Suns Off-season Thread

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I was just thinking about how Kyrie Irving spit on his contract by refusing to play, and I noticed: considering that Irving probably already had lots of money and was set for life, there was a simple way to both do what he wanted and respect the contract he signed his name to: retire. Not easy for a player, but simple and obvious.

I used to think Irving was brave (if ignorant), because he was willing to give his opinion even though he had to have known people would laugh at him. I was wrong. Retiring rather than taking a vaccine he didn't want would have been considerably braver than publicly holding to an ignorant opinion. He didn't have that in him.

The Lakers are welcome to this guy.

You make a lot of assumptions about players character.

I'm not saying Kyrie is a good guy, I think he's a headcase, but he didn't exactly "spit on his contract". He was and is willing to play, he just asked for a trade. He didn't play a lot last year because he refused to get vaccinated and the Nets refused to play hard ball by refusing to pay him. They ended up using him on road games, which was their choice.
 

Mainstreet

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Counting restricted free agents and Jock Landale, the Suns have 15 players on their roster. Of course this is subject to change.

Devin Booker
Chris Paul
Mikal Bridges
Deandre Ayton (RFA)
Dario Saric
Jae Crowder
Cam Payne
Cam Johnson
Landry Shamet
Torrey Craig
Bismack Biyombo
Damian Lee
Josh Okogie
Ish Wainright (RFA)
Jock Landale (not official)
 

Mainstreet

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Bismack Biyombo will be making the veteran minimum of $2.9 million for 1 year. It's still a nice chunk of change.

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Mainstreet

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Josh Okogie will make $1.97 million on a 1 year contract. Damian Lee will be paid $2.13 million for 1 year as well.
 

angelofthesouth

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The current Suns group might have won a championship last year, and might have at least reached the WCF this year had Chris Paul not gotten sick. (Nobody says so far that I'm mistaken to find that a valid excuse.) It might still win one with some mere modifications. Sad that the demands of owning an NBA team in 2022 don't allow more patience than that, one year after it reached the finals for the first time in nearly thirty years.
 

Covert Rain

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The current Suns group might have won a championship last year, and might have at least reached the WCF this year had Chris Paul not gotten sick. (Nobody says so far that I'm mistaken to find that a valid excuse.) It might still win one with some mere modifications. Sad that the demands of owning an NBA team in 2022 don't allow more patience than that, one year after it reached the finals for the first time in nearly thirty years.
Let me be the first. Lot's of guys play sick or injured. The Suns problems were much bigger than CP3. The Suns problems started BEFORE the end of the season. They didn't look like the same team after their last 9 game win streak. They were highly inconsistent even during the previous playoff series. Guys who normally produces of the bench fell off a cliff. Cam Payne had not put up back to back double digit games since Mid-march. Cam J didn't look the same post injury. Monty shortened the very bench that helped him get the best record. There is a laundry list of stuff that didn't look right about the Suns.

I do not believe that a healthy CP3 makes much of a difference and that would indicate the playoff failure was all on CP3. It wasn't by a long shot IMO.
 

Chaplin

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Let me be the first. Lot's of guys play sick or injured. The Suns problems were much bigger than CP3. The Suns problems started BEFORE the end of the season. They didn't look like the same team after their last 9 game win streak. They were highly inconsistent even during the previous playoff series. Guys who normally produces of the bench fell off a cliff. Cam Payne had not put up back to back double digit games since Mid-march. Cam J didn't look the same post injury. Monty shortened the very bench that helped him get the best record. There is a laundry list of stuff that didn't look right about the Suns.

I do not believe that a healthy CP3 makes much of a difference and that would indicate the playoff failure was all on CP3. It wasn't by a long shot IMO.
There were two things that started the downslide, and IMO they were pretty apparent. One was securing the 1 seed, the other was Chris Paul's 37th birthday. Everything went haywire after those two things.
 

angelofthesouth

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Lot's of guys play sick or injured.
Yeah, well, I can say only that I don't demand Chris Paul to have the equivalent of the Michael Jordan Flu Game. Besides that Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan, he was younger than Chris Paul. And that was before I understood that Chris Paul was already breaking down and can't play much on-ball defense.
 

angelofthesouth

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There were two things that started the downslide, and IMO they were pretty apparent. One was securing the 1 seed, the other was Chris Paul's 37th birthday. Everything went haywire after those two things.
My takeaway from this is: a 64-19 win-loss record, with great distance to boot between the Suns and all other teams, was a double-edged sword that the Suns fell on and impaled themselves. Besides the clutch becoming a crutch, so did the record. I honestly don't ask them to do that again, only to make the playoffs and probably have a "pretty good" record. If they have to fight their way up from a middle-of-the-pack record, good. As long as they do it. Forget having home-court advantage throughout the playoffs. I figured out that relying on home-court advantage can be yet another crutch.
 

Covert Rain

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Yeah, well, I can say only that I don't demand Chris Paul to have the equivalent of the Michael Jordan Flu Game. Besides that Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan, he was younger than Chris Paul. And that was before I understood that Chris Paul was already breaking down and can't play much on-ball defense.
The overall point is there was several reasons the Suns didn't look the same in the playoffs and it started before the regular season ended. To put this all on CP3's alleged sickness doesn't explain all the things we were seeing out of this team.
 

angelofthesouth

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The overall point is there was several reasons the Suns didn't look the same in the playoffs and it started before the regular season ended. To put this all on CP3's alleged sickness doesn't explain all the things we were seeing out of this team.
No, but I do think it would have allowed them to just edge the Mavericks and then lose with some dignity, by getting swept in the WCF by the Warriors. No shame in reaching the WCF and being defeated by an equal. Because dignity is what they have none of after the loss to the Mavericks. It was the most pathetic Suns playoff loss I've ever personally seen. This Kansas City Kings embarrassment in the early 1980s that I've been hearing about: I had only recently been born, so I can't speak of that. I'm not going to claim something ridiculous such as that the Suns could have reached the finals again, much less won a championship, if Paul just hadn't gotten sick
 

AzStevenCal

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Yeah, well, I can say only that I don't demand Chris Paul to have the equivalent of the Michael Jordan Flu Game. Besides that Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan, he was younger than Chris Paul. And that was before I understood that Chris Paul was already breaking down and can't play much on-ball defense.
There's a reason everyone made such a big deal out of MJ's flu game, it's because it's the exception and nowhere near the rule. Most players deal with minor ailments and can play through them at or near their peak level but there are all kinds of ailments that so debilitate a player that he becomes a shadow of who he normally is.

I have no idea if CP3 was bothered by Covid-19 nor do I know if anyone else on the team was impacted. But if he was impacted by it and he was the only player limited because of it, we clearly still have some major issues. If multiple players were limited because of Covid though our rumored approach to this offseason seems like a huge over-reaction.
 

Covert Rain

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No, but I do think it would have allowed them to just edge the Mavericks and then lose with some dignity, by getting swept in the WCF by the Warriors. No shame in reaching the WCF and being defeated by an equal. Because dignity is what they have none of after the loss to the Mavericks. It was the most pathetic Suns playoff loss I've ever personally seen. This Kansas City Kings embarrassment in the early 1980s that I've been hearing about: I had only recently been born, so I can't speak of that. I'm not going to claim something ridiculous such as that the Suns could have reached the finals again, much less won a championship, if Paul just hadn't gotten sick
The Suns had so many issues Paul might have managed to win them another game but that team wasn't going anywhere with all that was going on across the team.
 

Covert Rain

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There's a reason everyone made such a big deal out of MJ's flu game, it's because it's the exception and nowhere near the rule. Most players deal with minor ailments and can play through them at or near their peak level but there are all kinds of ailments that so debilitate a player that he becomes a shadow of who he normally is.

I have no idea if CP3 was bothered by Covid-19 nor do I know if anyone else on the team was impacted. But if he was impacted by it and he was the only player limited because of it, we clearly still have some major issues. If multiple players were limited because of Covid though our rumored approach to this offseason seems like a huge over-reaction.
This. It was clear this wasn't the same team that seemingly may have peaked in the regular season. At times they seemed like a shell of that team.
 

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People need to get over the Dallas loss, they were Hot shooting and we collapsed at the worst time possible and couldn’t buy a bucket for most of the game. Shot happens! Does it suck that it was a game 7 of course but the way we were playing really both rounds was no where near the team most of the season. Something was wrong we may never know but something wasn’t right with the team. We simply cannot run it back now with Ayton as not sure that situation can be resolved/forgotten. Ayton is NOT worth a max deal yet as is clear with the lack of interest!
 

Covert Rain

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People need to get over the Dallas loss, they were Hot shooting and we collapsed at the worst time possible and couldn’t buy a bucket for most of the game. Shot happens! Does it suck that it was a game 7 of course but the way we were playing really both rounds was no where near the team most of the season. Something was wrong we may never know but something wasn’t right with the team. We simply cannot run it back now with Ayton as not sure that situation can be resolved/forgotten. Ayton is NOT worth a max deal yet as is clear with the lack of interest!
I hear what you are saying but this was no ordinary playoff loss. We are talking about a team from last season that went to the finals and were 2 games from a title. We are talking about a team that seemingly looked like they were better this year by setting a franchise record and having the best record in the NBA. We are talking about a team that collapsed and got bounced early by a team that nobody thought we should lose to and became only the 2nd team since the Mavs to do it too.

That's not #$# happens. That's a historical blemish on the franchise that will NEVER be erased until they win a title. Had this team been an 8th seed and been bounced? Nobody really cares. That would be @#$% happens.
 

Peter Sheldon

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My takeaway from this is: a 64-19 win-loss record, with great distance to boot between the Suns and all other teams, was a double-edged sword that the Suns fell on and impaled themselves. Besides the clutch becoming a crutch, so did the record. I honestly don't ask them to do that again, only to make the playoffs and probably have a "pretty good" record. If they have to fight their way up from a middle-of-the-pack record, good. As long as they do it. Forget having home-court advantage throughout the playoffs. I figured out that relying on home-court advantage can be yet another crutch.
Much better for Suns to have battled their way into the playoffs than winning 64 going away
I hear what you are saying but this was no ordinary playoff loss. We are talking about a team from last season that went to the finals and were 2 games from a title. We are talking about a team that seemingly looked like they were better this year by setting a franchise record and having the best record in the NBA. We are talking about a team that collapsed and got bounced early by a team that nobody thought we should lose to and became only the 2nd team since the Mavs to do it too.

That's not #$# happens. That's a historical blemish on the franchise that will NEVER be erased until they win a title. Had this team been an 8th seed and been bounced? Nobody really cares. That would be @#$% happens.
Totally agree. This was no ordinary playoff loss. No team with 64 regular season wins should have 8-10 players effectively go ice cold with no defense, and no adjustments the last two games of a playoff series with no obvious injuries. Especially with a dominant inside threat like Ayton. The stench of this will outlive it's use-by-date. This is a collective failure of epic proportions. Sure, the Mavs got hot from outside. Still should not be a 30+ loss in game 7. And Mavs were not hot in game 3. Where were the Suns in that one?
 

angelofthesouth

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I hope the Suns at least inquired about T.J. Warren, who is joining the Nets. He would have been worth it if the price had been right. Dunno how much money he wanted.
 

angelofthesouth

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Do you know the Suns history with Warren?

The guy is as undependable as they come.
I was here for at least half that time, yeah. And did you notice that I said if the price was right? I don't think I would give a large contract to a player the Suns were willing to trade for cash considerations; but if he'd take a few million, I would probably spare it for a player who had a 50+ game for the Pacers in the bubble. He would probably be a useful scorer off the bench. And the Suns' history with Warren that made him tradable was years ago. Perhaps he's matured.

Besides, last time I saw that Warren went to the Nets, I researched why the Suns traded Warren for cash considerations. Whatever the history with him, the main reason the Suns traded Warren for cash considerations was that they needed to free up money to sign Ricky Rubio.
 

Proximo

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I hope the Suns at least inquired about T.J. Warren, who is joining the Nets. He would have been worth it if the price had been right. Dunno how much money he wanted.
They didn't.

Apparently you don't remember Jones got raped just to get him off the roster when he took over. I am positive he had 0 interest in reacquireing him.
 

Hoop Head

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They didn't.

Apparently you don't remember Jones got raped just to get him off the roster when he took over. I am positive he had 0 interest in reacquireing him.

He was essentially traded for Rubio, which worked out. I would consider that "raped" by any means. If he were traded for Rubio straight up, no one would have complained and everyone would have moved on. TJ was a good scorer but was injury prone and no longer needed here..
 
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AzStevenCal

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Bbg look op


He was essentially traded for Rubio, which worked out. I would consider that "raped" by any means. If he were traded for Rubio straight up, no one would have complained and everyone would have moved on. TJ was a good scorer but was injury prone and no longer needed here..
No longer needed here and apparently not really wanted anywhere else at the time. I always liked TJ but he never quite delivered.
 

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