Response from Chris Bahr TSN (Plummer Realist)...not just a form reply...

CardsFan88

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Plummer may be old news, but I decided to email him because he was one of the few writers that isn't glowing over plummer and the broncos...His reply will be first...then what I wrote.


Plummer will have a much better team around him and more stability in the organization/on the sideline, but I still don't think he has what it takes to be a star QB. There is just something missing. He will have to avoid poor decisions and see the action develop better. It hasn't happened yet, and he isn't exactly a rookie anymore. And as you said, he did have some talent around him in Arizona. Time will tell.


Chris Bahr
Community Editor
The Sporting News

Here is his article
http://www.sportingnews.com/sportsbahr/20030306.html

Here are the responses he got

http://www.sportingnews.com/sportsbahr/20030307.html

Here is what I wrote....(wasn't picked)

You are right..Plummer is average at best...Most likely backup material in my opinion.
When a qb has David Boston, or Rob Moore, and Frank Sanders, Freddie Jones, and a great offensive line...during his years there and can't get it done...it should make you go hmmmmmm

Then, when the QB is part of an offense that went 1 1/2 years without a first drive td...it makes you go hmmmmmm

Also, when you consider his bonehead plays put the cardinals behind, or even more behind in MANY of their losses, and tell us for 4+ years he needs to quit making stupid decisions...yet doesn't.....it makes you go hmmmmmm

Next, when a qb can't read defenses, can barely throw a spiral, and absolutely, positively ducks,(not wobbles), ducks (the kind after you shoot a duck in duck hunt) 50-60% of his passes over 35 yards...it makes you go hmmmmm

Finally, when the offensive coordinator tells you ...just look at one half of the field to a six year vet...and the broncos sign this guy for 7 years and 40 million...It should make EVERYONE go hmmmmmmmm

I wish him luck, but the grass isn't greener on the other side..especially when that grass grows in desert Phoenix. Metaphorically, and Jake Plummer QB wise.
 

azdeftone

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Whatever card88 we will see who puts up better #'s next season Blake or Jake and also who WILL make the Playoffs and who won't. And as far as that talent you mentioned when he had Rob Moore and Frank sanders I beleive they were the best pair of Receiivers in the league (yardage wise) and when boston was healthy last season he led the league in yardage. So apparently Jake did get the ball to those guys problem was thats all the cards had.

They have always had a mediocre O line I dont care how big they are they still are just average at pass or run blocking maybe they need to take some lessons from denver who always has a good line. And you cant blame plummer for all the cards losses when we constantly give up huge amounts of points when the D played ok the games were usually winnable even if we did not win.

What are you gonna say next season when Jake does really well in Denver??

Anyone can see that plummer has made mistakes here but how much of that was lack of talent and even coaching, neither of which has ever been a strong point here. We will see how plummer does with an actual Football Organization not bidwills personal business.
 

john h

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Originally posted by azdeftone
Whatever card88 we will see who puts up better #'s next season Blake or Jake and also who WILL make the Playoffs and who won't. And as far as that talent you mentioned when he had Rob Moore and Frank sanders I beleive they were the best pair of Receiivers in the league (yardage wise) and when boston was healthy last season he led the league in yardage. So apparently Jake did get the ball to those guys problem was thats all the cards had.

They have always had a mediocre O line I dont care how big they are they still are just average at pass or run blocking maybe they need to take some lessons from denver who always has a good line. And you cant blame plummer for all the cards losses when we constantly give up huge amounts of points when the D played ok the games were usually winnable even if we did not win.

What are you gonna say next season when Jake does really well in Denver??

Anyone can see that plummer has made mistakes here but how much of that was lack of talent and even coaching, neither of which has ever been a strong point here. We will see how plummer does with an actual Football Organization not bidwills personal business.


what are you going to say next year when he does very poorly?? it can go either way.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by azdeftone


Anyone can see that plummer has made mistakes here but how much of that was lack of talent........

Yeah, lack of talent on HIS part.

(psst......what was that behind the back pass all about?)
 
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CardsFan88

CardsFan88

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Originally posted by azdeftone
Whatever card88 we will see who puts up better #'s next season Blake or Jake and also who WILL make the Playoffs and who won't. And as far as that talent you mentioned when he had Rob Moore and Frank sanders I beleive they were the best pair of Receiivers in the league (yardage wise) and when boston was healthy last season he led the league in yardage. So apparently Jake did get the ball to those guys problem was thats all the cards had.

They have always had a mediocre O line I dont care how big they are they still are just average at pass or run blocking maybe they need to take some lessons from denver who always has a good line. And you cant blame plummer for all the cards losses when we constantly give up huge amounts of points when the D played ok the games were usually winnable even if we did not win.

What are you gonna say next season when Jake does really well in Denver??

Anyone can see that plummer has made mistakes here but how much of that was lack of talent and even coaching, neither of which has ever been a strong point here. We will see how plummer does with an actual Football Organization not bidwills personal business.


Respectfully, if he had the best wr combo in league at the time....that should have been fine enough to not throw 20 ints....when he had those 2 receivers, he should have been able to wait until they were open, which obviously the best wr combo could do, and not throw into coverage time and time again...My point was...HE HAD TALENT....If you have 2 wr's and they were the best combo as you say, shouldn't that be enough to not put up the numbers he did...from a wr sense...How many qb's don't have half of the quality players at wr and ol that we had, and throw up better numbers. Well I'll name one, Jeff Blake. True his best years were with carl pickens, and kijani carter...hmmm sound familiar. sound like moore, sanders, and mcelroy or something to that effect.

Has Brett Favre ever gone a year and a half w/o scoring a td on the first drive? NO,..even if coming into last season driver was considered their 3rd wr, glenn (unknown because of quite a few things), and a rookie and a 2nd year player...That wr corps is about as bad as we've ever had here...besides the last few games...But favre never suffered..Good Qbs make plays...Period.

Would favre, elway, garcia, warner, etc put up as bad of numbers as Jake did here...with what we had in place? I think not..imo.

We didn't have a running attack for the most part..That is true..Jakes first couple of seasons or so we had a terrible line...but not the last few...Until the last half of last year...and still they did a remarkable job considering who was left.

Later plummer had boston...who many believe if healthy is top 5 wr in the league..and martay and sanders...

He had freddie jones last year..

My point is, he wasn't STOCKED with talent, but he had ENOUGH to perform well..quite a few teams did well or even won the superbowl with less (or more specifically had better qb play with less offensive talent...regardless of wins), i.e ravens, eagles, tampa bay, etc....

Plummer had enough to not put up bad numbers...so now plummer has more weapons, true...but he had enough before...There is no excuse for him now..

I loved plummer...I didn't say bench him 1,2, or even 3 years ago like many...but bad play after bad play convinced me that he isn't a great qb...He is average at best. Would I have wanted him back...maybe...with an open competition...But my expectations on him are lower. I've watched him for 10 years...how many games do you have to watch randy johnson pitch to know he is a great pitcher.

Plummer was sacked what an average of about 1.5 times a game the last 3 years...thats not exactly a bad line...Many qb's would KILL for his protection. Just talk to David Carr. What was he saced about 75-90 times last season? Tell me he wouldn't kill for that number to be 20-25 a year, like plummer had..Don't say that plummer escaped 50 sacks on his own...and that only he could do it. (You probably wouldn't... just taking the initiative on this one)

The defense, well part of the reason it was so bad, is because we spent our draft picks, free agent signings, and cap space to help plummer. We brought in coordinator, after coordinator, and qb coach after qb coach to find the right guy. He still couldn't do it. Remember Trestman? Yeah he has better talent at wr and rb, but also at qb this past year...and that is the key.

You are right, the bidwill's don't run a good orginization, but they have been getting less cheap every year. Even if they hold onto stupid backwards ideas. But the ONE thing the bidwills did, was pour millions and millions into giving plummer what HE needed. For whatever reason, it wasn't enough.

Respectfully, where in my post did I say he was the cause of ALL of the cards losses..I didn't say that..But how many times were we winning, tied, or losing by 3-7, only to have plummer throw a bonehead int, and then another. Far too many for a good qb. A good qb can get it done in all 4 quarters. How many times did int's get brought back to the 20, 10 or 5 or all the way back..Putting the defense in a hole.

A good qb doesn't have a coordinator tell him just to look at 1/2 of the field because he can't read defenses..A good qb can throw spirals over 35 yards. These are facts..coupled with my opinion that good qb's don't do this. IMO, I'm right.

What would I say if plummer did good next season? I'd be shocked, I'd be sort of happy for him...but the fact is, we gave him 6 years of bonehead tries to get it right. He didn't..History is definitely on my side.

Respectfully, it sounds like either you are still a plummer lover or a broncos fan..which is allright, but if you think that none or only some of these things are true, then you are seeing plummer through rose colored glasses. Can he turn it around.sure, but if I were vegas, I wouldn't put the house money on it.

In any case, there is NO excuse..I project him to be 18-18 td int with 3100 yds..thats what I think he will do...can he surprise me yes..If you think it is out of the realm of possibility that plummer did bad because he is bad, then all I can say is watch him this year. Can he do worse, yes, would I be surprised, no.

I can't decide how well he plays, I'm using my judgement. I don't care if I'm wrong, but history has shown me that I will probably be right.

I respect your opinion like anyone else, but my thoughts on plummer aren't...."whatever". Have a good friday night








:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

CardinalChris

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Man, he's not even on the team and we can't leave him alone!! Stats next year? Who cares!!! I'll take Blake and his stats for 2.8 mil over Plummer's 6 mil ANYDAY. Heck, I COULD MAKE THE PLAYOFFS AS A QB FOR THE BRONCOS!!!! Big deal!! Plummer never got any better. Does everyone realize that Griese (who they cast aside for Plummer) had a career rating 20 POINTS HIGHER than Jake? When those INTs start rolling in, Shanahan will prove why is a coach, not a GM. God save the Broncos.
 

IAMSANCHO

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I agree with Cardinalchris. JUST let it go. We can ramble on and on and on and on about Jake, but it will get us no where. Lets all just enjoy the weather, watch what the Cards do in the draft, and celebrate with victory beers when the Groundbreaking for the new stadium happens next Tuesday!
 
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