Rand Paul discussion

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by jf-08, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    When the entitlements arent even a blip on the deficit problem.

    Not saying there is no hypocrisy or that a move might not be principled. The statement of anyone who voted for it has NO principles is what I disagreed with.
     
  2. Dback Jon

    Dback Jon Killer Snail Contributor

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    Dude - that is already happening. And it is accelerating under Trump (who wants to be a Hitler, himself). The green light that he has given to Putin, China, Saudi Arabia, etc is exactly that
     
  3. LoyaltyisaCurse

    LoyaltyisaCurse IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...

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    Come one, Mein Drumpf only kept transcripts of Hitler's speeches under his pillow because they were teaching him to how to not be Hitler! DUH! MAGA!!!!! :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
     
  4. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    We'll see I guess

    I haven't noticed those countries to be doing land grabs or making aggressive war moves lately, you have?
     
  5. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    What's your definition of lately, because I can cite Taiwan and Ukraine just to start...
     
  6. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    I dont know about Taiwan, first I have heard of something happening there. Wasnt ukraine like 2014 or 2015? That was quite bold but within the context of claims, it was prior to Donald Trump being president.
     
  7. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    Notice that the right was much louder about ukraine intervention before the right was in power?
     
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  8. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    Don't deflect.

    And China has been coveting Taiwan for decades. What about the South China Sea?


    Wait. What am I doing? Why am I bothering to try to prove to you that China and Russia are bad guys? Why should ANYONE have to prove that to you? Where do your loyalties lie, really, BRR?
     
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  9. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    The claim is that Trump has given Russia the green light to invade other countries and you brought up a country that russia started to invade in 2014. How am I deflecting by pointing out that the invasion you are mentioning started prior to donald trump? It is in absolute context.

    Taiwn may be coveted but has China moved in on Taiwan? I am unaware. I do remember something about China posturing onto the south china sea again.

    I'm not sure why you are trying to prove that russia and china are bad guys, I never said they werent. In fact, I am clearly not a fan of them and see them both as needing to be in check which was also part of the conversation and what spurred the specific left turn we are on right now. The context of the conversation is that Jon said Russia and China have been given the green light to invade people and I responded asking who they have invaded after getting such green light and for some reason you think that means I am saying they are good guys?

    You clearly are not following along and just creating your own narrative here.

    Whos side am I on? Like...Russia vs the USA? Come on now. Maybe just follow along instead of making stuff up.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2019
  10. ajcardfan

    ajcardfan I see you. Contributor

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    You aren't paying attention then. China has pushed naval bases out further, closer to Taiwan. Past a boundary they were not supposed to pass. Russia has occupied part of Ukraine and has moved into Syria. It won't leave. Saudi Arabia is in a proxy war in Yemen with Iran, and has bullied other Gulf states.
     
  11. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    I'm googling Taiwan looking it up and all I am finding is them meeting with us and China being mad about us selling them weapons so I am not sure how trump has greenlighted china to invade Taiwan?
     
  12. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    Yeah, as I mentioned, I was unaware of anything happening with China expanding and attempting to invade. Is the boundry you are speaking of the south china sea? Because I do remember that happening maybe a year or two ago but it looks like at the same time, we are still supplying Taiwan to the chagrin of China?

    Russia and Syria have been buddy buddy long before Donald Trump. That entire conflict has felt like the US and rebels vs Russia and Assad for many, many years.

    The saudis have been in that procy war for a long ass time too.

    It seems the only new one is when China pushed into the sea but even that doesnt seem to be "greenlighted by the current admin"
     
  13. BigRedRage

    BigRedRage Reckless Contributor

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    So essentially, Jon is saying that Trump has greenlighted Russia, China and Saudi arabia to go ahead and invade their enemies and then the entire choir is bringing in issues that started happening during or before the Obama administration so I am not seeing the correlation here.

    Back when this was happening under Obama I wanted action and still do to keep these places at bay. Never made any argument otherwise. I was just responding to the claim that we have greenlighted the bad guys to go invade countries.
     
  14. Dback Jon

    Dback Jon Killer Snail Contributor

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    Just because that haven't made overt military actions doesn't mean anything isn't happening.

    And yes, Saudi is using American Arms to invade Yemen.

    Russia and China are moving into the vacuums left by Trump's foreign policies


    Both Russia and China are playing the long game - decades and centuries. We are too short-term focused - like the idiots who see snow in winter and thinks that it proves there is no climate change.
     
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  15. LVG

    LVG Who?! Contributor

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    I think it's more realistic to say that under previous administrations (not just Obama's), Russia and China were trying to expand and took aggressive measures to do so. Right now, both Russia and China are focused on soft power rather than power projection through military means. That doesn't mean, however, that Trump is not failing to adequately oppose both countries' actions.

    With China, they have always considered Taiwan a part of China ever since General Kai-shek fled there after his defeat by Mao in 1949. The reason why the Chinese haven't attempted to take Taiwan by force is that (1) they really didn't have the capability until the last 20 years or so; (2) the Chinese would prefer to do it peacefully; and (3) soft power is working in the Chinese's favor right now. So there's no need for China to man the landing craft and speed through the strait to reunify the countries. At least, not right now. But just to give China pause, we sell military equipment to Taiwan so they could somewhat fight back (full disclaimer - they would probably lose any conflict).

    Similarly, China has been aggressively building (or expanding) islands in the South China Sea, mostly for power projection into the western Pacific and to build a buffer just in case a shooting war erupts between the US and China. In reality, there's not a lot we can do there. About the most we can do is to send a US destroyer steaming past the islands, which royally angers the Chinese (they're called Freedom of Navigation exercises). But, in the past, we've sent US ships without warning and with transponders off so the Chinese had no idea we were coming until that ship showed up on their radars, and then hilarity would ensue. Recently, under the Trump admin, we've backed off that and will either provide advanced warning or will leave the transponders on. Take from that what you will.

    But Chinese soft power is really encapsulated in their Belt and Road project. I'll let you read up on that, but basically the Chinese are using their soft power to get military bases in the Indian ocean and build roads that will lead directly into Europe.

    I'll write more on Russia later. Work calls.
     
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