Something occurred to me

Jetstream Green

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Actually, a long time ago as with anyone on this forum... do the Cardinals realize they have Aaron Donald in their division, and Hernandez along with a couple of late round draft picks is their solution? Just brilliant!
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DaHilg

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Lol completely agree.. including the murders row of pass rushers on our schedule this year. Literally 10 of our games are against probably the 10 best pass rushes in the NFL this season.
 

BurqueCardFan

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Same situation with the pass rush. They lose one of the most prolific pass rushers in the last decade and have zero back up plan. They don't sign a single outside free agent. They draft 2 third rounder flyers and call it good. Sounds about right for this front office.
 

PACardsFan

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Same situation with the pass rush. They lose one of the most prolific pass rushers in the last decade and have zero back up plan. They don't sign a single outside free agent. They draft 2 third rounder flyers and call it good. Sounds about right for this front office.
Let’s be honest. Although CJ was still disruptive last year, he was far from prolific. Do we need a veteran presence? Yes we do. But, it’s still May. After June 1st, we’ll see what happens.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Same situation with the pass rush. They lose one of the most prolific pass rushers in the last decade and have zero back up plan. They don't sign a single outside free agent. They draft 2 third rounder flyers and call it good. Sounds about right for this front office.
Those 2 3rd rounders are hardly flyers.
 

kerouac9

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Those 2 3rd rounders are hardly flyers.
I dunno, man. Look at our last decade's worth of third-rounders:

2020​
8​
72​
Josh Jones​
T​
Houston​
2019​
1​
65​
Zach Allen​
DE​
Boston College​
2018​
33​
97​
Mason Cole​
C​
Michigan​
2017​
34​
98​
Chad Williams​
WR​
Grambling State​
2016​
30​
92​
Brandon Williams​
DB​
Texas A&M​
2015​
22​
86​
David Johnson​
RB​
Northern Iowa​
2014​
20​
84​
Kareem Martin​
DE​
North Carolina​
2014​
27​
91​
John Brown​
WR​
Pittsburg State (KS)​
2013​
7​
69​
Tyrann Mathieu​
DB​
Louisiana State​
2012​
17​
80​
Jamell Fleming​
DB​
Oklahoma​
2011​
5​
69​
Robert Housler​
TE​
Florida Atlantic​
2010​
24​
88​
Andre Roberts​
WR​
Citadel​

Looking at that batting average and seeing that guys rarely become consistent contributors vs washouts and it's difficult to say that third rounders are much more than flyers.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Let’s be honest. Although CJ was still disruptive last year, he was far from prolific. Do we need a veteran presence? Yes we do. But, it’s still May. After June 1st, we’ll see what happens.
CJ looked to me like he's lost a step, still disruptive but nothing like what he was. There's no way he's worth what he got from the Raiders at his age now. The Cardinals would've been fools to pay that kind of money for him. I'm actually excited about Thomas & Sanders. Had it not been for his injury during his senior year at SDST, some believed Thomas could've been taken in the 1st round. Sanders has a serious burst & once he learns to harness it plus works on some moves with JJ we may have something? One can hope anyways.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I dunno, man. Look at our last decade's worth of third-rounders:

2020​
8​
72​
Josh Jones​
T​
Houston​
2019​
1​
65​
Zach Allen​
DE​
Boston College​
2018​
33​
97​
Mason Cole​
C​
Michigan​
2017​
34​
98​
Chad Williams​
WR​
Grambling State​
2016​
30​
92​
Brandon Williams​
DB​
Texas A&M​
2015​
22​
86​
David Johnson​
RB​
Northern Iowa​
2014​
20​
84​
Kareem Martin​
DE​
North Carolina​
2014​
27​
91​
John Brown​
WR​
Pittsburg State (KS)​
2013​
7​
69​
Tyrann Mathieu​
DB​
Louisiana State​
2012​
17​
80​
Jamell Fleming​
DB​
Oklahoma​
2011​
5​
69​
Robert Housler​
TE​
Florida Atlantic​
2010​
24​
88​
Andre Roberts​
WR​
Citadel​


Looking at that batting average and seeing that guys rarely become consistent contributors vs washouts and it's difficult to say that third rounders are much more than flyers.
Of 12 picks there were three studs (smoke, badger and DJ), that’s likely stellar. Robert’s, Cole and Allen have been-and remain-contributors. That’s actually overall a pretty good track record. I’d go so far as to state keim likely shines compared to contemporaries in the third round.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Of 12 picks there were three studs (smoke, badger and DJ), that’s likely stellar. Robert’s, Cole and Allen have been-and remain-contributors. That’s actually overall a pretty good track record. I’d go so far as to state keim likely shines compared to contemporaries in the third round.
Smoke as a stud? I would put him in the 2nd tier.

Keim's success drafting has always been in rounds 2 and 3.
 

kerouac9

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Of 12 picks there were three studs (smoke, badger and DJ), that’s likely stellar. Robert’s, Cole and Allen have been-and remain-contributors. That’s actually overall a pretty good track record. I’d go so far as to state keim likely shines compared to contemporaries in the third round.
Mason Cole was traded for a sixth-round pick. That's an admission of failure for a position that we'd absolutely struggled to fill.

I love Andre Roberts, but Keim didn't and he walked without a second contract with the team. Very similar with John Brown. He only had 21 receptions his final season here and wasn't invited back.

I agree about the Tyrann Matthieu and David Johnson, although DJ was traded in disgrace.

What I'm saying is that Keim's third rounders don't usually build "the belly of the team." They don't become consistent contributors and foundational players for your roster. They're usually shooting stars, which, IMO, is the definition of a flyer. Keim wants to take big swings with those picks; we'd probably be better off long-term if he got a bunch of B- prospects that you can re-sign so you don't have to dip into free agency every year.
 
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Jetstream Green

Jetstream Green

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Same situation with the pass rush. They lose one of the most prolific pass rushers in the last decade and have zero back up plan. They don't sign a single outside free agent. They draft 2 third rounder flyers and call it good. Sounds about right for this front office.
Now, I do not fault them for not signing a 'vet' solution towards Chandler Jones leaving. Let's face it, any pass rusher with legit worth is not going to be available on the free agent market. Jones is still relevant due to his pressures on the QB but does not get sacks at this juncture of his career which have defined his stud legacy and completely sucks at stopping the run while he's looking for sacks which elude him (hence, why the Raiders in classic Al Davis channeling 'look at me' mode, gave him money that the Cardinals would have been morons to offer at this stage in his career). The Cards took two guys in the early/mid rounds, good enough for now and they do have potential which is really all one can say for a draft choice... but the guard situation is completely inexcusable
 

dreamcastrocks

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Now, I do not fault them for not signing a 'vet' solution towards Chandler Jones leaving. Let's face it, any pass rusher with legit worth is not going to be available on the free agent market. Jones is still relevant due to his pressures on the QB but does not get sacks at this juncture of his career which have defined his stud legacy and completely sucks at stopping the run while he's looking for sacks which elude him (hence, why the Raiders in classic Al Davis channeling 'look at me' mode, gave him money that the Cardinals would have been morons to offer at this stage in his career). The Cards took two guys in the early/mid rounds, good enough for now and they do have potential which is really all one can say for a draft choice... but the guard situation is completely inexcusable
The problem is... like QBs, edge rushers usually have to be drafted in the first round to have a high degree of success in their career. We didn't get one of those this year and it was our biggest position need... I say this even when I like the Hollywood trade.
 
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Jetstream Green

Jetstream Green

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The problem is... like QBs, edge rushers usually have to be drafted in the first round to have a high degree of success in their career. We didn't get one of those this year and it was our biggest position need... I say this even when I like the Hollywood trade.
I agree, and likewise agree with Burque on the importance. Now, you really can generate sacks by committee which Vance showed he can do that one season without Chandler, though not an ideal situation... but guard and the OL, it is what it is and you do not have guys running in and out to spell a fluctuating entity because a OL to work is anything but that
 
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kerouac9

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For a third round pick you don’t consider his career to be studly? I do.
His career has been fine, but it doesn't sit on the same level as Honey Badger's. Again, if you don't earn a second contract, really difficult to qualify you as a stud.
 

Cheesebeef

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His career has been fine, but it doesn't sit on the same level as Honey Badger's. Again, if you don't earn a second contract, really difficult to qualify you as a stud.
I don’t believe the second contract thing isn’t the best argument specifically for the Cardinals considering we consistently lack the foresight or desire to get deals done with guys who deserve second contracts. That’s a point you’ve harped on with Keim repeatedly.
 

dreamcastrocks

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For a third round pick you don’t consider his career to be studly? I do.
I don't. Hasn't made a pro bowl, hasn't made him self even a solid #2 in the league, let alone a 1. He was a good draft pick, but definitely not a stud.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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His career has been fine, but it doesn't sit on the same level as Honey Badger's. Again, if you don't earn a second contract, really difficult to qualify you as a stud.
Earning a second with the same team or earning a second contract period? All the guys I named are legit NFL players who will have started multiple games. And even seasons, with us or another team. For third round picks that’s like 7 of 12. That’s better than expected.
 

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