Shaq To Cavaliers Talk Is Back

[mojorizen7]

It's just a failed attempt to be funny. It isn't really offensive.

I thought it was funny

 

[Bufalay]

I thought it was funny

Well then at least we both agree that it wasn't offensive.

 

[mojorizen7]

Well then at least we both agree that it wasn't offensive.

This is true. Bad Santa and Used Cars are my favorite comedies so Andrews gonna have to work very hard at offending me with his quirky,somewhat psychotic visions.

 

[HooverDam]

It's just a failed attempt to be funny. It isn't really offensive.

I found it offensively unfunny but not offensive offense :/

Used Cars.

Thats a good flick, shot in Mesa as Im sure you know. The writer, Bob Gale, did a talk at my college that I got to go see, he was a jerk though. He only wanted to talk about Back to the Future, wouldnt take questions on Used Cars or 1941.

 

[TJ]

Alright, I'll recant about Andrew, although I wasn't offended, just really annoyed.

But I'm only recanting because we know that when Shaq is traded in the next couple of weeks, he goes with.

 

[mojorizen7]

I found it offensively unfunny but not offensive offense :/



Thats a good flick, shot in Mesa as Im sure you know. The writer, Bob Gale, did a talk at my college that I got to go see, he was a jerk though. He only wanted to talk about Back to the Future, wouldnt take questions on Used Cars or 1941.

Yeah no doubt. Thats too bad he was an ass. If you get a chance to watch Used Cars(if you haven't already) with commentary by Zemeckis,K. Russell and Gale it's a riot. These guys were clowns making movies....good stuff. The original outakes of the ASU cut-in feed scene were over the top....the original prop they used to disguise themselves were just gut busting.
Ok, sorry i'll stop now, wrong forum, carry on.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'm saying this in case Sarver and Kerr grow a brain during the offseason.

If the Shaq trade is done, this had better be the first block of TNT to blow this thing up and start from scratch. That means <gulp> dealing Nash for some prospects and/or picks for 2010 and letting Grant Hill walk.

I know I'm in the minority here, but we should try to keep Stoudemire. He is young, offensively productive, and fun to watch. Plus, I think he has a good rapport with Gentry. I would offer him an extension and see how he responds. Obviously, his vision needs to be 100% otherwise, he is worthless, but I would hate to see one of the best finishers in the game pack his bags.

I would also like to see this team build around guys like Richardson, Dragic, and Dudley in the starting line up. Barbosa is best as the 6th man and arguably the best in the league in that capacity. Amundson is a stud off the bench. And finally, I have not given up on Alando Tucker just yet. I really want to see how he does with a year of honest playing time under a coach who knows how to utilize his talents.

Agree with you on most of it.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Its all rumors. Though, I like the attention Shaq is getting with his twitter, the Lakers, and now this rumor. I can turn on ESPN and within an hour hear him mentioned 3 times. It's like heaven for Shaq fans, when I die...I bet I will have a naked chick, my dog, a never ending supply of McDonalds and a constant loop of Shaquille O'Neal footage on an IMAX-like screen.

The craziest part of this is, I truly don't know if the naked chick, the dog, or Shaq gets the first round with him.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The reason it starts and begins with LeBron is because they have no post up game. Orlando stayed at home against the Cavs shooters (which most teams didn't do) and that left LeBron. No post up game to compliment LeBron. That's why the Cavs tried to trade for Shaq before the deadline. The Cavs know their front court is garbage.

Thats the point im trying to make. The Cavs destroyed teams all year long on both ends of the floor with no post game and had absolutely no problems. However, when the Magic decided to defend the 3 pointer and let LeBron work without anyone to kick out too the offense changed completely. They didnt continue to run their regular offense and their sets. They reverted back to 2007 and let LeBron iso with no movement at all from anyone else.

First off nobody has proven they can stop LeBron from driving to the hoop. Much like nobody could stop D-Wade on Miami doing it, or Kobe with the Lakers. Wade and Kobe are good outside shooters so it's not like they are going to shoot Shaq like numbers in the paint. They just need to be able to drive to the hoop when needed and get to the free throw line which they did in buckets.

Wade is a good mid range shooter but I wouldnt call him a good outside shooter, the same as LeBron. Teams dont need to stop Lebron from driving to the paint, they just have to make it difficult for him to finish. Adding Shaq in the lane doesnt exactly open up any more lanes for LeBron to finish, it closes them because Shaq is not a threat to step out of the paint at all.

Shaq at the center position was a leader in FG percentage. When you run a pick and roll with Shaq you don't roll Shaq to the top of the key or outside. You do it off the block. Shaq did a great job of picking and rolling to the basket...not away from it. That has been Shaq's game his entire career. Phil Jackson and Pat Riley played to Shaq's strengths. I didn't see either coach make it a habit of trying a pick and roll leaving Shaq on an island on the outside.

Im sorry but teams with Shaq (in his current condition and even near the end of his days in LA did not run that many pick and rolls with him). Obviously, Shaq in a pick and roll is going to go to the hoop, which is what im getting at. Nobody is going to guard Shaq on the pick and roll, because his man is going to sag into the lane to stay in front of he and LeBron. Putting today's Shaq in a pick and roll isnt a pick and roll it is just Shaq coming out to set a screen before reposting, because nobody is going to guard him. Shaq in his early years used the Shaq cut off the fake pick and roll to throw down alley oops. He isnt much of a threat to do that anymore, because he isnt as quick or athletic as he was that you had to guard him out there.

Which is my point exactly. Shaq isn't going to stop either one of those players from driving to the hoop. He didn't for Kobe, he didn't for Wade and he won't for LeBron.

He isnt going to stop them from getting to the hoop, he is just going to draw more defenders deeper into the lane to cut off the basket.

Ofcourse it will. However, Shaq shoots a very high percentage from the lane. Meaning that he will give LeBron some help by getting easy hoops. In addition, Shaq will draw people to the paint which will either leave shooters wide open or LeBron wide open. Something that they don't have today. Lebron has a bad game or the outside shooters are cold the Cavs are exposed.

Shaq will give the Cavs a good passer out of the post and a low post threat, but I still dont buy into Shaq making the Cavs that much better at all. They arent that much better than the Magic or the Celtics with Shaq. This is the reason why the Cavs dont want to give up anything of great value to the Suns in return. They arent moving Delonte (who is their 2nd best player) and they arent moving any future picks unless they are absolutely convinced they have to in order to get a deal done. I dont even think they move Hickson unless it brings back someone to help LeBron next year and the years after that.

 

[Chaplin]

I've seen you make statements like that to almost everyone on this board and I've seen you insult Andrew at the same time. You're kind of contradicting yourself here.

But to answer your question; yes I'm serious and guarantee most people on this MB feel the same way.

I have never ever insulted Andrew. I tend to ignore him unlike the rest of the mean-spirited people here. Please prove that I'm a hypocrite on this issue. I beg you.

You need to lighten up.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I will fully admit that I love messing with Andrew, but for Chaplin to point the finger at "mean spirited" people is batshit insane.

 

[TJ]

Chaplin saying that anyone should "lighten up" is pot calling kettle black. He usually follows his comments with an ad hoc attack towards anyone who disagrees with him

 

[elindholm]

Come on, guys, be happy. The Lakers won the title, after all. Wait, this is a Laker board, right? Sometimes I get confused.

 

[Andrew]

What the hell? I take offense to people for actually reading and trying to dissect my post, get out more...

 

[Ronin]

I apologize if this has been posted, but here is an up date:

O'Neal is open to being traded and Cleveland is his preferred destination, according to a league source with knowledge of his thinking. LeBron James is also excited about the possibility of playing with Shaq, according to people close to the situation.


While O'Neal hopes to end up in Cleveland, the 37-year-old future Hall of Famer also hopes to get a two-year contract extension, according to the league source. That being the case, he would like to get assurances that James, who can become a free agent after next season, will remain in Cleveland for at least the next three years. O'Neal is hardly in position to make such demands, and neither James nor the Cavs are likely to make him any promises. The Cavaliers could be in position to have a significant amount of cap space to pursue free agents such as Chris Bosh in 2010 and they are not going to give that up for O'Neal.


The source said O'Neal's desire for long-term security would not be a deal-breaker.


Meanwhile, interest elsewhere in O'Neal remains fairly high.


Dallas could send the Suns Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier, but the Suns have little interest in the Mavericks' plodding center, especially since he has two years and more than $23 million left on his contract.


The Hornets could perhaps offer more talent than anyone else by giving up either Tyson Chandler or Peja Stojakovic, but both players also have two years at big money left on their deals (roughly $24 million for Chandler and $30 million for Stojakovic).


The Knicks are trying to pawn their troubled center Eddy Curry off on the Suns but are getting nowhere.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4260855&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

 

[AceP]

As I remember, any trade plan that reported by ESPN, if it doesn't happen within 3 days, it will never happen at all. Most of the deals that went real, never leaked.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

There is a new rumor that Washington is in talks with the Cavs about a Ben Wallace and Saha deal for Jamison and Mike James.

That is an interesting deal, except that Jamison is locked up long term. He definitely solves the Cavs problem for being able to defend PFs out of the perimeter, gives LeBron a good 2nd option, and Jamison fits into their offense because he can score off the high post and stretch the defense with his shooting.

Also, Josh Smith is now out there, but unless the Hawks have their eyes set on Ben Wallace's contract I cant see the Cavs getting J-Smoove

 

[elindholm]

Greensborobuddy keeps telling us that Dampier's contract is only partially guaranteed. I may have read that somewhere else too.

 

[Chaplin]

Chaplin saying that anyone should "lighten up" is pot calling kettle black. He usually follows his comments with an ad hoc attack towards anyone who disagrees with him

Come on man, why do you have to be like that? You don't know me and I've been around here a lot longer than you have. Hell, I was at ESPN long before you as well.

Why do you care about Andrew at all anyway? In the scheme of things, does he really matter? This thread is about Shaq to the Cavs, posts by Andrew are inevitable.

 

[Ollie]

Greensborobuddy keeps telling us that Dampier's contract is only partially guaranteed. I may have read that somewhere else too.

From what I've read*, his last year (2010/11) will be fully unguaranteed (i.e. without buyout) as long as he doesn't average at least 30mns/game, since he failed to achieve some performance standards. Won't happen, especially if he's traded.

* http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Chatter-090518

 

[TJ]

Come on man, why do you have to be like that? You don't know me and I've been around here a lot longer than you have. Hell, I was at ESPN long before you as well.

Why do you care about Andrew at all anyway? In the scheme of things, does he really matter? This thread is about Shaq to the Cavs, posts by Andrew are inevitable.

And all of this has what to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Covert Rain]

Thats the point im trying to make. The Cavs destroyed teams all year long on both ends of the floor with no post game and had absolutely no problems. However, when the Magic decided to defend the 3 pointer and let LeBron work without anyone to kick out too the offense changed completely. They didnt continue to run their regular offense and their sets. They reverted back to 2007 and let LeBron iso with no movement at all from anyone else.

And the Suns destroyed teams in the regular season time and time again, only to have their bask sides handed to them time and time again come playoff time. Usually in the playoffs things change. Teams have a chance to adjust etc. 2 different seasons in my mind.

The Cavs weak front court is why they are not coming home with a title. It's not because they stopped running their normal offense. Their normal offense was shut down. Big difference. I watched them for 2 1/2 quarters try and run their regular sets and they were shut down. They panicked and said run everything through LeBron. That would not have been possible had they had a legit post up player.

Wade is a good mid range shooter but I wouldnt call him a good outside shooter, the same as LeBron. Teams dont need to stop Lebron from driving to the paint, they just have to make it difficult for him to finish. Adding Shaq in the lane doesnt exactly open up any more lanes for LeBron to finish, it closes them because Shaq is not a threat to step out of the paint at all.

Maybe I should have said jump shooter. Again...it didn't close off for Wade. He was still able to drive to the hoop enough. I didn't hear complaints about Shaq clogging up the lane in Miami. In fact, people were talking about how Marion and a smaller lineup would open things up for Wade and the team. Look how that turned out.

I have yet to hear a reason why the Cavs can't figure out what the Lakers and Miami did?

Im sorry but teams with Shaq (in his current condition and even near the end of his days in LA did not run that many pick and rolls with him). Obviously, Shaq in a pick and roll is going to go to the hoop, which is what im getting at. Nobody is going to guard Shaq on the pick and roll, because his man is going to sag into the lane to stay in front of he and LeBron. Putting today's Shaq in a pick and roll isnt a pick and roll it is just Shaq coming out to set a screen before reposting, because nobody is going to guard him. Shaq in his early years used the Shaq cut off the fake pick and roll to throw down alley oops. He isnt much of a threat to do that anymore, because he isnt as quick or athletic as he was that you had to guard him out there.

I don't know what Shaq you were watching but Shaq made a ton of hoops at the bucket this year. He was a league leader in FG% all season because of his efficiency around the bucket. He might not be able to do alley oop dunks all the time but he was still very efficient and made buckets just the same. A good coach is going not going to put Shaq in a position where he is away from the basket trying to draw guys away. That has not happened his entire career. Nobody has used Shaq that way. Are you saying the Cavs would?

He isnt going to stop them from getting to the hoop, he is just going to draw more defenders deeper into the lane to cut off the basket.

I am still waiting for a good example where that has happened using Kobe or Wade as an example. They figured it out. Why can't the Cavs?

Shaq will give the Cavs a good passer out of the post and a low post threat, but I still dont buy into Shaq making the Cavs that much better at all. They arent that much better than the Magic or the Celtics with Shaq. This is the reason why the Cavs dont want to give up anything of great value to the Suns in return. They arent moving Delonte (who is their 2nd best player) and they arent moving any future picks unless they are absolutely convinced they have to in order to get a deal done. I dont even think they move Hickson unless it brings back someone to help LeBron next year and the years after that.

That has more to do with bargaining power then what the Cavs actually think he can contribute. Many in the Cavs organization think Shaq puts them over the top. Their post up game will be much improved. Across the NBA it is universally known that very few teams can handle Shaq's contract. So that gives you bargaining power to offer very little to the Suns. That has nothing to do with what they think Shaq can do for them. If your the Cavs and you know that your not going to get into a bidding war with a ton of teams then you offer as little as possible. As it stands today their are only 2 teams believed to have the pieces contract wise and ability to absorb any potential financial hits (Dallas or the Cavs). So, basically your bidding against one other team. Ofcourse, your not going to give up very much.

The fact that they already tried to trade for him and are contacting the Suns now should tell you something. What this comes down to is do the Suns think moving Shaq helps them more financially them keeping him and letting his contract expire.

 

[Chaplin]

And all of this has what to do with the price of tea in China?

Maybe it has to do with you not having a right to personally attack people for no reason.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

And the Suns destroyed teams in the regular season time and time again, only to have their bask sides handed to them time and time again come playoff time. Usually in the playoffs things change. Teams have a chance to adjust etc. 2 different seasons in my mind.

The Suns never had a top 5 offense and top 5 defense. The Cavs had it setfor a legit title run, but they couldnt match up with the Magic. Post play or not, they couldnt match up with Orlando and that was the overwhelming difference in the series.

The Cavs weak front court is why they are not coming home with a title. It's not because they stopped running their normal offense. Their normal offense was shut down. Big difference. I watched them for 2 1/2 quarters try and run their regular sets and they were shut down. They panicked and said run everything through LeBron. That would not have been possible had they had a legit post up player.

They werent shut down until they began isolating LeBron late itn he 3rd and 4th. The Cavs did struggle running their offense, but they hung around for those 2 1/2 quarters. They lost the games late when LeBron would try to do everything on his own. He pulled a Kobe and decided to try and win it by himself. Again, the offense wasnt the overwhelming problem, it was the match ups. They had nobody to defend Hedo and Rashard. They still dont and wont with Shaq.

I have yet to hear a reason why the Cavs can't figure out what the Lakers and Miami did?

The Cavs dont have to figure out what LA and Miami did. They post Shaq up on the block. Not run a pick and roll with him.

I don't know what Shaq you were watching but Shaq made a ton of hoops at the bucket this year. He was a league leader in FG% all season because of his efficiency around the bucket. He might not be able to do alley oop dunks all the time but he was still very efficient and made buckets just the same. A good coach is going not going to put Shaq in a position where he is away from the basket trying to draw guys away. That has not happened his entire career. Nobody has used Shaq that way. Are you saying the Cavs would?

What are you talking about? The only thing I said was that Shaq shouldnt be running that many pick and rolls, because he isnt a threat outside of the paint. Obviously, Shaq has and always will be dominant in the paint, which is why I am saying to you, why would you pull him out of there at all to run pick and rolls? Nobody is going to follow Shaq out to guard him on the pick and roll. They are going to sag and wait for him to come back into the paint.

That has more to do with bargaining power then what the Cavs actually think he can contribute. Many in the Cavs organization think Shaq puts them over the top. Their post up game will be much improved. Across the NBA is it universally known that very few teams can handle Shaq's contract. So that gives you bargaining power to offer very little. That has nothing to do with what they think Shaq can do for them. If your the Cavs and you know that your going to offer the least possible. As it stands today their are only 2 teams believed to have the pieces contract wise (Dallas or the Mavs). So, basically your bidding against yourself and one other team. Ofcourse, your not going to give up very much.

I understand what you are saying. That is essentially what I am saying except I dont think Shaq puts them over the top at all. Yes, he helps their post game, but they still cant match up with teams who play a PF on the perimeter or have a tall SG. Shaq doesnt patch any of the holes that were exposed, because they played just fine with no low post threat. It was on defense where they were exposed by a longer more athletic defensive team.

The fact that they already tried to trade for him and are contacting the Suns now should tell you something. What this comes down to is do the Suns think moving Shaq helps them more financially them keeping him and letting his contract expire.

Obviously, moving Shaq helps the Suns tremendously. The Suns are in a terrible financial position and moving Shaq in any deal that is going to save them at the very least $10 mil in taxes and salary makes all the sense in the world. Then consider that the Suns either need to trade Amare and rebuild or try to keep Amare. The money that a Shaq trade would free up opens many more possibilities for Saver and Kerr than keeping Shaq and letting him expire along with Amare and Nash.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns never had a top 5 offense and top 5 defense. The Cavs had it setfor a legit title run, but they couldnt match up with the Magic. Post play or not, they couldnt match up with Orlando and that was the overwhelming difference in the series.

If they had Shaq they would have matched up. There are also other examples of teams with great records not winning the title.

They werent shut down until they began isolating LeBron late itn he 3rd and 4th. The Cavs did struggle running their offense, but they hung around for those 2 1/2 quarters. They lost the games late when LeBron would try to do everything on his own. He pulled a Kobe and decided to try and win it by himself. Again, the offense wasnt the overwhelming problem, it was the match ups. They had nobody to defend Hedo and Rashard. They still dont and wont with Shaq.

I don't think LeBron tried doing everything on his own. The coaches called those plays because 2 1/2 quarters later Orlando had figured out their offense and was shutting it down.

The Cavs dont have to figure out what LA and Miami did. They post Shaq up on the block. Not run a pick and roll with him.

OK. Never said they had to pick and roll Shaq. I was only countering your point that it's not as big a problem as you make it out to be. Shaq can be used in other ways and used the correct way in the Pick and Roll just like the Lakers and Kobe did. In other words...it's not a problem.

What are you talking about? The only thing I said was that Shaq shouldnt be running that many pick and rolls, because he isnt a threat outside of the paint. Obviously, Shaq has and always will be dominant in the paint, which is why I am saying to you, why would you pull him out of there at all to run pick and rolls? Nobody is going to follow Shaq out to guard him on the pick and roll. They are going to sag and wait for him to come back into the paint.

See response above. I was not saying that. I was saying that the pick and roll point you made before was not that big a deal and a non factor IMO. Shaq would not be used that way.

I understand what you are saying. That is essentially what I am saying except I dont think Shaq puts them over the top at all. Yes, he helps their post game, but they still cant match up with teams who play a PF on the perimeter or have a tall SG. Shaq doesnt patch any of the holes that were exposed, because they played just fine with no low post threat. It was on defense where they were exposed by a longer more athletic defensive team.

I am not saying I think by adding Shaq either they are a lock. However, how can you say that Shaq doesn't fill any holes? The Cavs lack of a front court is a GLARING hole that was exposed when it came down to an elite team with a post presence. Since Shaq got here he has made a huge impact on our paint play.

Cleveland ranked 30th in the NBA with an overall paint effeciency recap. Compared to the Suns at 7th. Cleveland was 13th in the NBA offensively with FG% in the paint and the Suns were #1. Cleveland ranked 21st in blocks at the center position in the paint. Suns #11th. I could go on about the Cavs paint play and play at the front court positions.

Are you trying to tell me Cleveland wouldn't be filling any glaring holes with Shaq in the front court? Really? Cleveland's front court is not even on the same planet as the likes of Orlando or the Lakers. They would be much closer with Shaq IMO. It gives you a 3rd dimension to your offense that they won't have without a post player. To say Shaq wouldn't fill any holes in the paint for the Cavs is like saying Nash wouldn't provide them any assists.

It's probably only a 1 season experiment but Shaq is better then what they have. Since the Cavs don't appear to be giving up much it's worth it IMO. Now if the Suns were taking some young talent away...I might agree with you because I doubt Shaq is there for the rest of his career unless he gets a ring or something right away.