Robert Sarver is in Big Trouble (ANNOUNCES SALE PROCESS)

[Hoop Head]

That's not true. Any employer that creates an environment or has incidents in which sexist or racist language that is used opens the organization up to legal lawsuits around harassment and discrimination. Likely the subject of many of the "settlements" the Suns entered into under Sarver. All of that is actionable based on current law. It might not be personally criminal in nature but you certainly open the organization up to lawsuits. Your liability goes up exponentially if the person who did it is not let go which gets a organization into deeper trouble for not taking action and terminating said employee.

The NBA could argue that he created an environment that not only is damaging the team but the NBA. Will they is a different story. Not sure what the appetite is. We shall see. The Sterling saga was a huge and long mess the NBA might not want to get into the middle of again outside an "investigation".

I'm not giving him a pass, I just don't believe that's enough for the league to push him out because he's not leaving without a fight. If he's willing to cut settlement checks so freely then he's willing to spend a whole lot more in court to fight to remain in his position. I'd be surprised if the league could somehow force him out because of this.

There are other teams that have been rampant with issues before, like the Knicks sexual harassment cases that forced Isaiah Thomas out as GM. I remember another case more recently within the Mavericks organization that caused a number of people to be removed. I dont recall hearing about pushing Dolan or Cuban out in either instance and both are unpopular owners with the league office. Of course there are some things now that directly involve Sarver so that shakes things up. Is what he did bad enough to force him out? I don't think so, at least based on what's in that ESPN article.

We'll see but there will need to be some solid evidence and the fact that no issues ever made it out of the Suns organization before doesn't bode well for removing Sarver because it doesn't show a negligence on his part to correct anything. That would need to be proven somehow to get him out. The league office has ways to report misconduct and no one has up to this point and I think that helps Sarver save his position.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

The league office has ways to report misconduct and no one has up to this point and I think that helps Sarver save his position.

This bit honestly holds little weight, especially given the issues with their HR department.

It's a nice talking point, but it's there any training within the organization where employees know what kind of conduct is not appropriate and that this line even exists to make such reports?

I know our corporate compliance number/webpage/email and I know they are a very serious outfit.

The organizational expectations are pretty well firmly stated and understood

 

[Hoop Head]

This bit honestly holds little weight, especially given the issues with their HR department.

It's a nice talking point, but it's there any training within the organization where employees know what kind of conduct is not appropriate and that this line even exists to make such reports?

I know our corporate compliance number/webpage/email and I know they are a very serious outfit.

The organizational expectations are pretty well firmly stated and understood

That's understandable.

I'm looking at this as fools gold, in a way. I want him out and quick but what I want doesn't make it a reality. Sarver will fight this and there are a lot of ways to do so. The league needs a very strong case to force him to sell. I can't think of an instance where personal conduct that wasn't criminal led to that outside of Donald Sterling and that case was much easier than it could have been because of the role Sterling's wife and family played in it. They helped expedite the process. Donald was an 80+ year old lunatic also who didn't have the mental capacity to put up that much resistance to that either since he was deemed mentally incompetent. Sterling's wife even got a judgement against his mistress to repay almost all of the money Donald gave her and her the possessions. My point is, that case was the exception and not the rule.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not giving him a pass, I just don't believe that's enough for the league to push him out because he's not leaving without a fight. If he's willing to cut settlement checks so freely then he's willing to spend a whole lot more in court to fight to remain in his position. I'd be surprised if the league could somehow force him out because of this.

There are other teams that have been rampant with issues before, like the Knicks sexual harassment cases that forced Isaiah Thomas out as GM. I remember another case more recently within the Mavericks organization that caused a number of people to be removed. I dont recall hearing about pushing Dolan or Cuban out in either instance and both are unpopular owners with the league office. Of course there are some things now that directly involve Sarver so that shakes things up. Is what he did bad enough to force him out? I don't think so, at least based on what's in that ESPN article.

We'll see but there will need to be some solid evidence and the fact that no issues ever made it out of the Suns organization before doesn't bode well for removing Sarver because it doesn't show a negligence on his part to correct anything. That would need to be proven somehow to get him out. The league office has ways to report misconduct and no one has up to this point and I think that helps Sarver save his position.

That's the point isn't it? Are you shocked with the NBA's reputation on handling things and Sarver's HR department running interference that anything came of these incidents? The league didn't even know about the settlements I bet. Keep in mind the same can be said of Donald Sterling. After all the dust settled a list of incidents other than the phone call that started it all came out of the wood works. None of those made it to the league office either.

You know what will force Sarver out? Advertisers jumping ship. That's what hastened the exit of Sterling. Sterling fought too and would have done so indefinitely. Clippers started shedding advertisers/sponsors and players refused to play under him which changed everything.

Report: Players Refuse to Play for Clippers Under Sterling

If you were unsure how much Donald Sterling's racist comments could impact the Los Angeles Clippers from a performance standpoint, here's some in...

clipperholics.com

Sterling's Clippers are losing sponsors

The Clippers owner is now starting to feel the consequences of his words in his pocketbook.

www.sbnation.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

EJ is parsing words talking about this on his shoe on NBA radio. Treading very carefully. Says he’s almost never in Suns offices. Never even been in a room with Sarver. Knows some people who work in the office. Only thing he really says is that Sarver is known to be “fiery” with coaches and people... but there atr other owners like that.

Didn’t bury him by any means but it sure as hell wasn’t a ringing endorsement either.

 

[Rab]

I finally got around to reading it. I think it may actually be easier to get him than we think. If they find concrete evidence of just one usage of the N word…he’s gone. Simple as that. Let alone if they find any of the other accusations to be true.

I hope this doesn’t drag on and on and that resolution could come rather swiftly but unfortunately this will linger for a while. I’m very curious to see how the players and coaching staff reacts now that it’s out there.

Dark days ahead my friends.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's understandable.

I'm looking at this as fools gold, in a way. I want him out and quick but what I want doesn't make it a reality. Sarver will fight this and there are a lot of ways to do so. The league needs a very strong case to force him to sell. I can't think of an instance where personal conduct that wasn't criminal led to that outside of Donald Sterling and that case was much easier than it could have been because of the role Sterling's wife and family played in it. They helped expedite the process. Donald was an 80+ year old lunatic also who didn't have the mental capacity to put up that much resistance to that either since he was deemed mentally incompetent. Sterling's wife even got a judgement against his mistress to repay almost all of the money Donald gave her and her the possessions. My point is, that case was the exception and not the rule.

3/4ths of the owners can flat out vote him out.

Its a league, which means if that happens and he fights it, the league can just not have the Suns play....which means he owns nothing.

 

[Dr. Jones]

This is hilarious..... And also horrifying.

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[BigRedRage]

I read a few paragraphs of the ESPN story and got bored.

 

[Western Font]

The league’s investigation is going to substantiate a percentage of this. It might even substantiate some of Watson’s claims, regardless of his suggested agenda or his own behavior.

If I’m part of the ownership group I think this really damages the brand and the asset. If I’m the league I think this damages the NBA brand and competition.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sarver drawing up plays at halftime lmao

That one made me laugh. For a smart man who made a lot of money he’s got some major blind spots that make a total idiot.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm afraid this matter is going to drag on forever.

For the good of the franchise I wish Robert Sarver would resign.

I do think the comments by Michelle Roberts former Director of the NBPA and Steve Kerr former Suns GM carries some weight.

Those stood out to me too. Kerr has never been one to purse his lips regarding controversial topics.

 

[Mainstreet]

That one made me laugh. For a smart man who made a lot of money he’s got some major blind spots that make a total idiot.

It's hilarious but let's not forget Jerry Colangelo tried to coach the Suns in the past.

 

[Dback Jon]

It's hilarious but let's not forget Jerry Colangelo tried to coach the Suns in the past.

Jerry has been in Basketball all his life. Quite different

 

[Mainstreet]

Jerry has been in Basketball all his life. Quite different

I like to point out things that some fans may not be aware.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I got nothing. The NFL office says that they have never received complaints by name or anonymously through their hotline. Doesn't mean it didnt happen, but it would have helped if someone had complained.

Glad the NBA office is going to investigate. There must be some official response, not just letting this hang in the press. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but also, these are not light allegations. They need to be taken seriously. The truth is what matters.

Sarver is not THE owner, he is one of an ownership group. The easiest thing would be for him to resign as managing general partner and find someone else to fill that role. Anyone know his ownership percentage?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This. Let's assume the Earl Watson and even a couple of the incidents is sour grapes. THERE ARE 70 PEOPLE ON RECORD WHO WERE NOT ALL FIRED.

Let that sink in. 70 including ownership and an ex-HR head. People that didn't have an axe to grind but got the hell out because it was so toxic. Racism and sexism has no place in the organization. None. Too many people confirm the racism and sexism.

Sarver must go. He simply cannot be a bigger story than the team. I hope he does the honorable thing and resigns but based on his character that likely wont happen.

Again you’re falling for a common trick: 70 people were interviewed. We have no idea how many of them made statements or corroborated statements. In fact other than a handful whose names were used, we don’t know if the stories all came from the same people or a ton of people. We also haven’t heard much from “the other side” and let’s remember, no matter how much we believe the story, we’ve only read side of it, and there’s always two sides. And it was in Baxter’s best interest for the story to be as salacious possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm sad for those who experienced Sarver's hate and bigotry. I'm happy that we have the opportunity to change ownership. Far too often, we talk about ownership's failure with all four professional teams in AZ, with the symptom being bad coaching, GM and player management. We talk about firing those people, but cant change ownership. Now that Sarver is vulnerable to being ousted, I'm stoked.

I hope you’re right.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again you’re falling for a common trick: 70 people were interviewed. We have no idea how many of them made statements or corroborated statements. In fact other than a handful whose names were used, we don’t know if the stories all came from the same people or a ton of people. We also haven’t heard much from “the other side” and let’s remember, no matter how much we believe the story, we’ve only read side of it, and there’s always two sides. And it was in Baxter’s best interest for the story to be as salacious possible.

See my previous response to this. The reverse is also true and the assumption here is there is not more to be discovered. That wasn't true with Sterling and I doubt it's true here either.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I read through it with a fairly skeptical eye and it is really awful stuff

I used to write employment practices liability policies in the early/mid 00s and a lot of this stuff fits the pattern we'd see in that space

I had one applicant where the owners son had 3 claims around him - the guy would literally take out his stuff and put it on female workers keyboards. Basic question is how does this happen 3 times - what corrective actions are there, is he allowed on site? The answer was nothing - it's the owners son. I kindly informed them they were uninsurable and they should probably start saving money for a large punitive damages award in their future.

That type of action/culture creates an environment where people don't speak up - because it's pointless and no one cares

The worst businesses often have the fewest complaints - because it's understood the process is a sham - so you can deal with it or quit

I largely discount the Watson stuff. There is an obvious grudge. I think Watson was likely trying to leverage race while Sarver was more interested in petty vindictiveness.

Not a great way to run an operation, but nothing really actionable.

I completely disregard Corliss Williamson. That story doesn't move the needle. Sarver is known for meddling, known for outbursts, known for being vocal in pretty much any league setting. He had a 7', top draft pick who gave an appearance of being sometimes soft or not fully engaged on defense. I can see Sarver boiling over that this player wasn't even attempting to defend the rim - no blocks and no fouls. Just because your from the south and he's white and older doesn't make this a racial thing. Sarver would have yelled at any big man coach.

Drawing up plays and being involved doesn't really move the needle either. The Kings coach pushes a lot of nonsense. When Howard Schultz owned the Sonics he had big opinions. Not unique for owners to want to be direct with the players, coaches, etc - it's their toy to play with. They typically are just terrible at it.

Those 3 items just make him a crap owner. The outbursts, league level behavior, etc - just a bad owner and not great person.

The other stuff is bad, even if not all poorly intentioned.

I'm sure he felt he was sticking up for his player why the Draymond stuff - why did my guy get punished and he doesn't?

I'm sure he was trying to find coaches that could be relatable.

I'm sure he repeated stuff he shouldn't with no awareness on how any of it impacted those around him because he didn't have to care.

Pantsing someone in front of their coworkers is terrible - doesn't matter if you thought it was funny. That's actionable behavior.

Assuming the accommodations that a new mother would need and limiting opportunity because of it is wrong and frequently actionable. It sounds like his team steered him out of that mess.

Making jokes about shaving balls isn't work appropriate. Also fits with this pattern that he needs to be the guy - making the rounds - telling jokes - being over the top and since he's the boss and also vindictive he thinks everyone enjoys it

An employee calling a a black coworker Carlton is awful. The fact that he thought it was all fun and jokes speaks to the culture there. The black employee didn't like it, but definitely wasn't empowered to do anything about it - except probably complain to friends/family after work

The dysfunctional HR is terrible

The other treatment of women definitely comes of as actionable

He runs a rotting ship

It doesn't matter if that is normal or abnormal in the NBA

I've yet to see my competitor does the same or worse help out anyone in employment practices litigation. It's frankly irrelevant to your own bad actions.

It also sounds like there are members of ownership who have long grown tired of him and need something egregious to trigger contractual clauses.

I'm sure that is why one owner went on record in the investigation and another spoke out quickly today.

So where does this go? Depends what the NBA and other owners (both league and Suns group) want.

Do they want to pressure him out of running the show? Then you'll see a reputable outside investigator come in and let them do their jobs - similar to the Blackhawks.

Do they want to save face and just move forward? Then you get the Washington Football Team investigation where nothing is disclosed, they'll be a fine, some level of soft punishment, sensitivity training and call it a day

Very well put. Agree with all of it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One point that think is overlooked. Even well intentioned mistakes can get you fired in most companies in America. Just because you "didn't mean to" is a really crappy excuse. I have been in leadership for years and have seen so many upper level executives fired for things they "didn't intend". The liability is through the roof if you don't. The fact the Suns apparently have settled with many employees tells you how likely serious some of these offenses were.

Saying that there isn't enough here or there is no smoking gun isn't true. I have seen this up close and personal on many occasions for the last 30 years.



Holding my breath that the NBA will have the guts to remove him is something else entirely. Trust me when I say there is enough here to get any executive fired in any company I have ever worked for. I have dealt with HR issues, Corporate liability and risk almost my entire career. Sarver was smart enough to put a clause in his contract about criminal offenses being the only grounds for the ownership group to remove him. Now it's up to the NBA regardless of how likely it is or not.

I am just shocked the ownership group didn't have a moral clause. That seems pretty standard these days.

Sports are another beast altogether.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, you can bet any player who has any measure of control over it is most definitely not going to want to come here as long as Sarver is running things. Nobody with any career viability is going to want to be associated with a franchise that's run so poorly.

$$$$$$$$$

 

[Hoop Head]

I got nothing. The NFL office says that they have never received complaints by name or anonymously through their hotline. Doesn't mean it didnt happen, but it would have helped if someone had complained.

Glad the NBA office is going to investigate. There must be some official response, not just letting this hang in the press. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but also, these are not light allegations. They need to be taken seriously. The truth is what matters.

Sarver is not THE owner, he is one of an ownership group. The easiest thing would be for him to resign as managing general partner and find someone else to fill that role. Anyone know his ownership percentage?

He owns 30% or so according to the reports released when he bought the team. I don't believe he's purchased more since then.

Suns Sale Closes Today:Sarver Becomes Main Owner

By Mike Tulumello East Valley Tribune June 30, 2004 On Tuesday, he signed the papers. Today, he’ll write the check. "One big one," Robert Sarver said, with a laugh. Sarver is incoming owner of the Suns, and today is the closing date for the $401 million sale of the club.

www.nba.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bank on it impacting deals and free agency. Drafted players don't have a choice. However, if you are an NBA owner, especially an NBA owner who already didn't like Sarver? You are not making deals as long as Sarver is owner. Same with free agents.

I am not going to be shocked if Advertisers start dropping the Suns too as this drags on.

The advertisers could be a big deal. But if they are misogynists too it won’t bother them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ryan McDonough weighs in.

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