Semi-OT: NFL Quarterback Power Rankings

[Cheesebeef]

That's the point though. You say: "his" wins. I say Belichick, defense, Vinateri, creative officiating and then Brady.

Vinateri is more important than Tom Brady. Holy cow dude. I get that you're always trying to make the argument that Warner is better than Brady (even though Warner had his fair share of clunkers in the playoffs as well and MORE than his fare share of clunkers the rest of his career), but the above is ludicrous.

But I'll certainly listen to why you think his drop in production during the postseason is praise-worthy.

I think his numbers have gone down because the team has become completely one dimensional and really isn't all that talented on offense anymore. He consistently BETTERED his numbers throughout his first six years when they had a balanced attack but without that and as more and more players have been stripped away, the Pats have become predictable. Now, in the regular season, you can get away with that, but in the playoffs, against the best defenses, rookie TEs and Wes Welker and midgets in your backfield ain't the bets weapons against Rex Ryan defenses. In addition to this, Brady also had a pretty poor showing against the Ravens the year he came back from ACL surgery where he didn't quite look right the entire season. That to me explains his dip in production the last three years. Prior to that, he was one of the best playoff QBs in the game.

Heck, I'm not even saying he's a bad QB or bad in the post season. I just think it's more admirable for a QB to elevate his game when things get tough.

Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw...Warner, these are guys who were their best in the post season. They actually improved their numbers when the competition and pressure got tougher.

Can't put Warner in that group IMO. Wayyyyyyy too small a sample size with only 13 playoff games, 4 of which were complete stinkers. He only played in 5 games for the Rams and 3 of those he didn't play well, with a TD:INT ratio of 5:8. He was a feast or famine playoff QB. He was either riddling teams for 4 TDs and no picks or turning the ball over like a ****.

Brady used to be in that group and is still the greatest QB of this generation IMO, but he's got to win another Super Bowl and start playing well in the playoffs to really get up into Montana/Elway land again. Those were the best 2 QBs I've ever seen. Brady was getting there, but there's no doubt, his last couple years have been a hit to that ultimate ultimate legacy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And I certainly don't blame Brady for having a good defense. You generally need one to win it all. I just tire of everyone forgetting the rest of the Patriots and making Brady into a post season superhero.

But when you think about say, Bradshaw. He had a great team around him and strong running game, etc. much like Brady has but if you think about Bradshaw, you think about all of the amazing plays that he was a part of on offense, how he elevated his game during the postseason and how he beat some truly historic teams while the Steelers went 4-0 with him at QB.

What do you think of with Brady? The tuck rule? The no-grounding call? Adam Venitari? A QB getting very debatable officiating to set up Vinateri to win it for the team just doesn't seem as heroic to me as everyone else I guess. Getting outplayed by Jake Delhomme in that SB is what I remember, McNabb puking all over the place in that SB is what I remember...I don't know. You can't argue with the final scores or record but has Brady really had any signature/memorable moments like Montana, Young, Aikman, etc.?

I remember a 2nd year QB getting the ball with less than two minutes against the greatest show on turf and picking them apart with complete ease to set up a makeable FG for one of the greatest upsets of all time.

And "getting outplayed" by Jake Delhomme... just because the Pats defense (which you say carried Brady) was awful that day, doesn't take away from Brady bailing their asses out and throwing for 354 yards and answering every time his defense gave up another score... oh yeah... and getting the kick-off with 2 minutes left and knowing the game was over because Brady was going to lead them to a FG, en route to a 100.5 passer rating. I also remember Brady picking apart the Eagles whenever he really needed to en route to 230 yards, 2 TDs, no picks and a 110 passer rating in the Super Bowl.

I mean... what signature moment did Steve Young have? Most of his career was the Niners continually losing Conference Title games against lesser opponents and one incredible super bowl against one of the worst Super Bowl teams I've ever seen.

Montana though... jesus... that guy, from 1989 on was just flat out disgusting. And I'll give you Aikman. He just seemed like a damn robot who could do no wrong during the Cowboys hey-day.

Brady's definitely fallen from that category, but his story's not finished yet.

 

[Russ Smith]

I put the list together.

I don't think that every quarterback can succeed in the Big Apple, and that Sanchez's kind of easygoing style, good looks, and gritty play give him credit with the fan base that prevents the disastrous reception that one might expect based on his stats.

The defense isn't going to be great forever, and Sanchez didn't get a lot of experience in college (one of the major knocks against him coming into that draft). But Sanchez is improving every year (63.3, 75.3, 82.3 this year QB rating-wise). Also, there's this:



That's 3 for 3 for 40 yards and the game-winning FG on the road in Indy.

Sanchez went 20 for 33 (7.1 YPA) and 2 TDs against Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game last year. Dude doesn't turn 25 until next month. What has Matty Slush done for Atlanta?

This year, Sanchez has had one really bad game--at Baltimore. Totally unforgivable.

I actually think his personality is sort of working against him in NY because he had that "pretty boy" perception on a team that's blue collar.

I don't think he's horrible I just think the main reason they lost 3 straight was him. He either blew the game(Balt) or couldn't put up big numbers against a bad defense(NE). The Raiders game not on him he put up 360 yards passing and it the defense not stopping the Raiders run game that cost them that game. But the Raiders pass defense is pretty weak and they were just daring the Jets to throw. You play that same defense against Rodgers or Brady it's going to be 500 yards plus IMHO.

He's improving yes, just don't see him top 10 but like Smith, he's being asked to not lose games so his stats are never going to be huge for that reason.

 

[kerouac9]

I actually think his personality is sort of working against him in NY because he had that "pretty boy" perception on a team that's blue collar.

I don't think he's horrible I just think the main reason they lost 3 straight was him. He either blew the game(Balt) or couldn't put up big numbers against a bad defense(NE). The Raiders game not on him he put up 360 yards passing and it the defense not stopping the Raiders run game that cost them that game. But the Raiders pass defense is pretty weak and they were just daring the Jets to throw. You play that same defense against Rodgers or Brady it's going to be 500 yards plus IMHO.

He's improving yes, just don't see him top 10 but like Smith, he's being asked to not lose games so his stats are never going to be huge for that reason.

Sanchez is kind of like a 21st century Joe Namath for this team. "Sex on a Stick" is how The Talented Mr. Roto described him his rookie year. I think that works in New York when you're a gritty lunchpail QB when you win, but you stink when you lose.

The Jets only called 26 passing plays against New England. He's 24; he's not going to audible out of runs like Kurt Warner. New York thought they could play New England last week like they played them in the playoffs last year. Maybe the coaching staff was right to take the ball out of Sanchez's hands; we'll never really know.

Where do you see him ranked? Because I tiered the system, I kind of had to nudge some people around. I'd rather have Sanchez than Romo, and I know I'm in the minority but in two years I think people will be with me vs. Matty Slush. I think that Josh Freeman can vault him if he continues to win and gets Tampa to the playoffs somehow in a tough division.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sanchez is kind of like a 21st century Joe Namath for this team. "Sex on a Stick" is how The Talented Mr. Roto described him his rookie year. I think that works in New York when you're a gritty lunchpail QB when you win, but you stink when you lose.

The Jets only called 26 passing plays against New England. He's 24; he's not going to audible out of runs like Kurt Warner. New York thought they could play New England last week like they played them in the playoffs last year. Maybe the coaching staff was right to take the ball out of Sanchez's hands; we'll never really know.

Where do you see him ranked? Because I tiered the system, I kind of had to nudge some people around. I'd rather have Sanchez than Romo, and I know I'm in the minority but in two years I think people will be with me vs. Matty Slush. I think that Josh Freeman can vault him if he continues to win and gets Tampa to the playoffs somehow in a tough division.

I've never sat down and ranked it but 10 just seems way too high for a guy whose coach only lets him throw 24 times against NE.

 

[moklerman]

Vinateri is more important than Tom Brady. Holy cow dude. I get that you're always trying to make the argument that Warner is better than Brady (even though Warner had his fair share of clunkers in the playoffs as well and MORE than his fare share of clunkers the rest of his career), but the above is ludicrous.

Ludicrous? How many SB's has Brady won without him? How many playoff games? Considering Brady's postseason career is largely based on game-winning FG's, I don't think Vinateri's worth should be discounted.

I think his numbers have gone down because the team has become completely one dimensional and really isn't all that talented on offense anymore.

I think you've got it backwards. The defense is on the decline this year but the offense is just as effective as it's been for a while. And they're being effective by running the ball more than they have in recent years. Not balanced by any means but Brady's numbers are so inflated as it is BECAUSE they're one-dimensional. He can't have those gaudy numbers by the offense being balanced. Kind of ironic that when they were balanced and relied on good overall team play, they won 3 SB's. Ever since the "Brady is God" campaign was started, they haven't won one.

Can't put Warner in that group IMO. Wayyyyyyy too small a sample size with only 13 playoff games, 4 of which were complete stinkers.

Okay, what is an acceptable sample size? Second, speaking of ludicrous, I really don't see how you can try to argue that Warner isn't one of the best post season QB's of all time. 102.8 career rating in the postseason isn't good enough to even make the list for you? 3 Super Bowl appearances? 9-4 record? 31 TD(in 13 games)? Seriously?

Most importantly, Warner's teams were primarily dependent on what he did with the ball.

I remember a 2nd year QB getting the ball with less than two minutes against the greatest show on turf and picking them apart with complete ease to set up a makeable FG for one of the greatest upsets of all time.

I realize we aren't going to see eye to eye on this and this is a good example of why. I mean, on that last drive alone Brady didn't get called for an obvious intentional grounding, the clock stopped on a pass to Kevin Faulk when he didn't get out of bounds and the officials let the clock run after the field, letting at least a full 2 seconds click away when the Rams had one of the most potent return games in the NFL that year.

That drive certainly wasn't Bradshaw to Swann or Montana to Taylor or anything along those lines.

I mean... what signature moment did Steve Young have? Most of his career was the Niners continually losing Conference Title games against lesser opponents and one incredible super bowl against one of the worst Super Bowl teams I've ever seen.

See, this is why I question your sincerity/credibility. You JUST praised Brady for putting up numbers against the Panthers but you're going to discount Young for beating the Chargers? And, I'm sorry but 3 td is not the same thing as 6 td. Especially not in the Super Bowl. And Delhomme matched Brady in that Super Bowl. He put up 300+ yards and 3 TD's like Brady but he didn't throw a pick.

Brady's definitely fallen from that category, but his story's not finished yet.

True and they probably won't even wait for him to retire to put him in the HOF but I just don't see him in the same light as some of the other all-time greats. He's done too much standing around in the backfield for hours on end with perfect pass protection and generally just had to let his kicker win games for him.

If his SB and playoff games were more like the game he had vs. Dallas last week, I'd be a lot more on board with his current reputation. Dude got beat up all game and then drove his team down for a TD to win. That was a helluva game and praise worthy. Getting outplayed by Jake Delhomme and Adam Vinateri kicking another game winning FG wasn't nearly as praise worthy.

 

[Duckjake]

Warner has to be one of the best indoor post season QBs. 11 of his 13 post season games were indoors.

Only Carolina and the SB in 2008 were outside.

 

[john h]

For me, I don't care if Tebow has thrown for a TD in every game he started. Throw in everything else in the game and general overall play as a professional QB and he limits what you can do with your offense. By that I mean what a coach can actually plan to do with him before the game because these guys can tend to be unpredictable. One would think that a athlete at the position would actually increase what one can do but it seems athletes at the position in the pros seem to limit you in the complexity of the plays you call in a position where the arm and brain are the tools that trump all. I don't agree with your placing of Kolb but that is how he has performed so far in the situation he has been cast in. The team, the situation and all the factors have to be irrelevant or one can not make a judgement at all on the facts. The facts so far say your list is basically spot on with exception of Tebow to me.

I would have enjoyed the QB article much more if it had been written before we traded for Kolb and know that all of our owners and management staff had read it also. I am tired of reading about good QBs and wish I could read about a Cardinal QB that is good. That seems highly unlikely anytime soon. I thought early on that Kolb showed a tendency to lack heart. He does not seem like one who will stand in there and take a hit to get a pass off. He is not likely to get knocked out of a game this year as I do not see him standing in there to look over the field. I predict we have made a solid mistake in giving away the farm for what was nothing more than a rookie of unknown ability. If Graves had anything to do with it we know he is no football guru so this mistake is understandable. If he loses 2-3 more in a row with a bad showing it is time to see what we have on the bench. I am totally sick of losing and watching a 28 year old rookie run out of the pocket the moment the ball is snapped. His problem so far is not so much a lack of experience but a lack of heart, a lack of accuracy. a lack of good decision making, and a host of other lacks. How about trying him in the gun? Do something different as we are getting worse not better. After 5 games our staff should know what he can and cannot do.

 

[moklerman]

Warner has to be one of the best indoor post season QBs. 11 of his 13 post season games were indoors.

Only Carolina and the SB in 2008 were outside.

And even those two were pretty good(52/75(69.3%) 597 yards(7.96ypa) 5td(6.7%)/2int(2.7%) 104.1 rating.