Should the Cards switch to a 4-3 base?

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It's been mentioned on here briefly recently but should we switch to a 4-3 base D?

For some reason a lot of fans seem married to 3-4. I'm guessing it's a mix of warm memories of the Todd Bowles days and Chandler Jones being better as a stand up OLB? But now Chandler has gone and given the make up of the roster currently does it make better use of what we have to play 4-3?

1. The 3-4 OLB market this off season is dry as a bone. It's pretty much resign Chandler or Reddick, play a rookie or role with Kennard/Dimukeje.

2. The 3 linebackers we have on the roster lend themselves better to a 4-3. Simmons, Hicks and Collins would be a great trio at LB. Hicks has always been better in a 4-3 and Kennard can also play off ball OLB.

3. Watt has spent most his career at 4-3 DE and Zach Allen played the position in college. The FA market for 4-3 DE has much more available.

4. The options it would give the front 7 would go beyond what we have now. We have seen both Simmons and Collins play some OLB, they can both do that on occasion to mix things up. Both have the speed to blitz from off ball positions. Both are good in coverage.

If you look at the leaders in pass rush win rate last year most of the top half are 4-3 defenses. On paper Dolphins run a 3-4 but they have a Hybrid scheme and spend 75% in Nickel or Dime. After that it's Chargers at #11 but it's clear that 4-3 defenses dominate pass rush success.

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There is a similar pattern in Run Stop Win Rate with only the Ravens and Dolphins in the top 15.

Joseph has run both. He isn't ideologically married to either. And while it's not ideal to change scheme if it better suits the personnel you have it should be something we consider right?
 
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kerouac9

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Getting an A+ edge in a 4-3 who can also contain the run is harder than doing it with essentially four down linemen.

My philosophy on this is if Julius Peppers lands in your lap you build around him. Out building blocks on defense right now are secondary players, so it doesn’t matter as much.

Joseph I believe prefers the 3-4, but we’ve done plenty of both. Just need a game-wrecker on the edge. Don’t think one will be available in the draft.
 
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Getting an A+ edge in a 4-3 who can also contain the run is harder than doing it with essentially four down linemen.

My philosophy on this is if Julius Peppers lands in your lap you build around him. Out building blocks on defense right now are secondary players, so it doesn’t matter as much.

Joseph I believe prefers the 3-4, but we’ve done plenty of both. Just need a game-wrecker on the edge. Don’t think one will be available in the draft.

I don't think you can count on an Edge rusher to give you anything in year 1 unless it's a Chase Young or Nick Bosa type top 5 pick. I'm not even convinced the top guys this year are going to be all that in year 1.

For what the cards have in mind (which is try win while on Kylers rookie deal) I think they need a vet there. I really wasn't impressed with CJ this past year outside of game 1. He was a none entity for a lot of games and was really poor vs the run. I'd rather move on but there's really nothing else out there except Reddick who suits Goldens role far more than CJ's.

I'd like to bring Calais back who is still playing great and can play 4-3 DE or inside. I assume he still has his home hear and I'm hoping for a friendly deal to come back to wear it started.
 
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What are you basing this off of lol
History

How many edge guys come into the league and get 10+ sacks year one that aren't top 5 picks?

Chandler has been our main sack machine. You can't replace him with a rookie that's going to get 6 sacks and 13 pressures and expect to challenge for the division.

Even Chase Young in his rookie year had 7 sacks and 12 QB hits.

Half cooked Chandler had 10.5 sacks and 26 QB hits last year. No way you replace CJ with a rookie.
 
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DVontel

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You can't replace him with a rookie that's going to get 6 sacks and 13 pressures and expect to challenge for the division.
I know being hyperbolic is your thing, but this is completely different than you saying:

I don't think you can count on an Edge rusher to give you anything in year 1
Non top-5 picks like Jayson Oweh, Brian Burns, Montez Sweat, Maxx Crosby, & TJ Watt in recent memory all have had solid pressure & sack production for what you would expect out of a rookie. Then there’s the obvious Micah Parsons.

If someone like a Travon Walker landed to us at #23 & put up 5+ sacks & 20+ pressures in his rookie year, that would be a successful rookie campaign in my honest opinion.
 

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Getting an A+ edge in a 4-3 who can also contain the run is harder than doing it with essentially four down linemen.

My philosophy on this is if Julius Peppers lands in your lap you build around him. Out building blocks on defense right now are secondary players, so it doesn’t matter as much.

Joseph I believe prefers the 3-4, but we’ve done plenty of both. Just need a game-wrecker on the edge. Don’t think one will be available in the draft.
This is logical. Until you know all the personnel you can’t ID the best system. Using the wrong personnel was Wilkes‘ mistake.
 
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I know being hyperbolic is your thing, but this is completely different than you saying:


Non top-5 picks like Jayson Oweh, Brian Burns, Montez Sweat, Maxx Crosby, & TJ Watt in recent memory all have had solid pressure & sack production for what you would expect out of a rookie. Then there’s the obvious Micah Parsons.

If someone like a Travon Walker landed to us at #23 & put up 5+ sacks & 20+ pressures in his rookie year, that would be a successful rookie campaign in my honest opinion.

I was clearly talking about replacing Chandler. Context matters.

In that context you can't rely on a rookie to replace him.
 
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What is the world you live in where J.J. Watt played most of his career at 4-3 DE? He played with Wade Phillips and Romeo Crennel?

Is this "be picky" day? He's played a whole lot of 4-3 DE. Does it really matter how much?
 

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I think our roster is weak in both formations, Vance Joseph struggle to make halftime adjustments so i don't want him changing formations
We had to get rid of him but mr Bidwill probably didn't want to pay another coach
 
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This is a board that is fact-based. You don’t get to just make up your own facts to fit your narrative.

Haha fact based. You really want to get picky over a 52/48 split?

From 2011 to joining the Cards he played 3968 snaps at DI and 3536 at Edge. Does a 2.1% error really warranty your sarcastic reply?

Should I have been clearer on this fan forum and said "Most of his snaps since 2013 have been at Edge"?

For 7 of his 10 years prior to joining the Cards he was primarily an Edge player. That for me constitutes "mostly a DE".

SeasonSnaps at DISnaps at Edge
20117750
20129340
2013763199
2014389665
2015337633
20169364
2017107109
2018265697
2019155313
2020150856
 

kerouac9

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Where are these stats from? What do they even mean? Links help.

In 2014 and 2015 he played in a 3-4 defense under Romeo Crennel.
 
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Where are these stats from? What do they even mean? Links help.

In 2014 and 2015 he played in a 3-4 defense under Romeo Crennel.

He did indeed. But all that means is that he played inside on 1st down and 4-3 DE on 2nd and 3rd. Which is why his snaps are split 40/60 inside/outside in those years.

 

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Is anyone really counting on JJ Watt to play much next year? Will he make it through preseason without getting hurt again?
You have to be lobotomized or gotten hit with the Men In Black neurolizer at this point to believe an even older, even more broken down Watt, will make it through next season.
 
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kerouac9

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He did indeed. But all that means is that he played inside on 1st down and 4-3 DE on 2nd and 3rd. Which is why his snaps are split 40/60 inside/outside in those years.

So your source backing up the assertion that Watt could be good on the Edge is an article about how he could still be dominant in the interior?

Checks out.
 
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So your source backing up the assertion that Watt could be good on the Edge is an article about how he could still be dominant in the interior?

Checks out.

Does the article say he's bad at Edge? No it doesn't.

So just to be clear. I said Watt mostly played Edge, you made a sarcastic reply, I showed that in 7 of 10 seasons he played more Edge than inside and your response is "Ackshually that article says he could be good in the interior again"?

All these words wasted because I said Watt could play Edge in a 4-3 which he absolutely can and has been one of the best at it for many years.
 

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