Rosen supporters.....plead your case

KYCardFan

Veteran
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Posts
297
Reaction score
397
Location
Lexington KY
What have you seen that leads you to believe this is the right guy to be the Cardinals QB going forward?

Not trying to bait or troll, just curious, based on what you saw, leads you to believe his is the man
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,748
Reaction score
9,512
Location
milan-italy
i have seen something good the first 2 games he played, some nice throws, then i watched one of the most disappointing season ever, was so boring to watch
Rosen got worse and never put a good sequence of plays togheter and moreover never hit a 85 rating in just a single match
depressing
 

BigRedRage

Reckless
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
48,274
Reaction score
12,524
Location
SE valley
What have you seen that leads you to believe this is the right guy to be the Cardinals QB going forward?

Not trying to bait or troll, just curious, based on what you saw, leads you to believe his is the man
it has been discussed ad nauseam the last 5 weeks.
 

UK Cardinal

Newbie
Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Posts
45
Reaction score
53
Location
UK
I don't think he is the next Rodgers but he is definitely not the limiting factor on the team last year and wasn't given much chance to succeed.

I just think there are way too many holes (at significant positions) to justify 2 first round QB's in 2 years.

I also don't get why people aren't more concerned about the tools Murray had vs what we have

. one of the best OL's in college (4 drafted this year and the 1 next year is even better) vs one of the worst in the NFL
. Lightning fast track team at WR (made DB's go deep leaving the middle open for Kyler to run) vs well 2 slot receivers and that's about it!

Rosen has also proven he is durable and gets up hit after hit, Kyler is small and yes I know "he is great at avoiding hits" but inevitably with our OL and the athletic monsters on the DL in the NFL he will take his fair share of punishment and I think that is the biggest fear.

I believe he needs a great line to be successful and we just cant give him that
 

BirdDroppings

Rookie
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Posts
66
Reaction score
111
Location
Here
I'm not convinced he is, but I'm also not convinced he isn't. There's a few reasons why I'm not all in on Murray.

  1. He wasn't put in a position to succeed last year, he was set up to fail. And he did fail. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in putting players in a position to succeed before judging them.
  2. The draft is a crapshoot. There's no such thing as a sure thing and when it comes to QB prospects, there have been many with less questions than Murray. If there was a Peyton Manning or Andrew luck this year, I'd be a little more inclined to move on.
  3. Rosen has handled all this crap better than anyone could have expected. In an age of diva players and snowflakes in general, he's impressed me with the type of man he is. That may not translate to wins on the field, but it doesn't hurt. I can't help but root for the guy. Had he come out and thrown a hissy fit when all this Murray stuff came out, or had he thrown his teammates under the bus last year, I would be far more inclined to say move on from him.
  4. Murray's personality rubs me the wrong way. The vibe I get from him is not good. He may be a great player, but he has a long way to go to show he deserves to be the face of a franchise.
  5. The whole thing sets a bad precedent. Basically, the message this team has been sending since last offseason is that we have no patience. There were signs last season. We pulled Bradford before Rosen was ready because we needed someone to blame. We fired McCoy, who admittedly sucked, because we needed somebody to blame. We moved on from most of our offensive players from last year because we needed somebody to blame. Now we're probably going to get rid of Rosen because we need somebody to blame. And by "we" I really mean Keim and Bidwill. Everyone underneath them has been held accountable for the failings last season, but neither of them have been.
  6. I think fixing the talent base of the team is fundamentally a better path to success than taking a flyer on a QB every year until you find one that succeeds. It reeks of ineptitude. Even if Rosen isn't the guy, whoever we throw out there is a lot more likely to succeed if he is surrounded by talent then by bums. Right now we still have a ton of bums and I'm not convinced Murray can win with them either.
  7. The narrative is that Murray is the guy because he fits the "system" the best. I don't want a system player and I don't want a system coach. Successful teams are flexible and adaptable. Coaches who insist on sticking with a system almost always fizzle out of the league after a couple years and players who only work in that system usually have short careers. Average coaching careers are what? 3-4 years? If the Air raid experiment doesn't work what's that mean for Murray once his system coach is gone?
 

jf-08

Guy Smiley
Administrator
Super Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,227
Reaction score
20,570
Location
Eye in the Sky
I'm not convinced he is, but I'm also not convinced he isn't. There's a few reasons why I'm not all in on Murray.

  1. He wasn't put in a position to succeed last year, he was set up to fail. And he did fail. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in putting players in a position to succeed before judging them.
  2. The draft is a crapshoot. There's no such thing as a sure thing and when it comes to QB prospects, there have been many with less questions than Murray. If there was a Peyton Manning or Andrew luck this year, I'd be a little more inclined to move on.
  3. Rosen has handled all this crap better than anyone could have expected. In an age of diva players and snowflakes in general, he's impressed me with the type of man he is. That may not translate to wins on the field, but it doesn't hurt. I can't help but root for the guy. Had he come out and thrown a hissy fit when all this Murray stuff came out, or had he thrown his teammates under the bus last year, I would be far more inclined to say move on from him.
  4. Murray's personality rubs me the wrong way. The vibe I get from him is not good. He may be a great player, but he has a long way to go to show he deserves to be the face of a franchise.
  5. The whole thing sets a bad precedent. Basically, the message this team has been sending since last offseason is that we have no patience. There were signs last season. We pulled Bradford before Rosen was ready because we needed someone to blame. We fired McCoy, who admittedly sucked, because we needed somebody to blame. We moved on from most of our offensive players from last year because we needed somebody to blame. Now we're probably going to get rid of Rosen because we need somebody to blame. And by "we" I really mean Keim and Bidwill. Everyone underneath them has been held accountable for the failings last season, but neither of them have been.
  6. I think fixing the talent base of the team is fundamentally a better path to success than taking a flyer on a QB every year until you find one that succeeds. It reeks of ineptitude. Even if Rosen isn't the guy, whoever we throw out there is a lot more likely to succeed if he is surrounded by talent then by bums. Right now we still have a ton of bums and I'm not convinced Murray can win with them either.
  7. The narrative is that Murray is the guy because he fits the "system" the best. I don't want a system player and I don't want a system coach. Successful teams are flexible and adaptable. Coaches who insist on sticking with a system almost always fizzle out of the league after a couple years and players who only work in that system usually have short careers. Average coaching careers are what? 3-4 years? If the Air raid experiment doesn't work what's that mean for Murray once his system coach is gone?
:notworthy:
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,497
Reaction score
27,772
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I don't believe that, from a physical standpoint, there's much difference between, say, Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins. The difference is what's between the ears: leadership, work ethic, attitude.

So, here are the QBs in the last four Conference Championship games:

2019: Mahomes, Brady, Goff, Brees
2018: Bortles, Foles, Keenum, Brady
2017: Ryan, Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger
2016: Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, Newton

I see 2 "mobile" QBs and 11 traditional dropback passers. It seems that the modern NFL hasn't quite arrived to the Conference Championship level.

I was a guy who loved Michael Vick, Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick. I had DangeRuss and Kaep in my Top 10 QBs like three years ago. I'm not immune to the allure of the generational talent.

THAT SAID, I really enjoy Josh Rosen's game. I saw enough good passes in spots to tell me that he can make every NFL throw. I've seen him work his way while on the bench into the starting lineup, and then grind out awful games through a lost season without complaint, then come back and ask for more amid an absolute maelstrom of controversy.

I think he's a hard worker and a real leader. He's a guy who's vocal on the sidelines and professional in front of the media. Can he light up the scoreboard in some Week 12 Thursday night game? I think he could, but he can't do it by himself. He's going to bring the team together to do so.

Maybe there are posts just like this about E.J. Manuel and Christian Ponder. There probably are.

But I didn't walk away from 2018 feeling like we were insecure under center. I thought that we had a building block that the team could grow around.

I still think that.
 

jf-08

Guy Smiley
Administrator
Super Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,227
Reaction score
20,570
Location
Eye in the Sky
I don't believe that, from a physical standpoint, there's much difference between, say, Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins. The difference is what's between the ears: leadership, work ethic, attitude.

So, here are the QBs in the last four Conference Championship games:

2019: Mahomes, Brady, Goff, Brees
2018: Bortles, Foles, Keenum, Brady
2017: Ryan, Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger
2016: Brady, P. Manning, Palmer, Newton

I see 2 "mobile" QBs and 11 traditional dropback passers. It seems that the modern NFL hasn't quite arrived to the Conference Championship level.

I was a guy who loved Michael Vick, Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick. I had DangeRuss and Kaep in my Top 10 QBs like three years ago. I'm not immune to the allure of the generational talent.

THAT SAID, I really enjoy Josh Rosen's game. I saw enough good passes in spots to tell me that he can make every NFL throw. I've seen him work his way while on the bench into the starting lineup, and then grind out awful games through a lost season without complaint, then come back and ask for more amid an absolute maelstrom of controversy.

I think he's a hard worker and a real leader. He's a guy who's vocal on the sidelines and professional in front of the media. Can he light up the scoreboard in some Week 12 Thursday night game? I think he could, but he can't do it by himself. He's going to bring the team together to do so.

Maybe there are posts just like this about E.J. Manuel and Christian Ponder. There probably are.

But I didn't walk away from 2018 feeling like we were insecure under center. I thought that we had a building block that the team could grow around.

I still think that.
Nice write up.
 

Delmar M Lewis

All Star
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Posts
883
Reaction score
383
Location
Webb City Mo.
There are simply way to many other needs on this team to take a chance on Murray and way to many questions about his weight height etc the fact that Murray actually had a lot of talent around him and played in a weak defensive conference plus one simple thing Rosen has really worked his but off to be a good teammate throughout this whole stupid mess
 
OP
OP
K

KYCardFan

Veteran
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Posts
297
Reaction score
397
Location
Lexington KY
My biggest two concerns are: Lack of accuracy on relatively easy throws and late pulling the trigger when receiver5s were actually open.

He reminds me of a baseball pitcher, who has "wow" arm talent but ends up going 10-15, ERA around 5
 

GuernseyCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Posts
10,123
Reaction score
5,681
Location
London UK
What have you seen that leads you to believe this is the right guy to be the Cardinals QB going forward?

Not trying to bait or troll, just curious, based on what you saw, leads you to believe his is the man

The case has been made and we await the verdict of the 3 judge panel: Lord Bidwill, Keim and Kingsbury.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
11,123
Reaction score
11,963
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Kerouac and Bird Droppings nailed it. I just don't think Murray is going to be that much better than Rosen. So why play the game again? Just to be in the same spot at the end of the year? Meh.
 

sr7706

Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
346
Reaction score
145
Never been better than an avg. QB, even in college...Don't understand the PRO Rosen people...
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,497
Reaction score
27,772
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Kerouac and Bird Droppings nailed it. I just don't think Murray is going to be that much better than Rosen. So why play the game again? Just to be in the same spot at the end of the year? Meh.

Actually, I think that Murray is either going to be WAY better than Rosen or out of the NFL in three years. I think Rosen will have a roster spot in this league as long as he wants one.

I purposefully didn't make a Murray comparison in my post because I don't want it to become a flame war. I don't want to do it here, either.

BTW, Rosen is a first-round pick entering his second NFL season. We should all be "Rosen supporters" right now.
 

PJ1

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
11,970
Reaction score
4,862
Location
Nashville TN.
I'm not convinced he is, but I'm also not convinced he isn't. There's a few reasons why I'm not all in on Murray.

  1. He wasn't put in a position to succeed last year, he was set up to fail. And he did fail. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in putting players in a position to succeed before judging them.
  2. The draft is a crapshoot. There's no such thing as a sure thing and when it comes to QB prospects, there have been many with less questions than Murray. If there was a Peyton Manning or Andrew luck this year, I'd be a little more inclined to move on.
  3. Rosen has handled all this crap better than anyone could have expected. In an age of diva players and snowflakes in general, he's impressed me with the type of man he is. That may not translate to wins on the field, but it doesn't hurt. I can't help but root for the guy. Had he come out and thrown a hissy fit when all this Murray stuff came out, or had he thrown his teammates under the bus last year, I would be far more inclined to say move on from him.
  4. Murray's personality rubs me the wrong way. The vibe I get from him is not good. He may be a great player, but he has a long way to go to show he deserves to be the face of a franchise.
  5. The whole thing sets a bad precedent. Basically, the message this team has been sending since last offseason is that we have no patience. There were signs last season. We pulled Bradford before Rosen was ready because we needed someone to blame. We fired McCoy, who admittedly sucked, because we needed somebody to blame. We moved on from most of our offensive players from last year because we needed somebody to blame. Now we're probably going to get rid of Rosen because we need somebody to blame. And by "we" I really mean Keim and Bidwill. Everyone underneath them has been held accountable for the failings last season, but neither of them have been.
  6. I think fixing the talent base of the team is fundamentally a better path to success than taking a flyer on a QB every year until you find one that succeeds. It reeks of ineptitude. Even if Rosen isn't the guy, whoever we throw out there is a lot more likely to succeed if he is surrounded by talent then by bums. Right now we still have a ton of bums and I'm not convinced Murray can win with them either.
  7. The narrative is that Murray is the guy because he fits the "system" the best. I don't want a system player and I don't want a system coach. Successful teams are flexible and adaptable. Coaches who insist on sticking with a system almost always fizzle out of the league after a couple years and players who only work in that system usually have short careers. Average coaching careers are what? 3-4 years? If the Air raid experiment doesn't work what's that mean for Murray once his system coach is gone?

Great post.
 
Top