Suns @ Nuggets Saturday game thread, October 25th, 2025

Raindog

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I think Book could be the guy who gets to the line constantly if he took less threes and drove to the basket instead. The rest I agree with. His game is midrange so he is never going to be great in all 3 aspects. Something’s got to give IMO.
The problem is driving to the hoop more puts him at a much greater risk of injury, which is also something he's had a persistent problem with throughout his career.

Losing Booker for any extended time from this current incarnation of a team pretty much would doom the Suns to about a 15 win season. So pick your poison.
 

Cheesebeef

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The problem is driving to the hoop more puts him at a much greater risk of injury, which is also something he's had a persistent problem with throughout his career.

Losing Booker for any extended time from this current incarnation of a team pretty much would doom the Suns to about a 15 win season. So pick your poison.
I don’t think this squad wins a lot more than 15 wins even with Book. My over under is grimly in the 25 wins level and I’d be surprised if we got to that number.
 

AzStevenCal

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I don’t think this squad wins a lot more than 15 wins even with Book. My over under is grimly in the 25 wins level and I’d be surprised if we got to that number.
Yeah I have trouble seeing how we'll win more than 12 games this season. But then I remind myself that we haven't seen Green at all and we haven't seen much of Williams. Then, I remind myself that our only win was at home against a bad team that was missing a few of its best players and I start thinking 12 win ceiling again.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yeah I have trouble seeing how we'll win more than 12 games this season. But then I remind myself that we haven't seen Green at all and we haven't seen much of Williams. Then, I remind myself that our only win was at home against a bad team that was missing a few of its best players and I start thinking 12 win ceiling again.
12?! Man… you are DEEP in the dark side. I think Green and Book together can lift us to 17-23ish Ws. But it’s a rudderless ship, without an elite difference maker on either end, chock full of rookies and unathletic 3’s with a first time HC. That’s a recipe for disaster.
 

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12?! Man… you are DEEP in the dark side. I think Green and Book together can lift us to 17-23ish Ws. But it’s a rudderless ship, without an elite difference maker on either end, chock full of rookies and unathletic 3’s with a first time HC. That’s a recipe for disaster.
Yep... and, mark this down - at some point in the season, when he's had enough of the losing, being the malcontent he is, Brooks will become a cancer or some type of destructive force on the team. He will become one of the key reasons as to why the team will put up an epic number of L's. And the team will be forced to assertively deal with him in some way, be it players confronting him or Ott, or Gregory, or Ishbia himself... It won't be pretty...
 

AzStevenCal

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12?! Man… you are DEEP in the dark side. I think Green and Book together can lift us to 17-23ish Ws. But it’s a rudderless ship, without an elite difference maker on either end, chock full of rookies and unathletic 3’s with a first time HC. That’s a recipe for disaster.
Yeah 12 might be a bit extreme but if so, it will likely be due to gift wins late in the season as other teams start to tank. We lack talent and nothing hides that for long.
 

AzStevenCal

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Yep... and, mark this down - at some point in the season, when he's had enough of the losing, being the malcontent he is, Brooks will become a cancer or some type of destructive force on the team. He will become one of the key reasons as to why the team will put up an epic number of L's. And the team will be forced to assertively deal with him in some way, be it players confronting him or Ott, or Gregory, or Ishbia himself... It won't be pretty...
I'm not sure whether it will be Brooks that goes nuts first but we are a bad team right now even while everything still seems shiny and new - what will we be when the locker room explodes and players start playing for themselves?
 

82CardsGrad

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I'm not sure whether it will be Brooks that goes nuts first but we are a bad team right now even while everything still seems shiny and new - what will we be when the locker room explodes and players start playing for themselves?
I mean... there very well might be other players who become problematic. However, I really don't see any others holding the potential to explode and cause havoc at the level of Brooks. Gonna be an ugly, ugly season...
 

AzStevenCal

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I mean... there very well might be other players who become problematic. However, I really don't see any others holding the potential to explode and cause havoc at the level of Brooks. Gonna be an ugly, ugly season...
No doubt although my greater concern is that we destroy things with Devin before we go our separate ways. We should have already moved him. Failing that, we should have been setting him up to score 60 every night so we can get something for him when we do finally come to our senses later this season.
 

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Yep... and, mark this down - at some point in the season, when he's had enough of the losing, being the malcontent he is, Brooks will become a cancer or some type of destructive force on the team. He will become one of the key reasons as to why the team will put up an epic number of L's. And the team will be forced to assertively deal with him in some way, be it players confronting him or Ott, or Gregory, or Ishbia himself... It won't be pretty...

Brooks has a reputation but not as a cancerous presence. Where are you getting this idea? He's been on bad teams before.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah I have trouble seeing how we'll win more than 12 games this season. But then I remind myself that we haven't seen Green at all and we haven't seen much of Williams. Then, I remind myself that our only win was at home against a bad team that was missing a few of its best players and I start thinking 12 win ceiling again.
Also have to realize how many new faces there are. Beginning of the season is rarely a good barometer for how a season unfolds as most teams need 10 games to get their legs under them. Most new teams (aka rebuilt and younger) need 20-25 to get acclimated. While I don’t think this team is going to be anything other than mediocre-to-bad I think it’s incredibly difficult-to-impossible to get a realistic read on them at this point.
 

95pro

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Also have to realize how many new faces there are. Beginning of the season is rarely a good barometer for how a season unfolds as most teams need 10 games to get their legs under them. Most new teams (aka rebuilt and younger) need 20-25 to get acclimated. While I don’t think this team is going to be anything other than mediocre-to-bad I think it’s incredibly difficult-to-impossible to get a realistic read on them at this point.

The thing for me is that we see the same things happening with some main characters; Oneale, Allen, Dunn and Book.

Oneale makes a lot of mistakes about everywhere, bad passes, bad shots, poor defense.
Allen is singled out everytime on defense, has been pretty bad.
Dunn is given no respect on when he's on offense.
Book has been passive about half the time and not looking to go off.

Starting Oneale and Allen is an issue for me, to lessen the sting I think we could stagger them.
 

AzStevenCal

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Also have to realize how many new faces there are. Beginning of the season is rarely a good barometer for how a season unfolds as most teams need 10 games to get their legs under them. Most new teams (aka rebuilt and younger) need 20-25 to get acclimated. While I don’t think this team is going to be anything other than mediocre-to-bad I think it’s incredibly difficult-to-impossible to get a realistic read on them at this point.
I typed out a nice long response justifying my prediction and then deleted it because I just don't want to argue in favor of us sucking horribly this season. I'll just hope I'm wrong and that my 12 win prediction looks silly by midseason.
 

Hoop Head

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I typed out a nice long response justifying my prediction and then deleted it because I just don't want to argue in favor of us sucking horribly this season. I'll just hope I'm wrong and that my 12 win prediction looks silly by midseason.

I'm genuinely curious because I'll admit to being optimistic but your view is one I value and is rational 99% of the time. I think you're underselling this year's team. I'm not saying they'll be great but struggling to get to 20 wins is a bit much.
 

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Superbone

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I typed out a nice long response justifying my prediction and then deleted it because I just don't want to argue in favor of us sucking horribly this season. I'll just hope I'm wrong and that my 12 win prediction looks silly by midseason.
I sure hope so and then we can make good fun of you. :p Unfortunately, based on these first three games anyway, I could see you being accurate with your assessment but I am hoping you are what you appear to be which is a broken man, when it comes to our Suns. :cool:
 
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Mainstreet

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I typed out a nice long response justifying my prediction and then deleted it because I just don't want to argue in favor of us sucking horribly this season. I'll just hope I'm wrong and that my 12 win prediction looks silly by midseason.

If you got it lying around, I'd like to read it. :)

Honestly, with a bunch of new players, and an inexperienced level NBA head coach and GM, almost anything is possible.

Hopefully it comes together, but there are no guarantees. Minimally, I want the team to be watchable and headed in the right direction.
 

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95pro

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Yeah I was there also but thought maybe his resume would be more useful to this young squad but he's really not good. I'll give it through game 5 for Ott to decide he's given him enough of a shot.

I'm fine rebuilding value of guys through the deadline to get a lineup for the future. I have faith in Maluach and do like Dunn also but I'm not sold on Dunn being more than a defensive version of Cam J. Tweener forward who is a borderline starter that will help win a couple of a games a year but primarily he's quality depth who won't cost us games.

I'm genuinely curious to know what Brooks might fetch in a trade also if he continues averaging 18 a game on league average from 3. Packaged with Williams would be a nice gamble for someone and they equal about $30 million in salary.

Davis has shown nothing, just a slight smear in pre-season and nothing else. Its only been three regular season games but man it sure feels like we are 1 and 30 right now.
 

Hoop Head

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Davis has shown nothing, just a slight smear in pre-season and nothing else. Its only been three regular season games but man it sure feels like we are 1 and 30 right now.

I agree that Davis has shown nothing and is at the end of his leash. It's a long season and the only reason I'm not calling for a faster switch is Ott is still getting his feet wet as a head coach plus we don't have Green yet. By the time game 6 roles around though I hope they give Hayes-Davis # different address to report to.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I typed out a nice long response justifying my prediction and then deleted it because I just don't want to argue in favor of us sucking horribly this season. I'll just hope I'm wrong and that my 12 win prediction looks silly by midseason.
I mean, I have a tendency to go full realism to a fault and I don’t see us being THAT bad. So I am a bit curious as to your prediction. 12 win teams don’t usually have anyone the caliber of Booker. I mean, that threatens the all-time record for futility of 10.
 

AzStevenCal

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I mean, I have a tendency to go full realism to a fault and I don’t see us being THAT bad. So I am a bit curious as to your prediction. 12 win teams don’t usually have anyone the caliber of Booker. I mean, that threatens the all-time record for futility of 10.
I think we have the worst power forward situation in the league, one of the worst center situations (until/unless Malauch develops), a middling small forward situation, an average shooting guard situation and a bottom third point guard rotation. Add to those a new and untested Head Coach and I think 12 wins is generous.

Yes, we have reason to hope it won't be that bad but right now, I'm just not willing to assume Williams or Green will be net positives. They aren't locks to help us when they are healthy and they are locks to not be healthy (since one is always injured and the other appears to have a questionable hammy). We don't have tradable value sitting around so this is basically what we have. Our young players will hopefully improve but every team has young players.
 
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