OP
OP
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
8
Suns @ Rockets
- Thread starter SirStefan32
- Start date
Chaplin
Better off silent
I don't know if I like seeing Bo Outlaw of all people getting pissed off.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Back to 12. 
Chaz
observationist
WOW what a block
JS22
Say Vandelay!
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
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- 5,791
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well, 8 points with 5:11 left..
edit: make that 11
edit: make that 11
Chaplin
Better off silent
Down by 6 with :40 left. A 3 would be good, but considering we're only 1-10 from that range...
JS22
Say Vandelay!
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
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- 211
Yao will win rookie of the year.
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
too little too late
why can't the suns come out with that 3rd quarter intensity at the beggining of the game?
why can't the suns come out with that 3rd quarter intensity at the beggining of the game?
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
I have to say, the way he played tonight I am a believer. The compsure in the 4th was amazing.
Chaplin
Better off silent
True, he's a rookie to the NBA game being that this is his first year, but he's not a rookie when it comes to basketball. He's played "professionally" for years and has much more experience than Amare.
Because the NBA is a showman's business, Yao might win it, but Amare deserves it more. Homerism, maybe, but when a high schooler with just 2 years of basketball experience has the kind of impact he has, that is ROY material to me.
Because the NBA is a showman's business, Yao might win it, but Amare deserves it more. Homerism, maybe, but when a high schooler with just 2 years of basketball experience has the kind of impact he has, that is ROY material to me.
elindholm
edited for content
I wouldn't hold Yao's pro experience against him, because there isn't the organized college system in China that there is in the U.S. Yao is only 22, which is the same age as a graduating college senior. He isn't like Ichiro Suzuki, who really was a veteran when he won "Rookie of the Year."
Even if Stoudemire turns out to be "only" the second-best rookie this year, I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of. Lots of people, including me, thought that he wouldn't contribute much of anything this year. The Suns have done very well with him, and they'll reap the benefits for many years.
Even if Stoudemire turns out to be "only" the second-best rookie this year, I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of. Lots of people, including me, thought that he wouldn't contribute much of anything this year. The Suns have done very well with him, and they'll reap the benefits for many years.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
I was actually going to say something about that chap. I personally think that anyone who has played professionally should not qualify for ROY. Maybe make a secondary award if they wanted, but I do not think it is fair. It is more of just changing companies then just getting into the field. Yao's experience is a huge plus for him. That is why he acted like he did in the 4th.
The reason why I did not mention it however, was that the current award is given to the rookie in the NBA that has the best year / impact on his team. I think that while both players have had equally impressive years, the discipline and experience from yao lets him impact his team more consistantly.
The reason why I did not mention it however, was that the current award is given to the rookie in the NBA that has the best year / impact on his team. I think that while both players have had equally impressive years, the discipline and experience from yao lets him impact his team more consistantly.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
thats why i suggested 2 awards. Instead of a general ROY, there could be a ROY for non prof. athletes and a ROY for entering prof. athletes to the NBA. While it probably wont happen, it would be nice to see something that gave a shot to both pre prof and entering prof athletes. With the increasing influx of euro prospects, and other people that have played prof, it would be possible in years to come. I personally feel that ROY should not go to a player who has a lot of experience in both national and in international leagues. That just isn't a rookie to me.
However, I also said that with the current structure, it is very hard to argue Yao as a leading canidate, especially after the performance we all watched tonight.
However, I also said that with the current structure, it is very hard to argue Yao as a leading canidate, especially after the performance we all watched tonight.
OP
OP
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
That's riddicilous. A rookie is a rookie regardless of how much experience outside the NBA they have. Some go to college, some play in national leagues, some come out of high school. What they have in common is that they are rookies in the NBA.
Amare and Yao are two very special cases. Amare is a high school kid who has two years of basketball experience. Yao played basketball in China, but he missed the training camp, he had to adjust to a new country, new culture, new language. Both of them have overcome special circumstances. Both of them are big reasons why their respective teams are doing well. I think they should be co- ROY, but if I had to choose one objectively, I would have to go with Yao.
Amare and Yao are two very special cases. Amare is a high school kid who has two years of basketball experience. Yao played basketball in China, but he missed the training camp, he had to adjust to a new country, new culture, new language. Both of them have overcome special circumstances. Both of them are big reasons why their respective teams are doing well. I think they should be co- ROY, but if I had to choose one objectively, I would have to go with Yao.
I couldn't watch the game last night - sounds like I would have been frustrated. Seems like when I DON't watch, the Suns loose.
I have a buddy that every time he watches a game, the Suns loose - sometime his wife locks him in the closet when they play Maybe he was out last night
I have a buddy that every time he watches a game, the Suns loose - sometime his wife locks him in the closet when they play
Maybe he was out last night
Chaplin
Better off silent
Yes, but do you know why he missed training camp?
Amare Stoudemire made the choice not to attend college. He could have come into Memphis for four years which would have given him competition every bit as good as what Yao Ming saw in China.
I think it should stay the way it is, and barring some drastic change in the last 20 games of the season Yao Ming will probably win the ROY.
Joe Mama
I think it should stay the way it is, and barring some drastic change in the last 20 games of the season Yao Ming will probably win the ROY.
Joe Mama
Chaplin
Better off silent
And... ?? I'm wondering what your point is... sorry, Joe...
His choice to not attend college is not the issue. Amare Stoudemire played only 2 years of high school basketball--and those 2 years he was barely coached. His statistics are nearly identical to Yao Ming, who, regardless of his age, played "professionally" in China. Perhaps it is no better than college basketball over there, but the fact is, he is more experienced than Amare by a HUGE amount.
Yao Ming came into the league with experience playing in China, as well as playing internationally. I'm not saying he's not an NBA rookie, he clearly is, my arguement is about experience.
elindholm
edited for content
I think Joe Mama's point is that, if you hold experience against a player, then almost no one can win Rookie of the Year. Gasol couldn't, because he played professionally in Europe. Miller, Francis, and Brand couldn't, because they had extensive college careers. Even LeBron James wouldn't be eligible, because his high school experience will have been more than Stoudemire had.
Basically, Chaplin, it sounds like you want to change the award to "Prospect of the Year." That would be a cool award, and Stoudemire would surely win it, but it's different from the award we have now.
Basically, Chaplin, it sounds like you want to change the award to "Prospect of the Year." That would be a cool award, and Stoudemire would surely win it, but it's different from the award we have now.
Chaplin
Better off silent
No. You are wrong.
I'm not talking about a deliberate, across-the-board, eliminating of experienced players from ROY competition.
What I AM talking about is the this year ONLY--which is between 2 guys--Yao Ming and Amare Stoudemire. I think Amare deserves rookie of the year more because Yao Ming has more pro experience overseas. Now, if it was between Yao and Caron Butler, and Amare wasn't even in the game, then I'd go with Yao.
You guys are making my points into generalized comments about the award itself, and that's not my point at all. I'm looking at Yao vs. Amare and the reasons for one getting the award over the other. This has nothing to do with Pau Gasol or other guys that had professional experience.
Pro experience is great for Yao--but would he be as good if he only was 20 years old and had only 2 years of basketball experience against far inferior competition with little or no coaching?
I'm not talking about a deliberate, across-the-board, eliminating of experienced players from ROY competition.
What I AM talking about is the this year ONLY--which is between 2 guys--Yao Ming and Amare Stoudemire. I think Amare deserves rookie of the year more because Yao Ming has more pro experience overseas. Now, if it was between Yao and Caron Butler, and Amare wasn't even in the game, then I'd go with Yao.
You guys are making my points into generalized comments about the award itself, and that's not my point at all. I'm looking at Yao vs. Amare and the reasons for one getting the award over the other. This has nothing to do with Pau Gasol or other guys that had professional experience.
Pro experience is great for Yao--but would he be as good if he only was 20 years old and had only 2 years of basketball experience against far inferior competition with little or no coaching?
OP
OP
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
That's a good question Chap, but it's irrelevant. The question is Who is a better player and who has a bigger impact right now.
It's not about who had more experience, who has more talent, who will be a better player eventually. I think you are just making this more complicated than it is. Who is the best rookie right now? Well, by a hair, it's Yao. Sure, he had more experience, more quality coaching, more of everything, but that is irrelevant.
Stefan
I agree ROY is for the one who plays the best individually and makes his team better. I would have to say Yao is leading the polls, but if PHX makes the playoffs and Houston is out then I think we will have Co-ROY or Amare will win it. If Houston is in and PHX is out Yao will win ROY. ROY does not have anything to do with experience. Remember everyone used to come into the NBA with Experience. Now we come to expect no experience and only potential. That is what is wrong with the NBA(From other Tread).
Chaplin
Better off silent
Why is it irrelevant? If that's the case, then it shouldn't matter if there is a kid from Junior High in the NBA, right? It's very relevant.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I totally disagree.
