another team’s tv crew. Who was the color guy with Gary Bender before Majerle?

 

[95pro]

Cam missed a lot shots tonight. They covered him well. The ones he missed were not set shots.

Wolves missed a ton of shots and free throws to give us game, as well opportunities to feed towns while he has mismatches.

 

[Phrazbit]

Great bounce back game. The hustle and D was back to previous levels and Booker did what we'd been hoping and found a great balance between ball movement and taking the game over when no one else has it going.

 

[hcsilla]

T-Wolves get:Tyler Johnson, Ayton and 2 #1s

Phoenix gets: KAT

It would take more to get Towns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It would take more to get Towns.

I'd offer Tyler, Kaminsky, Okobo or Carter plus 2 unprotected firsts and 3 unprotected pick swaps. That's still not enough but I just can't see going higher. Towns is playing great this season but who knows how long his new found dedication to the game will actually last?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even though we’ve had some duds I think we’ve been spoiled for the most part whenever I hear another team’s tv crew. Who was the color guy with Gary Bender before Majerle?

I don't remember for sure - maybe Scott Williams?

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't remember for sure - maybe Scott Williams?

Forgot about his stint but he was post Majerle.

 

[hcsilla]

Ayton should be better than Towns by the end of his first contract.

It is not out of question that Ayton will, but right now he is years away from Towns in offense. Besides Ayton's value right now is all-time low.

 

[Hoop Head]

Didn't see this posted, apparently the Wolves organization is all class. They had this sign set up in the Suns locker room.

It's a small gesture but one that I imagine will help them in the future when they're trying to get free agents or resign their current guys.

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[hcsilla]

I think the price is a little too high but Towns is being grossly underrated on this board IMO. We hope Ayton passes him by and that may well happen but Kat is much better right now. And he just turned 24 so it's not like we're trading youth for an old guy.

Agreed.

But straight up, Tyler + Ayton for Kat? I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Of course you would, but I can not see the Wolves accepting a proposal like this.

That would remind me of the Leonard-trade, but in that case not only the Spurs were forced to trade him but the danger of Leonard leaving the buyer's team in one year was also alive.

Towns is under contract for four more years, so I would expect MIN to wait until offers like the one NOP got for Davis would appear.

If Towns was on the table, I'm afraid that MIN would demand Johnson, Ayton, Bridges, Jerome (if he shows significant potential) + picks.

 

[hcsilla]

I'd offer Tyler, Kaminsky, Okobo or Carter plus 2 unprotected firsts and 3 unprotected pick swaps. That's still not enough but I just can't see going higher. Towns is playing great this season but who knows how long his new found dedication to the game will actually last?

The question stands, but your above offer is a very poor one from Wolves' point of view.

If you add Towns to this team (and you keep Ayton as well), Suns picks' won't be higher than #20 which represent a quite low value.

So basically they trade Towns for Okobo, cap relief and late 1st rounders which is insultingly low return even if you are Isiah Thomas, Chris Wallace or Billy King.

 

[pokerface]

I think the price is a little too high but Towns is being grossly underrated on this board IMO. We hope Ayton passes him by and that may well happen but Kat is much better right now. And he just turned 24 so it's not like we're trading youth for an old guy. But straight up, Tyler + Ayton for Kat? I'd do that in a heartbeat.

True but we'd trading a rookie contract for a max contract. With Booker making max i dont know how the team would be structured. Dont know if Sarver would go over the salary cap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The question stands, but your above offer is a very poor one from Wolves' point of view.

If you add Towns to this team (and you keep Ayton as well), Suns picks' won't be higher than #20 which represent a quite low value.

So basically they trade Towns for Okobo, cap relief and late 1st rounders which is insultingly low return even if you are Isiah Thomas, Chris Wallace or Billy King.

Yeah, I can't disagree with your reasoning but I just can't see giving away even more except perhaps Bridges. This year's version of KAT is easily worth more but we'd be gambling he won't revert to form. But unless Minnesota fears the same thing, he won't be on the market anyway. He really has been playing at an MVP level this season.

 

[Hoop Head]

True but we'd trading a rookie contract for a max contract. With Booker making max i dont know how the team would be structured. Dont know if Sarver would go over the salary cap.

2 guys making the max should be expected in today's NBA. Having KAT and Booker on the same schedule as far as when their deals expire might even be preferable to a team because it allows for a lot of flexibility if they decide to change course for any reason. That's half the cap that is available. Of course the goal is to keep them long term and I think that's possible if those 2 are able to be the primary pieces of a title team.

No one else could be maxed out but no else on the Suns would be worth the max since Ayton would need to be dealt in a deal for KAT. Oubre is a good player and would make a quality 3rd "star" of sorts but he's not a max player. Bridges isn't a max guy, or a big money player either. Rubio's deal is hefty right now but it expires before KAT and Booker's deals do. The rest of the roster is comprised with low salaried players that could be replaced if need be.

Sarver has paid big money in the past. Marion and Stat were both on max deals here and Nash had a substantial contract as well. If the team is a contender then I can see Sarver opening his checkbook. That would require competing though, not the hope or potential to be there in a couple of years.

Booker and KAT expiring at the same time could really work in the teams favor as well because they could elect to take a slightly smaller deal to make room for someone else, like Kyrie and KD did in Brooklyn so they could bring in DeAndre Jordan. Miami's big 3 took less than max money also to allow the team to build around them.

 

[Western Font]

Just to play along, when does this trade happen? Now, deadline, offseason?

Right now Wiggins appears to be turning it around and KAT is playing his best. Does Minnesota really want to go back to waiting for a #1 pick to develop?

But again, that’s right now. Ayton will have the opportunity to change minds starting next month.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just to play along, when does this trade happen? Now, deadline, offseason?

Right now Wiggins appears to be turning it around and KAT is playing his best. Does Minnesota really want to go back to waiting for a #1 pick to develop?

But again, that’s right now. Ayton will have the opportunity to change minds starting next month.

It's all hypothetical, like if the Wolves stumble and feel like they are going nowhere with Towns or he reaches the point where he wants out.

I'm highly doubtful it happens but it's always fun to talk about these things. Fans in Minnesota are probably talking about trading for Booker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just to play along, when does this trade happen? Now, deadline, offseason?

Right now Wiggins appears to be turning it around and KAT is playing his best. Does Minnesota really want to go back to waiting for a #1 pick to develop?

But again, that’s right now. Ayton will have the opportunity to change minds starting next month.

Well, let's see, Minnesota would have to fall off a cliff with at least some of the blame aimed at Kat. Kat would have to demand a trade which would bring close to 30 suitors calling. And then they'd have to sift through all the offers before agreeing that ours was the best. Regrettably, I don't see any of those happening.

 

[Hoop Head]

If it wasn't for Ayton's suspension, I think the Suns could make the most attractive package for KAT. What team could, or would, offer something better than Ayton and a pick? Salary relief is a given since the money needs to match up but they shed around $17 million from their cap by replacing KAT with Ayton and there would be less pressure on their young coach to win now. With Teague expiring this summer, they could have a lot of money to rebuild around Ayton, if they did do a deal with us.

Because of the suspension though, Ayton's value is as low as it's been. It's not an issue of repeating since it was a diuretic but he is sort of tainted now. A swap for Towns might not have cost must more than the players and matching salary but surely now it would cost a 1st, maybe two of them. That's if there was a hurry to get things done this season. If we let Ayton show that he's not a problem and returns to form for the final 55 games then it's a different conversation this offseason.


I remember this trade was floated before Ayton was picked because Towns wasn't sure about signing a max deal there, Minnesota was a little hesitant to commit another max after Wiggins burned them, and Butler was causing problems. IIRC only 1/3 or even less of the posters here were in favor of an Ayton for Towns swap at that time but I think it would be the exact opposite now, with maybe a 1/3 being against it.