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BritCard

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a couple thoughts:

Kirk is a FA next year who has shown flashes but not consistency. Still a ?, so i dont let his presence alter my draft plans.

I also think that we dont always appreciate the tiers between players that can be greater than the rankings imply. Waddle might only be 10-14 overall spots higher than Bateman, but NFL teams might consider the gap to be very large.

and BTW: that is the only scenario where i would trade up: if i were convinced that Waddle is the next coming of Tyreek Hill....i.e. the gap between him and players available at 16 would be gigantic

But draft position doesn't mean anything. At best it's a guess based on production, traits, measurables etc with Waddle that's probably more than most considering he doesn't have a tonne of college yards, was injured last year and hasn't held a pro day.

Just because Waddle is predicted to go higher doesn't mean he will be a better player than Bateman. Justin Jefferson was the 4th ranked WR last year but was the best of the bunch. Hollywood Brown was 2nd in his class but has been poor, while Deebo was 5th and been good.
 

Russ Smith

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Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?


not me because look who else was on the roster? it wasn't that he can't play outside, it was that they had 3 first round picks on the outside already IMO.

He was better in the slot than any of them so he played there./

I'm a huge Waddle guy so I'm biased but I really have 2 fears on him, that the injury might not be fully healed, I hated that he played in the bowl game he was clearly hobbling. And that if he's as good as I think he is, he might a 1 year wonder punt returner who's then so good you can't risk injury, much like PP was. I hate having a guy that lethal and telling him fair catch or run out of bounds don't take big hits.
 

Russ Smith

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On the 40 time stuff there's an article out there right now that says in talking to "scouts"(they don't name them), the people that had access to the GPS data will tell you that Waddle was the fastest Wr in the country last year before he got hurt. I don't think they mean EVERY player but the top ones, he was the fastest. GPS is the tech they use to measure top end speed, average speed they have it for games and practices but they don't share it with everyone and not every school has it. But the people that apparently have access to it from Bama say Waddle is the fastest guy out there.

That's why i say my concern is will the ankle be healed, not what's his 40 time. if it's not healed yeah it's a problem, if it is, he's PLENTY fast.

he's one of those guys who accelerates so quickly he's got an extra gear too you think he's wide open throttle and suddenly he guns it and he's gone.

What I love about him is he's an instant impact as a punt returner, he can return KO's if you want too. That punt return against LSU was one of the best returns I've ever seen, the guy grabs his facemask turns his head he shakes free and then goes like 70 yards for a TD against and elite team that had NFL caliber guys on their special teams. When he busts it against Louisiana Lafayette ok maybe not the best competition, against LSU, Auburn etc, there are NFL fast guys on that field and he's going by them easily. He had a TD catch against Auburn I think last year where he outran the angle on 2 guys who will play in the NFL.

But as I said my concern is if he's as good at WR as I think he will be, you're going to get to a point where you say I don't want him returning kicks it's too risky, and then his value drops off some.

People compare him to Tyreek Hill to me he's closer to DeSean Jackson except much stronger and I think a more dedicated player. D Jax was great in his prime but he was never as good as he could have been if he'd been more dedicated IMO, everything I've seen Waddle has that killer instinct that Jackson never had
 

BritCard

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not me because look who else was on the roster? it wasn't that he can't play outside, it was that they had 3 first round picks on the outside already IMO.

He was better in the slot than any of them so he played there./

I'm a huge Waddle guy so I'm biased but I really have 2 fears on him, that the injury might not be fully healed, I hated that he played in the bowl game he was clearly hobbling. And that if he's as good as I think he is, he might a 1 year wonder punt returner who's then so good you can't risk injury, much like PP was. I hate having a guy that lethal and telling him fair catch or run out of bounds don't take big hits.

You may be right but if so why so little production in the snaps he has had outside? I'm not sure I want to spend a pick on a maybe when it's a strong WR class. Why not just get a guy you know can play outside?
 

football karma

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the Zaven Collins at #16 bandwagon has started

Gambo is talking about him now
 

Russ Smith

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You may be right but if so why so little production in the snaps he has had outside? I'm not sure I want to spend a pick on a maybe when it's a strong WR class. Why not just get a guy you know can play outside?


Not sure. I know it's not popular because they were both highly rated but Bama really only had 1 guy who IMO had an NFL arm at QB when he was there, Jalen Hurts, and he left. Tua was a great college player with great timing but he has a weak arm. Jones has a better arm than Tua but again if you watch the highlights he was underthrowing Waddle over and over

I can't remember who threw it I want to say Hurts but his true freshman year there's a play where the ball is clearly overthrown I mean it looks in the air like he has no chance. he not only caught it, he didn't even have to dive to get it he was reaching forward so much he lost his footing after the throw but that was the play where I thought this guy is amazing. The announcers were in shock they could not believe he tracked that ball down.

I guess the concern is Kyler is better outside than inside so if the WR can't kill you outside he's wasted. I just think Kyler is going to get better inside, and I think Waddle CAN play outside.

I think this year the plan is Nuk and AJ on the outside so if we take Waddle he's taking snaps away from Kirk and maybe some from Green outside.

I don't think he'll be there I keep seeing mocks of him in the top 10 and several have him ahead of Smith.


I have real concerns about Farley the injuries and then not playing at all last year I wonder if he'll be able to play as a rookie, but I suspect he's our guy or Collins as others said
 

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I'm fine with drafting him to play slot but the overall narrative here has been that Kirk should move inside permanently to play slot as he is better suited there and we need a WR2 to play outside if/when AJ Green goes or if Green is injured.

Waddle doesn't fit if that is the case.

And an argument can me made about why potentially have 2 slot guys in Kirk and Waddle and no good outside WR2?

I think Bateman can be a superb outside receiver in the NFL and you wouldn't need to trade up to get him, as you likely would with Waddle.

I think I would rather have Nuk, Kirk, Green, Bateman plus a 3rd round RB next year than Nuk, Kirk, Green, Waddle and no 3rd round pick next year (or potentially 2nd).
My guess.... the air raid traditionally runs four wide pretty often in which case it’s pretty easy to utilize an additional slot receiver... or “ inside “ receivers as they call’em

but I’m kinda with you on this.... we got our Michael Irvin.... our Jerry Rice.... we need our Alvin Harper.... our Clark.... we need another Anquan Boldin
Maybe Green fills the bill for now I dunno.... he was so mired in mediocrity in cincy I actually forgot he was still playing football.... but he was great in his prime and great players taper off more often than they fall off a cliff so maybe Green has a couple seasons left in him... we don’t need a thousand out of him.... 800 and 8 TDs would be enough to take some attention off Hopkins and I would consider it a fantastic season for him

but we need a young guy sooner rather than later.... I prefer a bigger guy outside 6’3”+ with 4.4 speed or better if we can get it.... don’t think a guy like that is available to us in this draft at 16 ..... if only we had drafted that other guy instead of Isabella....
 

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