Suns Draft Prospects Who do We Take?

[SweetD]

At first I was looking at Zarko but I may also be intrested in Brian Cook?

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[thegrahamcrackr]

how could you possibly sway away from zarko. You annoyed me for like 2 months yelling

ZAKO ZAKO ZAKO!!!!

dont even try changing your opinion after forcing us all through that

Personally I tend not to even look at draft prospects, especially international ones until a month before the draft. So much BS is floated around about mystery players it is unreal. At the beginning of the season "baby shaq" was like 7', now I hear he might be 6'8.

I'll start throwin my thoughts out after the draft lottery and once more scouting reports, especially from europe come in. A lot of GMs and big name scouts go to Euro after the season/ Tourney. Usually more solid info comes out around the beginning of june. Until then it is just all speculation, which IMO is worthless.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr


I'll start throwin my thoughts out after the draft lottery and once more scouting reports, especially from europe come in. A lot of GMs and big name scouts go to Euro after the season/ Tourney. Usually more solid info comes out around the beginning of june. Until then it is just all speculation, which IMO is worthless.

You're right, it is just speculation, but what else are we going to talk about right now in regards to the Suns? I actually love talking about prospects--it's a crapshoot, but it's fun.

 

[elindholm]

A player like what Cabarkapa is described as being could be a great fit on the Suns. Whether he is actually that kind of player is, of course, a wide-open question.

 

[elindholm]

Schortsianidis is about to turn 18. It would be interesting to find out how much he has grown in the past year.

Have you looked at his free-throw percentages? 43% this year and 33% the year before that. Talk about ugly.

I'd be pretty surprised if the Suns drafted him. They've already been burned by one big Greek center "propsect" who hasn't exactly panned out.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

fair enough eric.
here is something else to talk abotu though...
have you guys seen the hotel Sahwn was talking about going to? It is the craziest thing i have ever seen. I saw the same E special he was tlaking about, it is just unreal. A man made island, rooms are thousands a night....tightest thing i have ever seen

 

[slinslin]

Shortsianitis isn't exactly greece. His father is nigerian or something like that and his mother is from greece.

Phoenix would obviously be the best fit for him since we already have another player from greece.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok I will give somewhat of a take for the draft from my point of view.

1.) I do not want to draft an offense oriented player. Period. IMO this team will have 5 players who could easily average 20ppg a night if given the touches. Steph, Amare, Marion, Penny, and I am putting JJ in there (he is incredible when he doesnt suck )

2.) I do not want to draft an international player unless they are an immediate impact (like gasol or ming) or the team intends on keeping them over seas for a few years, then brings them over when they can impact the team. (Jaric, Manu ect. ect.)

3.) A PG is an interesting idea, but IMO uneccesary. We already have 2 very good floor leaders in Marbury and Penny, and JJ i feel will be almost a Penny clone in years to come if he gets his confidence level stable.

4.) A PF or undersized center is a waste of money. Amare should play like 38 mpg next year. We would still have the Jakes, Bo, and possibly Williams to play. We dont want to get a logjam, especilaly forcing a young player to end of the bench. A la Ford.

5.) Since ford is such a sensative subject here, in no way am i endorsing, or ignoring his potential. There is no room for him, plain and simple. Let us not do it twice.

6.) As of now, I would not be against trading our pick. Actually I would be happy if we did. Our team does not have a need that can be filled via the draft IMO. Here is some reasons why:

A. ) We are kind of like the bulls (to a lesser extent of course). We have a lot of young talent already, that needs to be evaluated and given time.

B.) If we were to trade down to multiple 2nd round picks, we could get a steal by obtaining someone's rights while not paying them to suck it up at the end of the bench. Or get a smart player like Walton who will fall to the 2nd round because he doesnt have as much "potential". Plus we make up thje contracts for 2nd round picks.

C.) We could possibly get an average veteran for cheap due to contractual ideas from another team.

D.) Against part C, our financial situation is very bad next season. Since googs is taking his option, and Marion's extension kicks in, we are going to have like a 63 million dollar payroll next year. Assuming the luxary tax threshhold stays around 53 million, we would be paying 73 million to personnel. That would kill the team.

E.) Why would we want to get another 3 year contract on an unknown player. Just so they can break out in year 3 or 4, then us not be able to afford them later?

F.) I agree very very much so with Joe who I believe first brought up the possibility of getting Gardener if he goes undrafted. That would make my day.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by slinslin

Phoenix would obviously be the best fit for him since we already have another player from greece.

That is like satying RJ would have best fit in Phx because he went to Moon Valley. Or Amare would have fit best in Orlando because he was from there. Or Hell, Kobe should have played in italy leagues because he grew up there.

 

[slinslin]

It's not because Shortsianitis is a foreigner and will have to adjust to a different life style. It helps if you have someone who experienced the same and speaks the same language.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, graham, your 1-4 above pretty much says don't draft period. What you don't want far outweighs what you DO want.

And how good of a player do you think we'd get in a trade for the #17? Certainly comparable to the player we'd draft, don't you think?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by slinslin
Shortsianitis isn't exactly greece. His father is nigerian or something like that and his mother is from greece.

Phoenix would obviously be the best fit for him since we already have another player from greece.

You've got it backwards....His father is Greek (I never seen a African with a Greek name) and his mother is Nigerian.


"Son of a Greek father and a Nigerian mother, Shortsianitis impressed last year Iraklis American player..."

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/sophoclesschortsianitis.htm

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Yeah, I am pretty much against the draft this year. I do not feel we have any room for another young player, and I dont think we can afford to pay him.


Like I said, if we were to trade the #17 pick I would take 2 2nd round picks. At least then we are not required anything. Trade it for a future first a couple years later. The hornets got alexander for the 17 last year.

I am not saying we would get a vet of real value for the pick. But would you rather have someone like scott williams, who gets sporadic time, is inconsistant but at least knows his role on the team and is always positive?? or would you want an inconsistant 20 year old who thinks he is the **** and complains about PT???

Like I said in my first post, what happens if we get lucky in the draft at 17? How could we pay him?? We would already havbe like 35 million dedicated to 3 players (assuming amare will get maxed). JJ would be getting paid a good amount if he continues to progress. That doesnt leave much cash. I dont like the idea of going through the growing pains with a player just so he can get a big check somewhere else.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

I am not saying we would get a vet of real value for the pick. But would you rather have someone like scott williams, who gets sporadic time, is inconsistant but at least knows his role on the team and is always positive?? or would you want an inconsistant 20 year old who thinks he is the **** and complains about PT???

Like I said in my first post, what happens if we get lucky in the draft at 17? How could we pay him?? We would already havbe like 35 million dedicated to 3 players (assuming amare will get maxed). JJ would be getting paid a good amount if he continues to progress. That doesnt leave much cash. I dont like the idea of going through the growing pains with a player just so he can get a big check somewhere else.

Do you want to improve the team or not?

You're basing your entire arguement on a crapshoots and assumptions, when you could assume the opposite and be just as credible.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

your right chap, it could go either way.....

but are you looking at improving the team long term or short term? i mean it all depends on which exact player you are talking about. I personally think we could attract some role players for parts of our mid level this year. The team gets along well, the weather here is nice, the C's are some of the most reputable people in the league and the team played well alst year.

Do you think we could get a better player through the draft for NEXT YEAR than FA?? I personnally think we would do better with a FA or trade than a pick.

I am all for improving the team, but I think the biggest improvement that could happen is time.

Sure we could mix up the role players a bit, but give this current core a few years together. Look at Sac, their core has been together for like 4 or 5 years. When they improve their role players they dont look at 20 year old draft prospects, they look at experienced FAs like jimmy.

Basically all I am saying is our team is young and expensive. Not a good combo in my mind. Give it time, some minor tweaks here and there, but for once this team needs to let things grow on their own.

 

[Joe Mama]

Personally I think you are off your rocker if you don't want someone with a good offensive game. Bench scoring was probably the biggest weakness for the Phoenix Suns this season. The only request I have is that they take someone who can contribute next season. I'd like to see a college or European league veteran.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

by the way chap, I do not know whether or not you agree, or if you want some more concrete thoughts. I mean even you said

You're right, it is just speculation, but what else are we going to talk about right now in regards to the Suns? I actually love talking about prospects--it's a crapshoot, but it's fun.

then you said

You're basing your entire arguement on a crapshoots and assumptions, when you could assume the opposite and be just as credible.

I am just playing the crapshoot game you descirbed. This is why I tend to bite my lip until more information is available. As it stands of right now, I think the draft is almost pointless for this team since we have no major needs. Sure some 2nd and 3rd strings players would be nice, but you can obtain those players pretty easily without gambling. The draft is a gamble, why risk 3 contracts years when you can know what you are getting for the same price?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

Basically all I am saying is our team is young and expensive. Not a good combo in my mind. Give it time, some minor tweaks here and there, but for once this team needs to let things grow on their own.

Wait a sec. It sounds like you're against taking anything away, which I agree with. But it almost sounds like you're against adding anything. But you've also said you'd prefer a vet FA over the #17 pick.

And, that, I disagree with. We have a young team, and I think it would be absolutely terrific to add a good prospect as well. I'm not sure I'm all for getting a prototypical PF--I'd be more willing to get a PF that can play some center (some can't) or a tall and mobile SF.

But offensive firepower is a must, whether it's from the draft or FA.

Personally, I think free agency is a pipe dream this summer. Sure, I'd love to see Mourning or even Elden Campbell. But I won't. We're only looking at low level FAs, guys like Dan Langhi, unfortunately.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

I am just playing the crapshoot game you descirbed. This is why I tend to bite my lip until more information is available. As it stands of right now, I think the draft is almost pointless for this team since we have no major needs. Sure some 2nd and 3rd strings players would be nice, but you can obtain those players pretty easily without gambling. The draft is a gamble, why risk 3 contracts years when you can know what you are getting for the same price?

There's a difference between throwing out speculative options and effectively eliminating them by including prequisites--prereqs that may or may not be reality.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Personally I think you are off your rocker if you don't want someone with a good offensive game.
Joe Mama

I said an offensive oriented game. Of course I want them to score when they get the ball in position. I am not talking about a Ben Wallace or Bo Outlaw. I am talking about a Ron Artest mentality. Someone who would rather exert energy on defense then offense, but could score if needed.

I think bench scoring will go up a bit next year. Half way through the season Bo and Lil Jake started to look for a shot with the opportunity. I think that either Joe as a bench player or penny as a bench player SHOULD put in like 12-15ppg.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am against adding anything major, likea 20-24 mpg player. I just personally feel we would do better with a FA playing for cheap then a draft pick. IMO you use 2nd round pick to draft 3rd string guys not first round picks. (The only 2nd string guy we need is at SF IMO).

Mourning might be the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while. He isnt coming.

I dont even want Campbell.

Like I said, I am not against a FA, not a Dan Langhi type, but like Williams or an older vet that is LOOKING to be a limited role player.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Like I said, I am not against a FA, not a Dan Langhi type, but like Williams or an older vet that is LOOKING to be a limited role player. [/B]

But how does that IMPROVE the team? It doesn't add anything to the salary number, but it doesn't take away either.

As for your 1st rounder shouldn't go to 3rd stringers--tell that to Denver, who has Tskitishvilli languishing on the bench. You can still draft for upside.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Everyone thinks that offensive fire power is a must, but I think we will get more fire power form our current squad.

Can anyone on this board actually think that Amare's scoring average wont be at least 16.5 next season? Or JJ wont be at 12ppg? That is a 3 ppg improvement from Amare and a 2ppg improvement from JJ. We are talking about one more basket each.

Assuming that Brown, Langhi and Fords numebrs are replaced by otehr people, that would raise our average to like 100.5 ppg as a team, putting us in 3rd place. I do not think that is possible, but I also dont think that it is necessary. I mean SA only scores .3 ppg more a game then us this season. They are contenders. The difference is they are #3 in defense ppg, while we are #14.

Sure offense would LOOK great, but this team would benefit mroe from defense IMO.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
As for your 1st rounder shouldn't go to 3rd stringers--tell that to Denver, who has Tskitishvilli languishing on the bench. You can still draft for upside.

Please tell me where Denver is getting praise for drafting Skita..........just because someone else did it doesnt make it right.


Do you honestly think a #17 pick will make a bigger impact next seaosn than williams made this year?? Ill admit it, I am playing it safe, but I see no need ot continue to gamble, eventually luck runs out, and this team has been very lucky in picks the past few years.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

Do you honestly think a #17 pick will make a bigger impact next seaosn than williams made this year?? Ill admit it, I am playing it safe, but I see no need ot continue to gamble, eventually luck runs out, and this team has been very lucky in picks the past few years.

Why is it a gamble? We can get either a good prospect who has time to grow, or a vet FA who will be gone within a year or two. What's better? I'd take the prospect myself, since we have a pretty good team right now. Give that prospect a year (as well as our other young players), and all of a sudden, we're looking really good.