Suns @ Bucks Sunday game thread 3-6-2022

AsUpRoDiGy

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No man, what’s lazy is arguing numbers when we are talking about what we actually saw. There were two instances where a rebound caromed right over a stationary Ayton to giannis where they scored second chance points. Ayton didn’t even try to box Giannis out.
Late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line especially. Ayton became lackadaisical on the boards and the 2nd chance points just killed us. Again, this isn't all on Ayton, but he's the athletic 7 footer who should easily be getting those rebounds over anyone else on the team, and the lack of effort was blatantly obvious.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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This is what I’ve been trying to say. The entire team has fallen off a cliff rebounding, but people only look at Ayton

What’s going on. What’s the explanation for this.
Yeah something is weird. But I think the reason people look at Ayton is obvious. This is a guy who averages 11.5 rebounds per game two seasons ago. And he’s still young. And for over a month now he’s averaging 8 rebounds per game. We know he can go get 11 and he gets 8. And that’s visible to those watching the games.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line especially. Ayton became lackadaisical on the boards and the 2nd chance points just killed us. Again, this isn't all on Ayton, but he's the athletic 7 footer who should easily be getting those rebounds over anyone else on the team, and the lack of effort was blatantly obvious.
And it’s not like this is something just a bunch of guys on a sports board saw. He said it himself. So either he’s that self aware of his poor effort (1 rebound in the 4th) or monty or Paul called him out on it.
 

Covert Rain

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Yeah something is weird. But I think the reason people look at Ayton is obvious. This is a guy who averages 11.5 rebounds per game two seasons ago. And he’s still young. And for over a month now he’s averaging 8 rebounds per game. We know he can go get 11 and he gets 8. And that’s visible to those watching the games.
The problem is if het get 11 the Suns still lose that game. They gave up 15 threes, shot for a worse from the free throw line than the Bucks, didn't play defense and got worked by 21 rebounds. Ayton is just a bigger punching bag than some other players on this team.
 

Chaplin

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The problem is if het get 11 the Suns still lose that game. They gave up 15 threes, shot for a worse from the free throw line than the Bucks, didn't play defense and got worked by 21 rebounds. Ayton is just a bigger punching bag than some other players on this team.
How do you figure that?? 3 rebounds would be massive, especially if the 3 he DIDN'T get led to scores (which they frequently did). 3 more rebounds by ANYBODY could have potentially been huge because their offensive rebound difference was so glaring.
 

Covert Rain

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How do you figure that?? 3 rebounds would be massive, especially if the 3 he DIDN'T get led to scores (which they frequently did). 3 more rebounds by ANYBODY could have potentially been huge because their offensive rebound difference was so glaring.
How do you figure 3 rebounds is massive when we got worked by 21? I have seen guys time and time again get 3 rebounds over tips on the same bucket. 3 more on a 21 differential isn't going to swing a game. The results of those rebounds doesn't even come close to guaranteeing a score on the other end either. Also, why does it have to be Ayton's 3 extra? Why not Bridges? Why not one of the other guys who normally get more too? Why not the other bigs who couldn't stay on the floor?

Why not just say then if the TEAM got 3 more rebounds?
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The problem is if het get 11 the Suns still lose that game. They gave up 15 threes, shot for a worse from the free throw line than the Bucks, didn't play defense and got worked by 21 rebounds. Ayton is just a bigger punching bag than some other players on this team.
Not if those additional 3 rebounds included the two that went right by him that Giannis grabbed that lead to 4 more points when we were still right in it. He grabs those - for which he had position - and our chances to win go up exponentially. Yes, if a lot of things went differently we steal the game. But we just aren’t choosing to discuss them. If some of you want to discuss those, by all means, do so. No one’s stopping you. But those two boards were big and by all rights ayton could’ve and likely should’ve gotten them. Arguing there were also other reasons for the loss doesn’t eliminate what we are discussing as a reason as well.
 

Covert Rain

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Not if those additional 3 rebounds included the two that went right by him that Giannis grabbed that lead to 4 more points when we were still right in it. He grabs those - for which he had position - and our chances to win go up exponentially. Yes, if a lot of things went differently we steal the game. But we just aren’t choosing to discuss them. If some of you want to discuss those, by all means, do so. No one’s stopping you. But those two boards were big and by all rights ayton could’ve and likely should’ve gotten them. Arguing there were also other reasons for the loss doesn’t eliminate what we are discussing as a reason as well.
Zero from Bridges was bigger. Fewer rebounds from other guys were just as important. I will repeat what I said above. The question should be if the team has 3 more rebounds not if Ayton did if you believe that was the difference. If you all want to use him as your punching bag go ahead. Nobody is stopping you either. You also have to assume even if we got those rebounds we scored on the ensuing possessions. Lot's of ifs.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Zero from Bridges was bigger. Fewer rebounds from other guys were just as important. I will repeat what I said above. The question should be if the team has 3 more rebounds not if Ayton did if you believe that was the difference. If you all want to use him as your punching bag go ahead. Nobody is stopping you either. You also have to assume even if we got those rebounds we scored on the ensuing possessions. Lot's of ifs.
Lol. You’re arguing about some mythical theoretical rebounds bridges could’ve had. I am actually talking about two actual rebounds that would’ve meant at least a 4 point swing and possibly as large as an 8-10 point swing if we scored on the end.
 

Covert Rain

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Lol. You’re arguing about some mythical theoretical rebounds bridges could’ve had. I am actually talking about two actual rebounds that would’ve meant at least a 4 point swing and possibly as large as an 8-10 point swing if we scored on the end.
So let me get this straight. You are arguing that Bridges getting zero which almost never happens is mythical BUT Ayton getting more (maybe you are not arguing that point like others)....but then "possibly" getting 8-10 point swing on the other end "if we scored on the other end" isn't?!?! OK.
 

Chaplin

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What is the disconnect here? This discussion is about Ayton and his lack of desire to get rebounds, preventing offensive rebounds and potential scores -- which happened a lot in that game. There is no disputing that.

Resorting to whataboutism with Bridges does nothing to the conversation. I actually agree that we also need Bridges to do a better job on the boards, but rebounding isn't his specialty. It is for Ayton. It's not really about the # of rebounds, its the aggressiveness he displayed to get or not get rebounds, and there were several times where he simply didn't try to get them.

But yes, there is easily a high potential for point swings, even on a single rebound.
 

Covert Rain

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What is the disconnect here? This discussion is about Ayton and his lack of desire to get rebounds, preventing offensive rebounds and potential scores -- which happened a lot in that game. There is no disputing that.

Resorting to whataboutism with Bridges does nothing to the conversation. I actually agree that we also need Bridges to do a better job on the boards, but rebounding isn't his specialty. It is for Ayton. It's not really about the # of rebounds, its the aggressiveness he displayed to get or not get rebounds, and there were several times where he simply didn't try to get them.

But yes, there is easily a high potential for point swings, even on a single rebound.
Yes and I am saying singling out Ayton for this loss is stupid. It's only about Ayton because that's what you are making it. Have at it. I am checking out. You want to keep punching be my guest.
 

Chaplin

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Yes and I am saying singling out Ayton for this loss is stupid. It's only about Ayton because that's what you are making it. Have at it. I am checking out. You want to keep punching be my guest.
He's only singled out because he's who the discussion is about. You are accusing us of ignoring the rest of the issues, when that isn't the case. Bridges didn't get rebounds, and he didn't try to get any rebounds, but it wasn't for lack of effort. Ayton was.
 

Suns_fan69

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So, both of these things can be true:

Bridges had a poor rebounding game and gave away points
Ayton had a poor rebounding game and gave away points

In fact, it is true:

It just so happens that Ayton's were at the end of the game when there is both more at stake and less time to recover from it.
 

Chaplin

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So, both of these things can be true:

Bridges had a poor rebounding game and gave away points
Ayton had a poor rebounding game and gave away points

In fact, it is true:

It just so happens that Ayton's were at the end of the game when there is both more at stake and less time to recover from it.
Yes, and it is very apparent that he wasn't trying in several instances. That's the main beef we have with him.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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So let me get this straight. You are arguing that Bridges getting zero which almost never happens is mythical BUT Ayton getting more (maybe you are not arguing that point like others)....but then "possibly" getting 8-10 point swing on the other end "if we scored on the other end" isn't?!?! OK.
No. I’m arguing that we have no idea what bridges additional rebounds would’ve been. Maybe he would’ve grabbed one that Ayton grabbed. But we DO know what happens if Ayton grabs those two rebounds . . . no 4 second chance points. I’m talking about something real. You’re talking about complete conjecture.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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He's only singled out because he's who the discussion is about. You are accusing us of ignoring the rest of the issues, when that isn't the case. Bridges didn't get rebounds, and he didn't try to get any rebounds, but it wasn't for lack of effort. Ayton was.
Yup. This. Yup
 

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