Starting from the top, what are your true feelings about Bidwill, Keim, Kingsbury, and Kyler?

Chris_Sanders

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Bidwill - I have gotten to interact with him more than once. He really wants to be a man of the people. He wants to be one of the guys. He gives accessibility to Cardinals fans and jokes "I promise you you aren't having a beer with Jerry Jones."

Unfortunately he is the guy making 40k a year that wants to cover the bar tab for all his friends. In the moment it's cool but at the end he can't sustain it.

I believe his desire to win is more about dispelling his father's legacy than actually winning. He wouldn't care about the Super Bowl trophy as much as holding it in front of the camera.

Keim - He is the Al Bundy of GMs. He lives in those handful of great moves like a Polk High QB that once passed for 4 touchdowns while he sells.shoes.

He is the dominant personality to Bidwill's sycophancy.

Kingsbury - In year 1, Kingsbury hid his offense all preseason to the point that no one practiced it in a life game. The result was that the team looked incredibly unprepared against a woeful Lions team and the only chance they had was Kyler putting on some late game heroics. Horrible clock management led to a tie.

Fast forward to year 4 and it's THE SAME STUFF. It's excused by Micheal"s desire to be cool and accepted and Keim's desire to be the strongest personality in the room.

Murray -The hopes that all 3 of the flawed individuals above him are pinned on. Unfortunately he is woefully unable to be the Atlas holding up the Cardinals world.

While holding up that globe he would flinch and blame the tides. He was able to hold up the moon so obviously any issues with holding the world isn't his fault.

Even 2 of these personalities would sabotage an organization
 

Jetstream Green

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Michael wants to win and will spend to win but the fly in the ointment is Keim. Keim does not know how to draft and seems to overextend and twists the wants of his coaching staff. Kyler is an insane talent and we have seen what he can do when he's on but he does not have a stabilizing persona to control his swings, which leads to Kilff. Kliff would probably have more success with Mayfield and before you say when has Kliff shown to be a good OC, one has to only look at a few of the outings with McCoy to see that Kyler really does not run his true offense consistently... Kyler needs a domineering coach, and if that is too much for him, than it does not matter, and he will never be a reliable pro
 

BritCard

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BIDWILL has been living the millionaire lifestyle all of his life; like a royal, he was born into it and knows nothing else. The high life, so to speak, didn't prevent him from going to law school, practising, and later being instrumental in all that was needed to construct the new stadium. You are too dismissive by half, and if it was just about money and perks, his family could sell the franchise to the tune of billions. He'd still be invited to the best parties. You have no clue as to his true personal feelings about winning.

I really don't have too many issues with Keim and Co. and there's a Co. around him that people always neglect to mention tasked with bringing him the best advice before a decision is made.

I'm starting to sour on KK and have noted more and more that he uses 'we' (and I don't mean the royal 'we') to spread the blame. That's not leadership.

Kyler, I still like and believe in even though it can be frustrating at times.

Oh I agree on Mike. But being rich can get dull without a purpose and playing football daddy is a great way to spend your days. Never getting rid of the Bidwills.
 

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Bidwill - I like the guy and feel like he's done quite a bit to class up the organization. The only thing I dislike is that he kept Keim and Kliff. There's a few things that people could wish to be better with him, like a better influx of cash to the organization, but I can't fault him for that.

Keim - Talk about a fall from grace in my eyes. I used to think he was great, now I hope he trips in the mud and ruins his favorite pair of slacks. He's probably the biggest problem in this organization now. The lack of even slightly adequate drafting is just an embarrassment. Year after year we get nothing from our draft picks. Even his trades are becoming questionable. Hollywood Brown for a first just doesn't make sense, IMO. Outside of his abysmal performance at GM, that DUI really gets to me. Not because I'm even that hard over about DUIs, but because I don't understand how stupid you can be to qualify for an extreme DUI and get in the car on 4th of July, in Arizona. DUI laws there are like the strictest in the nation, you're a high profile public figure, and you don't have the wherewithal to call a car? I don't even make a tenth of what he makes and I take an Uber before I even go out on weekends like this, even if I don't plan on drinking much. Anyways, it just makes me question his judgement in life, not just football. we need fresh blood from outside of the organization.

Kliff - My buddies all assume I would like this guy because we're similar personalities. But I'm not a football coach, and I don't think Kliff should be a HC in the NFL. For a while, I thought maybe he could be a good OC, but his playcalling has been atrocious. The lack of motion, the useless screens, the lack of creativity... ugh. And that's not to mention his ridiculous game management choices and needless risk on 4th downs on the wrong side of the field. The guy just doesn't seem to hold players accountable, and discipline just isn't there with this team. I don't want him as our coach anymore, and think he was a terrible hire from the start.

Kyler - I bet everyone thinks I'll go off on the kid, but I don't totally blame him for what I think is a crap situation. I don't think he ever really wanted to play for Kliff, I don't think his style meshes with Kliff, and I think a lot of other coaches could smack some sense into him to make him a better QB. He has some dynamite athletic traits and makes me go wow multiple times a year. But his leadership style isn't there for me, I really think he doesn't spend enough time with film, and he looks like he plays simultaneously scared and unhappy. It would be tantalizing to see him with another coach that would call him on his ******** and get in his face a little. It might backfire, it might turn him into an elite player. Sadly, I think by the time we get a new coach, his athletic skills will have dulled and we won't ever see what he might have been.

I think the guy is a Jameis Winston/Michael Vick without the off-field shenanigans. Talented enough to make you think he's the next big thing, but just never someone who will put it together to be a consistent winner or top QB in the league.
 

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I don't believe that for one second. I think he wants to be competitive with all of his being. He won't splash around the cash or make the tough decisions to go from wanting to be competitive to actually being competitive consistently.
So he doesn't want to be competitive with all of his being.
 

ASUCHRIS

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BIDWILL You have no clue as to his true personal feelings about winning.
I don't care about his personal feelings, I care about his results. There are teams that truly care about winning, no matter what. The Cardinals aint that team, and likely never will be under the Bidwill family.

In the end, Michael isn't that much different than Dollar Bill. Neither should own a football team, and the only reason they do is nepotism.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Steve Keim - He's a league-average GM
Definitely not, and he has the track record to prove it. You honestly believe half the GM's out there are worse than Keim? What does he do well?

Trades - made a couple decent ones
Draft - inarguably one of the worst in the NFL
FA - mostly awful

Basically half the team will be need to be replaced after the season, and players out the door all hate him.

This is a league average GM? Not a chance.
 

Solar7

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Comparing Vick to Jameis is quite disrespectful to Vick. At least at his peak.
How so? Neither won anything of significance.

Jameis has much better passing statistics, at that. He absolutely destroys him in yardage, completion percentage, and passing TDs.
 

Shane

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How so? Neither won anything of significance.

Jameis has much better passing statistics, at that. He absolutely destroys him in yardage, completion percentage, and passing TDs.
Ya the only thing Vick was ever really truly special at was running.
 

DVontel

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How so? Neither won anything of significance.

Jameis has much better passing statistics, at that. He absolutely destroys him in yardage, completion percentage, and passing TDs.
Neither has Rivers, but you love Rivers, but that’s not my point.

I’d argue Vick was better because of his generational running & his ability to change a game because of that. Look at the two eras as well. Vick going into Lambeau & putting the team on his back is still better than whatever Jameis has done with REALLY good WR talent in his career. Vick finally gets paired with a great HC/offensive genius & he unleashes Vick to a ceiling we really never seen before. Jameis got paired with a good HC/offensive playcaller in Arians & remained the same QB he has always been.

I always wish Vick & Reid got together a lot sooner than they did.
 

kerouac9

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Definitely not, and he has the track record to prove it. You honestly believe half the GM's out there are worse than Keim? What does he do well?

Trades - made a couple decent ones
Draft - inarguably one of the worst in the NFL
FA - mostly awful

Basically half the team will be need to be replaced after the season, and players out the door all hate him.

This is a league average GM? Not a chance.
Yeah kinda.

There are maybe five exceptional GMs, five terrible GMs, and 22 guys who are interchangeable. Keim isn’t spending draft picks on punters, so he’s already somewhere in that middle group.

There’s too much randomness in the draft to be outstanding year after year. Where I fault Keim is he has no vision or philosophy on what he wants this team to be except recreating Dansby and Washington and that’s silly.
 

Solar7

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Neither has Rivers, but you love Rivers, but that’s not my point.

I’d argue Vick was better because of his generational running & his ability to change a game because of that. Look at the two eras as well. Vick going into Lambeau & putting the team on his back is still better than whatever Jameis has done with REALLY good WR talent in his career. Vick finally gets paired with a great HC/offensive genius & he unleashes Vick to a ceiling we really never seen before. Jameis got paired with a good HC/offensive playcaller in Arians & remained the same QB he has always been.

I always wish Vick & Reid got together a lot sooner than they did.
Rivers has multiple 10+ win seasons under his belt, and went to the playoffs 7 times in his career, with 12 games started. He's won a ton more than Winston or Vick. Sure, he had some bad beats, but to say he hasn't won anything in the same breath as those two guys is an odd take.

Vick's win in Lambeau was impressive, but he never really put the team on his back again. Outside of one season, every time Vick went to the playoffs, he did so on the back of 8 win seasons. It's just not that impressive from a winning standpoint. Don't get me wrong, he was tantalizing, but he really struggled as a passer. Even when paired with Reid, he only exceeded a 60% completion rate in one year, and only barely eclipsed 3,000 yards passing.

Heck, now that I look back at the numbers, I might be doing Kyler a disservice by comparing him to Vick.
 

football karma

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Mike B: I know he wants to win, but not enough to hire an outsider to be a GM. As a result, I think there is too much group think on evaluating talent. I think he mostly stays out of football stuff -- but i think he puts his thumb on the scale every so often -- like "Steve, we need JJ Watt!" (pure speculation by me).

Keim: Espouses a philosophy that you have to draft premium positions in QB, Pass Rush, CB and LT and then doesn't follow that philosophy.

Kliff: I fault Kliff for not having / instilling an offensive vision / persona for the team. I can't describe it in one sentence like i can for Shanahan, McVay or even Pete Carrol.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Whenever you feel down about the Cardinals, just pull this picture up and you'll feel a little better.

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oaken1

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Mike Bidwill
I like Mike and unlike many of you folks I have always appreciated that the Cardinals are not "win at any cost"

it matters how you win.

Stevie Keim
Average GM.... maybe a below average person. Like many of you I question the morality and integrity of a man who is fool enough to get multiple DUI's in his life. One is a mistake...2 is either stupidity or arrogance.

Kyler Murray
This kid is an all world physical talent. He throws maybe the finest deep ball I have ever seen.
But between the ears?? Just dont know. Immature? Lazy? Hampered by piss poor coaching? He has moments, hell, entire quarters where you say, "if the kid plays like this all the time I can see multiple Lombardis in his future"
but he doesnt play like that all the time and we may never know why.

so thats my thoughts. But your thread title asked for me feelins...

They are Cardinals

I love the **** outta these guys
 

Dayman

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Definitely not, and he has the track record to prove it. You honestly believe half the GM's out there are worse than Keim? What does he do well?

Trades - made a couple decent ones
Draft - inarguably one of the worst in the NFL
FA - mostly awful

Basically half the team will be need to be replaced after the season, and players out the door all hate him.

This is a league average GM? Not a chance.
1 playoff victory in 9 years (and likely 10 years after this season) would be a fireable offense for most teams. Too bad we aren't most teams.

Also

Draft - 6 of his last 7 drafts have produced a total of 1 impact player (Budda). The 2019 Draft was strong, but it seems like a huge outlier in his drafting record. His alleged BPA philosophy is just a justification for drafting whomever he wants, whenever he wants without any regard for sensible roster construction.

Trades
The trades for Carson, Chandler and Dhop were obviously great. The others have been average at best, but he doesn't have an equivalent of trading for Kevin Kolb, so his overall trade track record is still very solid.

Free Agents
Those early "Keim Time" signings are still carrying him, but his free agent success has been in a freefall for years. It's another symptom of simply being out of touch with the current league. He still lives in the time when he was Executive of the Year and guys like AJ Green and JJ Watt were elite.

Re-signing
Some good and some bad. Gives out a lot of contracts that are top 10 at their position. Rarely signs guys at a bargain early. Has recently overpaid for vets with declining production.

Overall, I can't see how he isn't a bottom 10 GM at absolute best. He is good at adding pieces to an established team but seems clueless when it comes to building a team from the ground up.
 

Red on White

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The foursome seem pretty comfortable with each other. Add Vance to make five.

Friendly.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of friction in the organisation. Not many blow ups or walk outs, controversies, rumours of lost lockerooms etc. Happy families. All on the same page.

There's something to like about the culture in terms of the lack of soap opera/backstabbing stuff. Eg

Wilks obviously struggled but was pretty humble about things. Took responsibility, lost his job but never aimed blame arrows at the higher ups, or his coaching staff or the players. Dismal year but seemed a decent human being. Compare that to Jacksonville or a few other teams that have burned to the ground recently.

However I'm not sure the culture is here to deliver strong results consistently. There needs to be a certain level of friction.

If these five people are not challenging each other, or asking more of each other, or putting the crunch on each other for certain deliverables then where does the accountability lie? How are we getting better? Respect is good but there needs to be some urgency and drive too.

It seems like our guys don't demand more of each other because that opens the door for people to demand more of them in return.

I also think people who have very little football nous/credibility (eg Bidwill) tend to surround themselves with average types that they are on level pegging with so they can feel like peers. They don't like people who are at a higher level because they feel threatened.

A genuine football guru wouldn't waste a second chatting football with Bidwill to get his thoughts and opinions whereas Keim & Kliff are probably in his office half the day.

A clueless moneybags owner is fine as long as he knows he is clueless, appoints people who know their s***, resources them and let's them do their thing.

Seems like we're happy being competitive and maybe sneaking into the playoffs sometimes.
 

TheCardFan

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Who would you have selected in 2019 instead of KK? It's all in the search history if you forgot.

 

Chris_Sanders

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Who would you have selected in 2019 instead of KK? It's all in the search history if you forgot.


Joe Lombardi would have been high on my list
 

BritCard

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Mike B: I know he wants to win, but not enough to hire an outsider to be a GM. As a result, I think there is too much group think on evaluating talent. I think he mostly stays out of football stuff -- but i think he puts his thumb on the scale every so often -- like "Steve, we need JJ Watt!" (pure speculation by me).

Keim: Espouses a philosophy that you have to draft premium positions in QB, Pass Rush, CB and LT and then doesn't follow that philosophy.

Kliff: I fault Kliff for not having / instilling an offensive vision / persona for the team. I can't describe it in one sentence like i can for Shanahan, McVay or even Pete Carrol.

How does he stay out of football stuff? He hired an outside consultant in the search for Kliff and thanked both Acorsi and A-Dub to open the press conference.

He still has Keim's balls in a jar on his shelf.

He's in all the draft meetings, he's a major part of the draft room sat right next to Keim and actively involved in the process. He's a major component in every HC hire. Word is that Wilks was his choice.

He's the worse kind of boss. A meddler. Doesn't go all in enough to take responsibility, but does just enough to put his thumb on the scale without having to take any blame.

He's a great guy. I like him personally. But he's exactly what you don't need as an owner. I don't envy the position Keim finds himself in sometimes.
 

TRW

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Bidwill-inherited team, seems to only put "yes men" in key positions, likes the money he makes and is happy with whatever results happen win OR lose.
Keim-a few good trades trumped by poor draft and free agent signings.
Kingsbury-over his head as HC, over hyped as an "offensive guru", probably gone in 2 more years.
Murray-otherworldly physical talent offset by diminutive size and low football IQ. Probably a mistake giving him the sack they did. But, not my money. Not a franchise QB IMO.

I have been a Cardinal fan since 1966 or so. The one constant is the ownership, which is not going to change in my lifetime I don't think. It seems they can put together a good team for 3 or 4 years then slip back to mediocrity and putridness for a decade. Michael is a bit better than his dad but is still pretty Bidwillian in running the franchise.

They are the home team and I will always root for them but I just can't be lollipops and roses when it is a crap sandwich and stinkweed being offered.
 

BullheadCardFan

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I have been a Cardinal fan since 1966 or so. The one constant is the ownership, which is not going to change in my lifetime I don't think. It seems they can put together a good team for 3 or 4 years then slip back to mediocrity and putridness for a decade. Michael is a bit better than his dad but is still pretty Bidwillian in running the franchise.

They are the home team and I will always root for them but I just can't be lollipops and roses when it is a crap sandwich and stinkweed being offered.
Great word! :thumbup:
 

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