Suns @ Pelicans Monday game thread 4-1-2024

Phrazbit

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I've been thrilled, I've been excited, I've been nervous, I've been apathetic, I've been defeated when it occurs to me the Suns are about to play... but this season is the first time I've been nauseated.
 

Phrazbit

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I've been thrilled, I've been excited, I've been nervous, I've been apathetic, I've been defeated when it occurs to me the Suns are about to play... but this season is the first time I've been nauseated.

Ehh, right after posting I reread this and really thought about the bar I was setting... the 2012/13 season was more more stomach churning. I hate-watched that team... this isn't quite that bad. But it's damn near close.
 

AzStevenCal

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They had an option on their roster, Cam Payne. Sending him to San Antonio in a salary dump was stupid. He'd proven his worth here continually. The Suns had a winning record with him as the starting PG. Vogel seemed set on this no PG offense that has been nothing other than a turnover machine. I can understand starting the guys who have but the 2nd unit needed a PG to steady the ship.
We probably should have kept him but that's because we had so few options for us to cover that position but not because he'd "proven his worth here continually". He actually proved the opposite AFAIC and I'm surprised there are so many posters here that recall his time with the Suns differently. He was like Ayton - showed great occasionally but let us down far more often than not.

My guess, based on his time with the Suns, if we'd kept Payne he would have missed 20 games, stunk it up for 30 games, played well in 10 games and decently in the other 12 or so. That's noticably better than any of his replacements have looked so yeah, we'd be better off with CamP. I think he would have made a difference in a couple of our 4th quarter collapses but I don't think any of us would be feeling confident about this roster even if we'd kept Payne.
 

AzStevenCal

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I've been thrilled, I've been excited, I've been nervous, I've been apathetic, I've been defeated when it occurs to me the Suns are about to play... but this season is the first time I've been nauseated.
I was miserable for awhile after the KD trade. I can't imagine anything more nauseating than that moment but somewhere along the way I've just become numb by/to the decisions they've made. I still watch the games with a hopeful eye but it's impossible to believe in this squad which is not a good feeling as the postseason approaches.
 
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Mainstreet

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We probably should have kept him but that's because we had so few options for us to cover that position but not because he'd "proven his worth here continually". He actually proved the opposite AFAIC and I'm surprised there are so many posters here that recall his time with the Suns differently. He was like Ayton - showed great occasionally but let us down far more often than not.

My guess, based on his time with the Suns, if we'd kept Payne he would have missed 20 games, stunk it up for 30 games, played well in 10 games and decently in the other 12 or so. That's noticably better than any of his replacements have looked so yeah, we'd be better off with CamP. I think he would have made a difference in a couple of our 4th quarter collapses but I don't think any of us would be feeling confident about this roster even if we'd kept Payne.

Looking at the larger picture, if the Suns were not going to keep Cam Payne, they minimally should have replaced him with a rotation point guard. Instead, the Suns remained in denial about the need.
 

Covert Rain

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Looking at the larger picture, if the Suns were not going to keep Cam Payne, they minimally should have replaced him with a rotation point guard. Instead, the Suns remained in denial about the need.
I think it was time for Cam to go but I was beating this drum with you from day 1. We should have picked up a PG that could be in the rotation.
 

Hoop Head

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We probably should have kept him but that's because we had so few options for us to cover that position but not because he'd "proven his worth here continually". He actually proved the opposite AFAIC and I'm surprised there are so many posters here that recall his time with the Suns differently. He was like Ayton - showed great occasionally but let us down far more often than not.

My guess, based on his time with the Suns, if we'd kept Payne he would have missed 20 games, stunk it up for 30 games, played well in 10 games and decently in the other 12 or so. That's noticably better than any of his replacements have looked so yeah, we'd be better off with CamP. I think he would have made a difference in a couple of our 4th quarter collapses but I don't think any of us would be feeling confident about this roster even if we'd kept Payne.

When I say " proven his worth" I mean earned his contract. He was making $6 million on an expiring deal as a backup PG who was capable of leading us to wins in the postseason when filling in as starter. Maybe he didn't live up to some expectations but he was making less than 20% of what Ayton was, for example, and at best was a 6th man here. We gave up on him for no real reason other than Vogel wanted a no PG roster. Why? He's an idiot. He seems deadset on proving he can win without one. JJ sending Payne off to San Antonio with a 2nd round pick was dumb. It reminded me of waiving Tyson Chandler a few years back. There was zero reason to rush that move and at the worst we could find a similar deal around the deadline.
 

AzStevenCal

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Not keeping Payne was a huge mistake
Not keeping Payne was stupid but I think "huge mistake" is a huge overstatement. I was okay with moving on from him and still am but like many of us here, I thought they'd have a better plan for the position than "hey, let's move the best shooting guard in the game to the starting PG spot".

We've been crying for PG help for years, in large part because CamP simply wasn't consistently reliable but also because, no matter the player or the coach, we don't seem able or willing to develop any of the many backup PG's that have gone through our organization since Nash was being backed up by Leandro.
 

AzStevenCal

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When I say " proven his worth" I mean earned his contract. He was making $6 million on an expiring deal as a backup PG who was capable of leading us to wins in the postseason when filling in as starter. Maybe he didn't live up to some expectations but he was making less than 20% of what Ayton was, for example, and at best was a 6th man here. We gave up on him for no real reason other than Vogel wanted a no PG roster. Why? He's an idiot. He seems deadset on proving he can win without one. JJ sending Payne off to San Antonio with a 2nd round pick was dumb. It reminded me of waiving Tyson Chandler a few years back. There was zero reason to rush that move and at the worst we could find a similar deal around the deadline.
Fair enough. Unlike DA, Cam was never overpaid here and unlike Ayton, Payne's shortcoming's were never from a lack of effort. I think Cam is a very good emergency PG, I just don't think you can count on him as the starter or the first PG off the bench. But without another move to follow, simply giving Cam up was shortsighted by whoever made that call.
 

Cheesebeef

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I’m just surprised so many people still believed in “the other shoe’s got to drop here” back when we dealt Payne for nothing. When they made that move, I didn’t understand it specifically because I didn’t expect a follow up to get another okay backup PG.

For years, it seems like JJ has ignored the same issues, with a multitude of fans still waiting for proverbial shoes to drop to address sone obvious needs that don’t seem needed by JJ during the course of his time here.
 

BirdGangThing

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beal stays in after the break - all starters still in the game 5 minutes left in the first
 

CardNots

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What’s wrong with Booker? Doesn’t even look like the same player…

Wasn’t that long ago there was a huge discussion for Book being the best player in Suns history.

For those banging on KD, it’s evident he carries this team.
 

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