Suns at Lakers 3-22-11

Chaplin

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Don't be such a Gortat Homer.:p
I see your point, Gortat keeps that second unit relevant at times when it is pretty bad. But my thing is Lopez would still be spending his time against a scrub style center, maybe even allowing him to produce. And we usually have a good lead, or climb back in the game after Nash /Frye/Gorta/Studley and who ever is hot do their thing.

As much as I hate to ask, but do you really think Lopez would produce against anybody? He's better than Siler, but not by much. But we need 2 centers. I'm sure even BC would agree that having Frye as a backup Center is a bad move--and Warrick certainly can't do it. We have Lopez and Gortat and we have to deal with that. Gentry opts to start Lopez but give 40 minutes a game to Gortat. I don't have a problem with that because like I said, starting Lopez versus Gortat doesn't make a difference in the final outcome of the game.
 

Cheesebeef

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You know the funny thing is I don't disagree with you on a lot of this. I'm routing for the team to win but if we lose eh no big deal. Knowing our luck we win the lottery in a year no big players come out due to the lockout.

I'm just sick of hearing how Gortat is the greatest player in the NBA ever and have to hear what BC found while looking through his trash this morning. Seriously its become so annoying that this board is becoming unreadable.

dude... what do you expect? he's pretty much the first legit C this has had in... well... EVER and he's sitting behind a guy who's such a stiff that Chris Kaman's gimpy ass can easily block his dunk attempts. Whether it's right or wrong, whatever the reason is, it's hard for me to see how you can't see where people are coming from. I mean... Robin's been awful all season and while, yes, you've said that disrupting the flow right now could hurt the team, but you could also argue that had they made the move months ago, it could have helped them.

and bottom line... compared to Lopez, Gortat LOOKS like the greatest player in the NBA. I mean, he's just that bad and gortat actually is pretty darn good. and you're use of hyperbole in the conversation probably doesn't help matters. it only pours gasoline on the fire imo.
 

Evil Ash

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Don't be such a Gortat Homer.:p
I see your point, Gortat keeps that second unit relevant at times when it is pretty bad. But my thing is Lopez would still be spending his time against a scrub style center, maybe even allowing him to produce. And we usually have a good lead, or climb back in the game after Nash /Frye/Gorta/Studley and who ever is hot do their thing.

Maybe, maybe not. Not all good centers get a large break and we can't just wait for them to make a move (if Gortat's well being is what you're really after).

For example Howard plays a ton of mins. Do we just keep waiting and hoping that he gets substituted? Thats not a good coaching strategy
 

goldseraph

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Amazing that a few of you guys would tank the rest of the way to get a teens pick instead of 20s, rather than sneak into the playoffs and play the Spurs WHO WE SWEPT LAST YEAR. Obviously we aren't as good as last year, but Duncan is hurt now and Parker/Ginobili could easily get hurt too as usual. Maybe we sneak into the 2nd round and humiliate the Spurs. But, the hell with that, you guys are right - let's just get some entertaining losses the rest of the way and I'm sure that #14 pick in a weak draft is going to turn things around ..

PS Gortat has been awesome for us, and was great tonight. F the haters.
 
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desertdawg

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As much as I hate to ask, but do you really think Lopez would produce against anybody? He's better than Siler, but not by much. But we need 2 centers. I'm sure even BC would agree that having Frye as a backup Center is a bad move--and Warrick certainly can't do it. We have Lopez and Gortat and we have to deal with that. Gentry opts to start Lopez but give 40 minutes a game to Gortat. I don't have a problem with that because like I said, starting Lopez versus Gortat doesn't make a difference in the final outcome of the game.
Against some mid level talent I thin he might even regain his confidence. If he is playing well off the bench, he can stay in. But this coming from behind stuff has to go, this LOLopez getting the start is one of the reasons (not the only one ;)) we have to catch up. IMO
 

Cheesebeef

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Amazing that a few of you guys would rather tank the rest of the way to get a teens pick instead of 20s, rather than sneak into the playoffs and play the Spurs WHO WE SWEPT LAST YEAR.

there's no "we" in regards to this Suns team sweeping the spurs last year considering the three of the biggest keys in that series were Richardson, Amare and Goran... all of whom are gone.

Obviously we aren't as good as last year, but Duncan is hurt now and Parker/Ginobili could easily get hurt too as usual. Maybe we sneak into the 2nd round and humiliate the Spurs. But, the hell with that, you guys are right - let's just get some entertaining losses the rest of the way and I'm sure that #14 pick in a weak draft is going to turn things around ..

I'm hoping we get a miracle in the lotto. we've got a better shot at that then we do winning anything in the playoffs IMO so that's what i'm rooting for.
 

sunsfan88

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I agree with you about the Carter situation in the OTs. But is it enough to call for his head and his firing? No, of course not. So yes, Gentry shares a little blame for the loss, but not all the blame. And if he had done things a little different, would the outcome have been different? Perhaps, but that's not guaranteed. You can say the same thing about the phantom fouls called against Grant Hill and Nash's mistimed turnovers. Heck, you can even say it about Carter missing shots. If the opposite of any of those things happened, we could have won the game. But you can't say that the opposite of one of those things would DEFINITELY have won the game for us.

What's lost in all this badgering back and forth is that the Lakers actually ARE a good team. A damn good team. Even without Bynum.
Its not just this game. I have started saying "fire gentry" from a while back.

Every game he makes some kind of bone headed move. Every game! Instead of tryin to keep somethin that works, he changes it right now and then. The bench does good? Well guess what the starters are coming right back in. The opposing team goes with a small lineup, then he goes BIG, then when that doesn't work he just picks random players out of a hat and they go on the court.

Hill was spectacular today, you can't blame him for anything. And if anyone thinks that even .1% of the reason why we lost today was Nash's fault, then I seriously question your basketball knowledge. Yea you win as a team and lose as a team but Nash and Frye were the ONLY reasons we went triple OT with these guys.

We need a coach that is more strict and one that will enforce discipline. Too many times this season we come out looking unprepared from the start. They start blowing us out then we finally start playing. And no none of this happened in the Laker game but his poor substitutions in today's game just strengthened my desire of wanting him gone after this season.

Preparation = HC's responsibility
 
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desertdawg

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Maybe, maybe not. Not all good centers get a large break and we can't just wait for them to make a move (if Gortat's well being is what you're really after).

For example Howard plays a ton of mins. Do we just keep waiting and hoping that he gets substituted? Thats not a good coaching strategy
You really love to twist it around....
If we are playing the Magic, we should start our best defensive center against him. Sorry but your Lopez should ride the bench as much as possible and maybe play 10 minutes total if Howard is any where near the building. :D
 

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dude... what do you expect? he's pretty much the first legit C this has had in... well... EVER and he's sitting behind a guy who's such a stiff that Chris Kaman's gimpy ass can easily block his dunk attempts. Whether it's right or wrong, whatever the reason is, it's hard for me to see how you can't see where people are coming from. I mean... Robin's been awful all season and while, yes, you've said that disrupting the flow right now could hurt the team, but you could also argue that had they made the move months ago, it could have helped them.

and bottom line... compared to Lopez, Gortat LOOKS like the greatest player in the NBA. I mean, he's just that bad and gortat actually is pretty darn good. and you're use of hyperbole in the conversation probably doesn't help matters. it only pours gasoline on the fire imo.

Nah the fire has already reached inferno for some. Seriously read the last few pages of BC's "Why Gortat should start" thread - its stalkeriffic

I try not to get too much involved but the same crap keeps getting over and over and over again as though our opinion really matters just gets really annoying. Yes Gortat is a great player but the net result of him starting would be nothing. Thats all.

I'd rather talk about this teams needs or what realistic adjustments this team can make to go for a playoff run. Instead we have to hear about Gortat in every thread even if the subject matter has absolutely nothing to do with him. Its just really really annoying
 

BC867

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Starting Gortat means that Lopez would have to come in at the break, which would be bad for the bench. At least starting Lopez gives Gortat the ability to come in and pretty much stay in the rest of the half--both halves. Since we aren't that great at holding leads, how can you accept Robin Lopez being in the game with the rest of the bench players who need someone in the middle that can be productive?
Those are good points. You really made me stop and think again about why I want to see Gortat start.

(1) To maximize the time of our best Point Guard and best Center on the floor together, rather than losing it twelve minutes per game, then playing catchup each half.

(2) To keep our best Center refreshed for crunch time.

The only way I can see that happening is with Gortat playing alongside our best guys at each position, playing against the opposition's best guys and getting a breather in the 2nd and 4th quarters.

Would you think about that? If there is a way that we can continue to bring Gortat off the bench and not wear him out or minimize his time with the starters, I'm open to it. I just don't think it's possible.

If part of the thinking is having Nash anchor the first team and Gortat anchor the second team, I just don't think it works with the least powerful and most powerful players on the team.

It results more in a situation of divide and conquer.

Chap and everyone else, what do you think?
 

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You really love to twist it around....
If we are playing the Magic, we should start our best defensive center against him. Sorry but your Lopez should ride the bench as much as possible and maybe play 10 minutes total if Howard is any where near the building. :D

The last time we played the Magic, he did and we lost by 23. Thats a bad example for your point there.
 
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desertdawg

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The last time we played the Magic, he did and we lost by 23. Thats a bad example for your point there.
You brought up the Magic...:D I just said the logical choice would be to bench your boy and not start him. Did you watch that game? Howard destroyed Lopez. :D We started Lopez in that game, my point stands solid.
 

Evil Ash

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You brought up the Magic...:D I just said the logical choice would be to bench your boy and not start him. Did you watch that game? Howard destroyed Lopez. :D We started Lopez in that game, my point stands solid.

No it doesn't. You're making the point that if Gortat started it would have made a major impact and that we should only play Lopez against backup Cs.

If the backup C plays no mins for the other team wouldn't Gortat be exhausted anyway? We can't wait until the other coach makes a move if Gortat's well being is really what you're after.

We lost that game for a variety of reasons not just that lopez was pwned by Howard. Although that didn't help matters at all.
 
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desertdawg

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No it doesn't. You're making the point that if Gortat started it would have made a major impact and that we should only play Lopez against backup Cs.

If the backup C plays no mins for the other team wouldn't Gortat be exhausted anyway? We can't wait until the other coach makes a move if Gortat's well being is really what you're after.

We lost that game for a variety of reasons not just that lopez was pwned by Howard. Although that didn't help matters at all.
Wow, again I never said that. ;) It's too late for me to go there bro. I gotta call it a night. :) You got half of it right, Lopez should only play back up centers until he gets his game back.
 

BC867

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If the backup C plays no mins for the other team wouldn't Gortat be exhausted anyway?.
Huh? That's highly unlikely.

But even in that scenario, their starting Center who plays all 48 minutes would be just as drained as Gortat.

The reality is that starting Centers don't play 48 minutes every game. When their backup comes in, so should our backup. When their starter returns, so should ours.

Plus, as I have been trying to get some of you to respond to, it would tend to maximize Gortat's time on the floor with Nash. We know that for 12 minutes each game, that's not happening. That's a quarter of each game.
 

Evil Ash

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Huh? That's highly unlikely.

But even in that scenario, their starting Center who plays all 48 minutes would be just as drained as Gortat.

The reality is that starting Centers don't play 48 minutes every game. When their backup comes in, so should our backup. When their starter returns, so should ours.

Plus, as I have been trying to get some of you to respond to, it would tend to maximize Gortat's time on the floor with Nash. We know that for 12 minutes each game, that's not happening. That's a quarter of each game.

You can't coach entirely based on what the other coach is doing. People on here have bitched about Gentry doing just that and now you want him to specifically do that? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm fine with Gortat starting but I understand why Gentry keeps things the way there are. There is simply no time for the players to adjust and we are playing well with things as they are. 14-5 in our last 19 games with our starting unit fully intact is nothing to sneeze at.
 

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I just watched the game on league pass and wanted to give props to the Suns for a good game against a very good (but not great) team. I was impressed with Frye and I can see that Gortat is a solid C. Tough loss of course. If the refs would have called this game in a neutral way the Suns would have won it, but that's just the way it is when you meet the Fakers. I assure you that it's the same for the Spurs.

Also want to give props to the good posters on this thread. (The ones who posted before that Charlie Chaplin guy stumbled in). It's nice to see posters who actually watch the game, understand it, enjoy it, and care about their own team. Good luck to you in the next game.
 

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Wow, looks like it was a very exciting game. Frye has been on fire lately and Nash seems to find his shots back.

I thought for sure we were going to lose but giving Lakers 3OTs thriller is better than getting a blow out. I bet many of you thought Suns were done during 3rd quarter.
 

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About whole discussion here about starting Gortat over Lopez...

I think that it is obvious NOW that Gortat should start after few first games after trade. But IMHO now it is too late to mess with team chemistry. They are not playing bad games, despite of the fact that Lopez usually lacks on D and team do not benefit as much from Nash P&R plays early in the game. If Suns want a shot to playoffs then they should leave roster alone now and try their best the way it is now.

I just hope that from the next year Gortat will be Suns starting C and Lopez will develop nicely aganist other backup C's. I simply can't see how he can benefit e.g. from being destroyed by Howard.


Now what i wanted to say about last game... I can't understand why Suns are forcing 3's while having a ball with some time on the clock while they are short by 1 or when it is tie game. I don't get it. OK, lets burn some time but lets play P&R for a bucket/foul or even contested 15ft shot - It is more likely to happen than unnecessary, contested 3 from about 30ft...
 
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elindholm

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The front office knows that they screwed up the roster and Gentry is doing the best he can with this mess. Stein did an entire piece on who was on the hot seat even marginally so it was one third of the league. Want to guess who wasn't on there? Alvin friggin Gentry

There are only 3 people here really calling for Gentry's head - you, BC, sunsfan88. What do you all have in common? Complete and utter Gortat homers

LOL, love it.
 

jagu

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I actually called for his head once. I don't think his in-game management is all that good. I like that players listen to him, he has a lot of good qualities. If your looking for championships, I don't know if he can do it. Of course, who cares, only big market teams win in the NBA anyway.
 

elindholm

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If the refs would have called this game in a neutral way the Suns would have won it, but that's just the way it is when you meet the Fakers. I assure you that it's the same for the Spurs.

Yes, of course we already know that the referees favor the Spurs over the Suns. :rolleyes:
 

D-Dogg

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I just watched the game on league pass and wanted to give props to the Suns for a good game against a very good (but not great) team.

That "not great" team will whoop your Spurs in the playoffs.

Perhaps you were daydreaming about Splitter and didn't notice that Bynum wasn't playing last night. :shrug:
 

D-Dogg

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That was one hell of an exciting game. Lakers/Suns always seems to be a fun game, and it rarely has any sniff of how on/off either team is that year. They simply bring it. The Lakers have a tendancy to give open looks from three off of their defensive rotations, and the Suns can light up the three ball like no other team out there. Makes for some wild games.

Last night though, was a joy for a basketball fan (especially a Laker fan, but a basketball fan in general). Kobe shooting ridiculous shots and great passes en route to a near triple double. Nash with 20 assists on some of the best passing I've seen in awhile, and those three straight three pointers was vintage Nash "time to make something happen." Frye was unstoppable. Great situational defense from the Lakers on traps and doubles to force turnovers. Countless huge clutch shots. Gortat making Lopez look for a real estate agent. Lamar proving why he's the best sixth man in the league - while the Laker bench proves why they NEED him coming off the bench. Grant Hill playing good D, and all these old guys going 50 minutes.

Huzzah, basketball.
 

jagu

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Lamar Odom being a sixth man is what is wrong with the NBA, the big market teams can easily stash away a starting caliber PF on the bench for $$$. NBA- where lack of parity happens.
 
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