Suns hire Frank Vogel as next head coach

nashman

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
9,125
Reaction score
5,059
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
I am thinking Windhorst brought up not paying Paul $30 million to add to their ability to bring guys in.
Yeah I think they would have to come to an agreement to cut him pay him the 15 then sign him to like a vet min 2.5 or something but why would Paul want to do that? He could simply be like NO pay me my full contract or I’m gone…
 

nashman

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
9,125
Reaction score
5,059
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
Trading Ayton for a few players seems like the easiest way to beef up the roster. I’m just so done with his half ass efforts it might just be the frustration talking but would rather have hustlers than his lazy half efforts.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
35,072
Reaction score
13,273
Little discouraged, not sure how you’re gonna fill out a roster if you keep DA and Paul. DA is what he is at this point I don’t think a different coach is all of a sudden gonna make him aggressive and not lazy and lackadaisical! I hope I’m wrong but just running back the same team seems… we’ll just stupid at this point! We need gaurd depth and bigs that actually play big!
I don't disagree but I think a different coach has a better chance of getting DA to play like an above average player than we do of acquiring a better than average player by trading Ayton and/or CP3. IOW, it's not a great decision but it's still likely our best option.

The odds may not be in our favor but if we can turn Ayton into an above average player and turn CP3 into a solid rotation player who helps take control at the end of games, we have a real chance of being a contender this season. I don't think it's feasible otherwise.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
35,072
Reaction score
13,273
Trading Ayton for a few players seems like the easiest way to beef up the roster. I’m just so done with his half ass efforts it might just be the frustration talking but would rather have hustlers than his lazy half efforts.
Sure but would you give up two solid rotation players to take on DA and his max contract?
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
I am thinking Windhorst brought up not paying Paul $30 million to add to their ability to bring guys in.

I read there were other options besides waiving Chris Paul and stretching his guaranteed $15.8 million salary, trading him or paying him his full $30.8 million salary. I'm not sure what this could be unless his contract could be renegotiated for something less.

 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
42,528
Reaction score
11,654
Location
Round Rock, TX
I read there were other options besides waiving Chris Paul and stretching his guaranteed $15.8 million salary, trading him or paying him his full $30.8 million salary. I'm not sure what this could be unless his contract could be renegotiated for something less.

He did say something odd in that video, that there was another way to still have him on the team but not pay him the full $30m. I wasn't sure if I heard it right or not. Strangely enough, he didn't elaborate -- which I would expect from a sports reporter. And that link just shows how ambiguous the comment was.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
Yeah I think they would have to come to an agreement to cut him pay him the 15 then sign him to like a vet min 2.5 or something but why would Paul want to do that? He could simply be like NO pay me my full contract or I’m gone…

If the Suns were able to renegotiate Paul's contract (I'm not sure if they can) I think he would minimally get the guaranteed amount or the full amount, but it might be spread over more years. I seriously doubt Paul is going to give up more than the guaranteed amount of salary.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
He did say something odd in that video, that there was another way to still have him on the team but not pay him the full $30m. I wasn't sure if I heard it right or not. Strangely enough, he didn't elaborate -- which I would expect from a sports reporter. And that link just shows how ambiguous the comment was.

This is what caught my eye. I wasn't aware of any other options we didn't know about. However, those details could be hidden in the contract.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
Windhorst: "CP3 will be a sun, not at $30 million, and he says they have other options than stretching him. Ayton will be on the Suns, and thinks Vogel got the job on how he would handle Ayton."

I had to try out the 100. :)
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
35,072
Reaction score
13,273
I wouldn't give up the $40 worth of ramen noodles I got on sale way back in 2020 during the covid lockdown - because unlike DeAndre Ayton - the ramen noodles might come in handy some day
Okay then how much do you think you'd have to pay another team to absorb the 133 Million left on his contract? I think it would take at least 2 first rounders, that we don't have, to find a buyer. Unless there's someone out that actually believes (believes, not hopes) they can turn him around.
 

BirdGangThing

Casual Fan
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
4,985
Reaction score
6,649
Location
Arcadia
If the Suns were able to renegotiate Paul's contract (I'm not sure if they can) I think he would minimally get the guaranteed amount or the full amount, but it might be spread over more years. I seriously doubt Paul is going to give up more than the guaranteed amount of salary.
Really all comes down to whether CP3 wants a ring, and whether or not he thinks he can get one here

When he first arrived he had the pick and roll with Ayton going so defenses couldn't smother Devin Booker - and he also had 3pt shooters not named Devin Booker

But the pick and roll as a primary option is a thing of the past, because not only does KD give Booker more breathing room, but you can also depend on KD during crunch time

We saw it after one of the wins late in the season, CP3 hit like a bazillion 3s to clinch it for the Suns and he still looked unhappy in the post game interview talking about how his duties had changed

So the question is will CP3 not only take a pay cut, but also a play cut? Because in all honesty we need more youth and paint penetration from our starting PG

And we need Chris Paul to become CP3-Pointer
 
Last edited:

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
42,528
Reaction score
11,654
Location
Round Rock, TX
This is what caught my eye. I wasn't aware of any other options we didn't know about. However, those details could be hidden in the contract.
True, but then how does Windhorst know about it? And if it "top secret", and he can't reveal it, who would even tell him it was a possibility? Strange. But if there is a chance, we have to do it, I just can't imagine we'd get a good return in a trade for Chris Paul.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
Looks like we are going on a spending binge for asst coaches. Might make us more intriguing for players.

It tells me the Suns may indeed have a plan regarding the new CBA or it is starting to look like it.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
14,645
Reaction score
8,941
Location
Tempe, AZ
Okay then how much do you think you'd have to pay another team to absorb the 133 Million left on his contract? I think it would take at least 2 first rounders, that we don't have, to find a buyer. Unless there's someone out that actually believes (believes, not hopes) they can turn him around.

There's only $100 million left on his deal, year 1 is finished. So 3 years and around $100m remain. I don't think it's a negative contract to a young team. I'd be calling OKC and see if we could pry one of their guards away. They can't keep and pay everyone. Maybe they let Dort or Giddey go. They're loaded with solid young talent.

The issue then is finding a Center, which could be done with Landry Shamet's contract. I'd call Detroit and see who is available because they're loaded with Jalen Duran, Isaiah Stewart, Noel, Bagley, and Wiseman. Shamet for Bagley works, I believe. I know Bagley hasn't shown a lot but he played for an awful Sacramento team with a revolving door of coaches. I'd do that even if Ayton isn't traded because they played AAU together and perhaps playing together helps both of them.
 

Yuma

Working from home. Missing my free coffee!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
17,629
Reaction score
6,994
Location
Laveen, AZ
Love the Fizdale hire. Maybe we are going for a dream team of assistants? :shrug:
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
42,528
Reaction score
11,654
Location
Round Rock, TX
There's only $100 million left on his deal, year 1 is finished. So 3 years and around $100m remain. I don't think it's a negative contract to a young team. I'd be calling OKC and see if we could pry one of their guards away. They can't keep and pay everyone. Maybe they let Dort or Giddey go. They're loaded with solid young talent.

The issue then is finding a Center, which could be done with Landry Shamet's contract. I'd call Detroit and see who is available because they're loaded with Jalen Duran, Isaiah Stewart, Noel, Bagley, and Wiseman. Shamet for Bagley works, I believe. I know Bagley hasn't shown a lot but he played for an awful Sacramento team with a revolving door of coaches. I'd do that even if Ayton isn't traded because they played AAU together and perhaps playing together helps both of them.
Shamet for Bagley would do one thing for sure--prove that Shamet is Monty's favorite.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
105,972
Reaction score
45,029
Okay then how much do you think you'd have to pay another team to absorb the 133 Million left on his contract? I think it would take at least 2 first rounders, that we don't have, to find a buyer. Unless there's someone out that actually believes (believes, not hopes) they can turn him around.

I don't have a calculator but I think Ayton has only slightly more than a $100 million remaining on his contract.

Let's hope there is a believer out there.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
10,286
Reaction score
7,698
Sure but would you give up two solid rotation players to take on DA and his max contract?
Depends on the team, some might if they think Ayton can be an all star level player. I think he can be.

I'm actually ok with giving DA a trial run under new coaching, after all his value is at an all-time low right now, we don't have much to lose by waiting till the deadline, and if it's not working we can trade him for peanuts then.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
23,028
Reaction score
14,307
Location
The Giant Toaster
I am thinking Windhorst brought up not paying Paul $30 million to add to their ability to bring guys in.
Stretching or cutting Paul and re-signing him does nothing in terms of signing other players. We’re over the cap with or without him.

Also relying on CP3 going into another postseason would be asinine whether his responsibility load is lighter or not.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,392
Reaction score
4,602
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Stretching or cutting Paul and re-signing him does nothing in terms of signing other players. We’re over the cap with or without him.

Also relying on CP3 going into another postseason would be asinine whether his responsibility load is lighter or not.

Over the cap- yes. Over the luxury tax threshold- no. Waiving and stretching Paul would give them bigger mid-level exception and the other bi-annual exception. That said, I do agree that the Suns can't rely on CP3. I also don't know of a way to have CP3 on the roster not at his current salary. Windhorst claims that there is, and I would guess he knows more than I do, but he provided no specifics.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
519,875
Posts
5,104,590
Members
6,237
Latest member
Kits
Top