Since the first rounders...

[AZCB34]

...are not going to sign the waiver under the Cards condition I have a question about the rookie camp in June. Can the Cards possibly not wait until the last minute to negotiate and just get these guys signed to their actual contract before that camp? Please? If you won't budge on the waiver deal, let's re-examine the attitude of waiting until one week before TC to actually try and get deals done.

Get those agents in here and start getting the deals done now so they can participate FULLY in the second minicamp and we can avoid all this nonsense.

I know it won't happen. I get the feeling the Cards prefer to wait and see where their picks will be slotted before jumping into the deep end and trying to swim.

 

[Russ Smith]

Precisely, we know the rookie pool amount, we know what they got last year at those spots, we know what Palmer got(irrelevant to us). Why not get with Pace and Johnson's agents and say let's get this deal done?

If the agents want to wait to see how the players above them sign we can't control that but I'm betting both guys would prefer to start the talks earlier rather than later.

 

[SECTION 11]

Not a friggin chance in hell. This is going to be a circus.
I'm completely blown away that they are in the same situation as last year. Coupled with the fact that Graves said they aren't modifying their contract structure and approach "very much" it's shaping up to be a freaking mess.

Hopefully this isn't the case.

 

[bratwurst]

Its against any Cardinal logic to start talks with a first round pick before a) all other picks are signed, and b) its less than a week to training camp.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Precisely, we know the rookie pool amount, we know what they got last year at those spots, we know what Palmer got(irrelevant to us). Why not get with Pace and Johnson's agents and say let's get this deal done?

If the agents want to wait to see how the players above them sign we can't control that but I'm betting both guys would prefer to start the talks earlier rather than later.

U hit it right on the head Russ!

Regardless of last years contracts you can pretty much guarantee that both of there agents are going to wait until all the players taken ahead of them have signed hoping to fall in line right behind them!

That way they know before hand if they are signing a low ball deal!

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Shane H
U hit it right on the head Russ!

Regardless of last years contracts you can pretty much guarantee that both of there agents are going to wait until all the players taken ahead of them have signed hoping to fall in line right behind them!

That way they know before hand if they are signing a low ball deal!

I guess if we never traded out of the 6 hole we would get our pick signed quicker. Heck, we have to wait for 16 other guys to sign instead of 5. (actually 15 and 4 since Palmer is a done deal).

This is going to drag out while the little wooden puppet keeps talking.

 

[pinnacle]

For starters....why don't the cardinals go out and offer the 2 1st round picks the exact offers the 17th and 18th picks received last year...exactly same...we know they will be up slightly this year...but we also know they will not take less. Unless rod graves is busy on the phone with the redskins (to trade for wilkinson and smoot) or trying to sign jamir miller..what the heck else has he go to do. What do we have to lose by doing this. The agents could come back with small modifications and they could be signed in a week.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by pinnacle
For starters....why don't the cardinals go out and offer the 2 1st round picks the exact offers the 17th and 18th picks received last year...exactly same...we know they will be up slightly this year...but we also know they will not take less. Unless rod graves is busy on the phone with the redskins (to trade for wilkinson and smoot) or trying to sign jamir miller..what the heck else has he go to do. What do we have to lose by doing this. The agents could come back with small modifications and they could be signed in a week.

Thats not true. Bryant waited and ended up having to take less then what the #12 pick got the year before correct?

The rookie pool has been capped by the NFL due to escalating rookie salaries so raises dont happen. Thats why teams are using loopoles to get around it ike bonuses and escalators something we know Bidwill wont do!

 

[SECTION 11]

I think this whole thing is ********.
Rod Graves is really pissing me off lately.

 

[Sack Daddy]

The World can be a lonely place. Just ask Rod.

 

[Sack Daddy]

Constant torment is the Cards' fan badge of honor.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I think this whole thing is ********.
Rod Graves is really pissing me off lately.

What about this thread is making you pissed off at Rod???

 

[pinnacle]

shane..I do know about bryant..did he make less because he missed so much time (training camp, preseason, etc.)? Heck..I do not care..offer them whatever the 20th and 21st picks got last year...I know..maybe we have already made them offers..but I seriously doubt it...lets get rolling!

And get on the phone and trade for wilkinson, smoot and sign jamir miller..and get extensions to the guys I mentioned in a previous thread..If you do all of the is...

defense starters - pretty much signed long terms:
wilson and jackson at safety
barrett, smoot and starks at corner
wilkinson and bryant in the middle
some comination of pace, johnson, kvb and miller at ends
outside linebackers: thompson, fisher, miller, darling
middle linebacker - mckinnon, hayes, darling (heard he plays both)

miller would be at the outside on the end..hear he gained weight to play end.

tell me where the holes are in the above defense? Not that many (linebackers could be upgraded)...

On offense..lets assume our young receivers and draft picks come thru (if not ..get a veteran).
Smith and shipp at RB
jones at TE
Oline is set - except at center
fullback - set with hodgins..need better backup.

I like blake at qb..but I know many do not..I think he is good. I have tape of him for 2 seasons and he looks good to me...jury is out..but I think he is underated...I think kordell and jake are terrible..so blake was my preference..whoever does not pan out..draft in round 1 and 2 next year..

 

[Sack Daddy]

Whatever happens, we do not want Fred Smoot. No way!!!!

 

[pinnacle]

I have watched him play...too small..but I thought he covered ok and seems to find himself in the right place. I want him as a backup to barrett and starks..one or both will get hurt..and we will have hill, rhinehard and stone. I think smoot is an upgrade over all three.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Shane H
What about this thread is making you pissed off at Rod???

The injury waiver situation would not be an issue whatsoever if they didn't take the stance that they won't let the other 31 teams dictate their injury waiver policy, when in reality that's what the other 31 teams collectively have accepted as standard business practice, accepted nationally by the NFLPA, agents and owners.

That in and of itself is perhaps not too bad. When coupled with the next two items, it borders on rediculous and retroactive to a undeniable fault.

He's the team's primary contract negotiator, and of course our contracts are completed during the season entirely too often.

I give him credit for recently making extensions while the contract is active. That's an improvement. But, the detriment caused by first round holdouts clearly outweighs that. It hurts player development, further sours the NFLPA's perception of the Cardinals way of doing business, which I guarantee creates the perception among agents that they are always negotiating from a position of stregnth when dealing with the Cardinals because of their "antiquated business practices," and it no doubt leaves a bad taste in the players mouths.

Not to mention the foot dragging. It scewed us with Robinson.

 

[Sack Daddy]

The problems (plural) with Smoot, are all above the shoulders.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by pinnacle
For starters....why don't the cardinals go out and offer the 2 1st round picks the exact offers the 17th and 18th picks received last year...exactly same...we know they will be up slightly this year...but we also know they will not take less. Unless rod graves is busy on the phone with the redskins (to trade for wilkinson and smoot) or trying to sign jamir miller..what the heck else has he go to do. What do we have to lose by doing this. The agents could come back with small modifications and they could be signed in a week.

he's busy. busy waiting to call fa's that we could really use until they sign with another team. that's busy man! BUSY!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
The injury waiver situation would not be an issue whatsoever if they didn't take the stance that they won't let the other 31 teams dictate their injury waiver policy, when in reality that's what the other 31 teams collectively have accepted as standard business practice, accepted nationally by the NFLPA, agents and owners.

That in and of itself is perhaps not too bad. When coupled with the next two items, it borders on rediculous and retroactive to a undeniable fault.

He's the team's primary contract negotiator, and of course our contracts are completed during the season entirely too often.

I give him credit for recently making extensions while the contract is active. That's an improvement. But, the detriment caused by first round holdouts clearly outweighs that. It hurts player development, further sours the NFLPA's perception of the Cardinals way of doing business, which I guarantee creates the perception among agents that they are always negotiating from a position of stregnth when dealing with the Cardinals because of their "antiquated business practices," and it no doubt leaves a bad taste in the players mouths.

Not to mention the foot dragging. It scewed us with Robinson.

Thats all well and good but you cant blame Rod knowing that these players agents arent going to talk seriously to the team until the player drafted in front of them start falling into place!

Its a smart move for the agents and I cant blame them thats not Rods fault!

 

[Sack Daddy]

Sec 11, I agree with what you're saying. But, I think Robinson used the Cards to drum up potential interest. Saying, if they make me an offer they can have me. Translation-If anyone else out there is interested, I'll be off the market, so call me soon.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Shane H
Thats all well and good but you cant blame Rod knowing that these players agents arent going to talk seriously to the team until the player drafted in front of them start falling into place!

Its a smart move for the agents and I cant blame them thats not Rods fault!

I agree about waiting on the other signings, it makes sense.
But every year there is a small percentage of holdouts, and every year we are most likely in that group. The trend is there, and it doesn't appear to be changing with today's developments.

If 95% of the time you are in the 5% minority of an issue that is to your own detriment on multiple levels, then something is wrong.


And while all of the manuevering is happening with respect to contracts, 31 out of 32 teams have their first round picks participating in team drills.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Sack Daddy
Sec 11, I agree with what you're saying. But, I think Robinson used the Cards to drum up potential interest. Saying, if they make me an offer they can have me. Translation-If anyone else out there is interested, I'll be off the market, so call me soon.

That's one possibility.

Taking Robinson at his word that he was ready to sign here and cancel any other visits resets the possibility that Graves inability to act with any sense of urgency cost him a #1 WR that Graves himself said would greatly help the team.

 

[Sack Daddy]

The Cards and holdouts rank up there with death and taxes.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I agree about waiting on the other signings, it makes sense.
But every year there is a small percentage of holdouts, and every year we are most likely in that group. The trend is there, and it doesn't appear to be changing with today's developments.

If 95% of the time you are in the 5% minority of an issue that is to your own detriment on multiple levels, then something is wrong.


And while all of the manuevering is happening with respect to contracts, 31 out of 32 teams have their first round picks participating in team drills.

Well I cant say Im pissed about the injury waiver because Im on the teams side on that issue I have made that clear!

But as far as being signed on time for camp? No reason to be pissed now camp is stilll 3 months away if they arent there come July 25(i think) Then be pissed i will be too!

 

[pinnacle]

Personally..I think robinson would have signed here..if we would have made him an offer the day he was here. He came here first..he stuck around some extra time trying to get an offer..and from what I read he played on the same college team as sullivans son at south carolina (I think they were both receivers)...so I think if we would have given him a one year deal at $1 mil - he would have taken in. But...when we drafted receivers in rd 1 and 2..he probably figured they would get every chance to play..as where the week before the draft he was guaranteed a starting slot...personally, I think he may get more catches in baltimore than he would have here..but he needed to go where he can put up some #'s-...I do not think he wants to ride the pine, not put up #'s and be in the same situation next year...all conjecture on my part...there may be some merit that baltimore..all he has to do is beat out sanders and he is #2. Maybe harder to do here as coaching staff will give gilmore, mcaddley and round 1 and 2 picks every chance to be a star..