Suns @ Bucks Tuesday Finals game thread 7-20-2021 - Game 6

Hoop Head

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Interestingly Bridges has higher win shares this season than Middleton has ever had in his career.

His vorp is higher too.

Would you trade Bridges for Middleton? I would, in a heartbeat and I doubt anyone else would pass up that chance either. Advanced stats aren't a tell all. Guess what Middleton has over Bridges? A better finals winning percentage. That's all that matters.
 

BC867

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I had to stop by one time to share my frustration.

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boisesuns

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Hey look on the bright side. It took until there would only be one possible game left in the season for a bunch of people to argue with eachother on the internet. usually it’s when we finish 10th or 11th.

Frustrating way to go out, and I think the suns actually having a good team and showing real potential was part of the reason it stings more. Hard to be that close then have it feel like you just couldn’t keep up with the momentum swings.

life has been crazy these last few years, nice to just watch and enjoy sports again with a team I never thought would be here.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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We were talking about Ayton’s role in this offense and how it contrasts with other offenses who run inside out sets. 100% material. How is not material?

We agree Ayton should score on people when he has mismatches if they give him the ball. How often did they actually manufacture switches for him all season long? They didn’t even do that in the playoffs. Check his assisted stats and shot charts. They didn’t call plays and throw it down to him to go to work very often. Far and away they ran pick and rolls instead. I will have to check but it seems like they tried it more tonight than any game I can remember this playoffs.
Nope not even close. I never brought up other offenses. You did. I have been consistent in talking about his inability to take advantage of switches. Which occurred ALL SEASON and ALL PLAYOFFS. It is literally the result of every pick and role we run. And his failure to be capable of taking advantage of 6’3 and 6’7 guards down low and that an entire offense need not be built around that for him to be capable of it. I think I’ve now typed that at least 5 times. Maybe this time you’ll concentrate on what I actually type and not make up strawman arguments to put in my mouth to try to bolster your weak argument that the offense needs to be built around that for him to be capable of it.
 

Covert Rain

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Nope not even close. I never brought up other offenses. You did. I have been consistent in talking about his inability to take advantage of switches. Which occurred ALL SEASON and ALL PLAYOFFS. It is literally the result of every pick and role we run. And his failure to be capable of taking advantage of 6’3 and 6’7 guards down low and that an entire offense need not be built around that for him to be capable of it. I think I’ve now typed that at least 5 times. Maybe this time you’ll concentrate on what I actually type and not make up strawman arguments to put in my mouth to try to bolster your weak argument that the offense needs to be built around that for him to be capable of it.
So? I did. It was material the discussion in terms of how the Suns run their offensive sets and what they ask Ayton to do in that offense. I have not moved the goal post and have been consistent in that his role isn't a throw it down to you, go to work type player. It hasn't been all season and all playoffs long. Asking a guy to be something he hasn't been all season and expecting him to be efficient is out of whack expectations. Who in their right mind would expect that to change in this series? That doesn't mean they shouldn't try. They did. It's not shocking it didn't work. I have typed that multiple times as well. Maybe you should see what he does when they actually design that type of offense for him and see how he runs it over a course of a season. That's not unreasonable. Should he be better at certain skills? We have all said that. REPEATEDLY. Your examples are anecdotal. How man times was he actually matched up against a 6'3" guard compared to big men? Weak sauce. Should he take advantage of small guys? Sure the seldom times that it actually happens. 100%.
 
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GoldGloveschmidt

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I really thinking Ayton was just so mentally down in the dumps from these foul calls that it ruined his game. Hopefully he can mature and learn to keep competing even when calls aren't going your way. Book often has the same issue, although he starts committing dumb fouls rather than giving up.
 

Covert Rain

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I really thinking Ayton was just so mentally down in the dumps from these foul calls that it ruined his game. Hopefully he can mature and learn to keep competing even when calls aren't going your way. Book often has the same issue, although he starts committing dumb fouls rather than giving up.
He had a ton of trouble getting squared up on defense. Van Gundy kept repeating that throughout the night. Part of that was how fast Giannis is as well.
 

lorenzotexan

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Would you trade Bridges for Middleton? I would, in a heartbeat and I doubt anyone else would pass up that chance either. Advanced stats aren't a tell all. Guess what Middleton has over Bridges? A better finals winning percentage. That's all that matters.
Bridges is a great defender and a good 3 point shooter. Middleton is a well rounded offensive player. and if you go back to the ATL series when Giannis was out, he and Holiday both carried that team in closing that series. I would make the case that Giannis getting hurt helped those 2, mentally, to prep for what they needed to do in the finals. I guess it would be the equivalent of booker missing time in a playoff series...is bridges or someone else on the suns going to carry them at both ends of the court to ensure a series? Holiday was possessed at both ends of the court in game 5....he was the absolute mvp of that game. Middleton hit the big shot last night to basically ice the game. I think it's easy to poke holes in people statistically, but when it comes to winning an NBA championship, there are a lot of stats that do not capture effort at both ends of the court.
 

Yuma

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My take is the Bucks used their size to their advantage, and Giannis was the best player on the floor. Ayton has to get better defensively, but he also needs help out there. That was our weakness when this team was assembled, size. We will see what happens this off season. It is disappointing we didn't win, but we got plenty of bonus Suns action this play off season after not seeing any play offs for ten years! It was certainly refreshing to be disappointed we did not win, instead of feeling we had no chance to get to the finals at all. We all felt the Lakers, Nuggets, and Clippers were going to beat us. We had a great run. This team and all the players individually still have room to grow and learn from this. I can't wait to see next season!
 

82CardsGrad

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But still miles ahead of where Bridges is.

And why wouldn’t it be? Middleton is 29 and just completed his 9th season in the NBA, his 8th with Giannis. I’m not one who is predicting Bridges will become as effective as Middleton is… but, I can definitely see Bridges continuing to grow, develop and refine his game to where he is a much bigger and consistent contributor on offense.
 

82CardsGrad

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Would you trade Bridges for Middleton? I would, in a heartbeat and I doubt anyone else would pass up that chance either. Advanced stats aren't a tell all. Guess what Middleton has over Bridges? A better finals winning percentage. That's all that matters.
Sure, but are we really comparing a 24 year-old with 3 NBA seasons, to a 29 year-old with 9 NBA seasons?
 

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