Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by LoyaltyisaCurse, Jul 20, 2019.
<sigh> So much ignorance.
To me it seems like more of a philosophy or way of life than a religion.
Exactly. An argument can be made that it's not exactly a religion, but if you fulfill the requirements, wouldn't you sign up for tax exemption as soon as you could?
I don't know. I have talked to two my ex-scientology friends and they told me they do have a concept of God called the Eight Dynamic which is supposed to be an existence of infinity via a "relationship" with the Supreme Being. They don't have a dogma per say but a set of tenants.
Philosophy or way of life has to do with the investigation of the meaning of life. Religion on the other hand makes claims of truth based on a belief system not necessarily based on reason or rational verses a faith in something.
If you're deep into it and are far up what they call the "bridge", they have what you are talking about. It's more a heightened sense of consciousness or whatever, not God. It's a bunch of nonsense to me, but it has nothing to do with aliens or any of the other ridiculous claims that are made about it. The point is the lead up to it. Admittedly some of the stuff actually does have some uses early on in the practice, but I can't imagine devoting a life to it. But that's because I'm biased about all relgion. I think many other religions are more ridiculous than Scientology. What I dislike is the preaching most of all, and all religions do THAT.
I’m most disturbed about isolating the disaffected, turning people against their family and friends, and proselytization. Although all of those find themselves in various religious (for instance Mormons in missions, Jehovahs Witnesses and door to door and excommunication, etc).
Generally I view religion as:
-Most have had some impressive leaders who have wrote good for the world
-Most have some good tenets that are worthwhile understanding and incorporating into a daily spiritual existence, even if nonreligious
-Most have had a hand in terrible deeds carried out in their name (inquisition, ethnics cleansing in Serbia, jihad, current evangelists in US, ISIS, etc.
-Most have had terrible leaders at some point taking advantage of believers
-Most believers never take the time to actually examine what they’re being told and why they believe it
What do you mean nothing to do with aliens? They told me specifically about members of the church who wholeheartedly believe and accept the story of Xenu or Xemu and filled me in a little about the Thetan Level Three teachings. I have no experience myself I am just going on what they told me as more than a decade members of the Church. They actually don't like to talk about it that much. It's a touchy subject because of their experience.
The two people that I mentioned above had a horrible experience after being with the Church for more than a decade. That's exactly their story. Forced to isolate themselves from anybody labeled as subversives. Told to stay away from certain family and friends. It got to the point where their relationships with family were destroyed. When they decided to leave the Church they were harassed by the Church at their residence, bullied by other members and they had to leave their jobs the church helped them get (owners of those businesses were also Scientology). They made their lives such a living hell that they moved away.
I'm not sure who you talked to, but the vast majority don't think that. They actually laugh when someone brings it up. That might mean something, it might mean nothing.
Ex-Members of the Church. They specifically told me when you get to a certain level there are certain things you are taught that nobody else gets the "privilege" of because they are "not ready". The official position is that they don't believe they are decedents from aliens as rumored. Plus, there are members of their church group in Florida would talk about it all the time at functions "unofficially". Again, have no experience but these are members of the Church that told me.
Do you know why they are ex-members? I have seen nothing untoward in all my experiences with them. And I have a ton of experiences with them. I've even taken a couple courses there on communication and marriage--and both gave practical advice without resorting to science-fiction mumbo jumbo that everyone thinks is going on there.
And yes, they are expensive and I'm not actively trying to do more with them. They are experts at preaching, much like the Mormon church. I think there is something genuine in their attempts to help people, but I'm not blind, a part of it is also to make money. And they are experts at making it.
They were members for over a decade. Basically the Church destroyed all their relationships with family and some friends that wouldn't join the church and were labeled as subversives. It took one of their parents on their deathbed to break away to spend time with that parent. The Church turned on them in every imaginable way. They were harassed by the Church for months and harassed by members of the Church. They were fired from their jobs. The Church labeled them subversives and felt they were choosing a subversive (their parent) over the Church. They tried to get them to go to a "re-education retreat" for an undetermined period of time in which they couldn't have any contact with the outside world except through the Church. It was a horror story. They don't like to talk about it much because they still have not been able to repair all the relationships destroyed with family and are scared the Church might still harass them.
P.S. I have no reason not to believe them. They seemed like very humble and nice people. They don't talk much about it, have never gone to the press, tried to write a book or anything like that. In their words they just "want to be left alone". I don't even think they are religious any longer. I didn't hang out with them or anything but had the chance to sit and talk with them on a few occasions.
I have met other people from the Church and as you stated and they have been nice to me. Same when it comes to Mormons (have a couple in my own family) and really nice people. It's just I have heard stories about both that make my toes curl. I have no clue if the stories are true or not. Just what people have said to me.
Every religion has that. But I’ve been around and even related to these people and not once have they ever said a nasty thing to me about my not being a Scientologist. Not one. And I know hundreds.
It’s all about mutual respect in my opinion, and the reality I’ve experienced is that I’ve been around and knew countless Christians who can’t say the same thing.
It's repeated stories like this that put Scientology squarely in their own class of evil. Destroying families as church policy is just sick and disgusting.
It probably has to do with where you live. For example, my two relatives we visit in Utah have a very different experience (intense following) verses when they belonged to the church here. They tell me it's not remotely the same. One of my childhood best friends that I visit also lives up in Utah and they had to move from Provo to Somerville because it was so bad where they lived. Again, he didn't have that problem here. He told me lots of bad stories about what happened to his kids. My wife's younger sisters also had similar bad experiences when they lived in Snowflake and went to school there. The cruelness and exclusion was horrible for her little sisters going to school there.
Separate names with a comma.